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Flax as good as Borage with PM?

#1

I was just wondering if anyone knows if they work pretty much in the same way. I take Barlean's Essential, which is basically EPO and Flax Oil, to help with the PM processing and testosterone blockage. But everyone here raves about Borage Oil - is there a big difference? Thanks!!!
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#2

Hi idreamofD,

Borage oil is the richest source (23%) of GLA (gamma-linolenic acid, an omega/6 fatty acid), and it's an anti-androgen. However, it's only available in capsules, and it's expensive. Borage is all over the neighborhood here, under the hedges, but it flowers all spring and summer, so there is no convenient time to harvest the seeds. I assume it's difficult to collect enough seed to press oil then, which is what makes it expensive.

Flax seed oil is a source of omega-3 fatty acids, and it does a whole lot of other things, mainly because it contains lignans as well:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=31581&highlight=flax#pid31581
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8960&pid=31566&highlight=flax#pid31566

I expect the two will work totally different when used with PM. Borage oil could be helpful, but only if you break out on PM, or grow facial hair on it. Most women can take PM without an anti-androgen. On the male forum, PM is more commonly used with SP, the strongest anti-androgen. I think Pansy-Mae is the best source for experience with that combination. Taking too much anti-androgens will leave you with low libido, weepy, unable to cope with stress well, or even depressed. I will write more on that in my program thread this afternoon.

Most PM users on the forum will not use PM at the same time as other phyto-estrogens, especially weak phyto-estrogens. Lignans are weak phyto-estrogens. So use flax seed oil with lignans only during the half of the cycle when you don´t use PM. Wahaika found cold pressed flax seed oil, which contains no lignans.

Flax seed oil can increase prolactin, at the cost of lowering estrogen. Both Ginie and I did well on it when we had enough estrogen, but no other source of prolactin. I don´t know what PM does to prolactin. If PM does very little for prolactin, it´s worth a try with flax seed oil. Be sure you´ve got enough estrogen though, so use cold pressed flax seed oil with PM, or any source of flax seed oil during the other half of the cycle, but together with another weak estrogen. Both Ginie and I used whole broken flax seed.

Another problem with lignans is that they inhibit aromatase, so they slow down the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. If that happens, your growth will stop, like MoK217 and Marisa Miller Wannabe experienced. Your libido will increase because of the testosterone. Since testosterone has no other way out then, it will also be converted to DHT. DHT will cause breakouts, facial hair, and scalp hair loss, in the form of male pattern baldness. So if you are using too much flax seed oil with lignans with your PM, you will know when to back out Smile

Good luck, it took me quite a while to find this out, and even then I´m not sure that everything that can happen is in this post Dodgy
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#3

Thanks Isabelle!

I had no idea that I might be hindering my process! I think I may simply cut everything out except my PM and MSM (with milk and orange juice, respectively) and l-arginine.

I don't actually have a cycle because of the BC, so I was going to do the on 3 months, off a month like Gcup (her results are my hero results! LOL) Smile

If you can recommend anything I may be missing, or if you think simply letting the PM do its thing with nothing else, please let me know.

You are so knowledgeable - Thank you so much!! Smile
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#4

Well, idreamofD,

Orange juice is an androgen: just don't. The vitamin C from your multivitamin may work better with the MSM. PM with milk is OK, yogurt may be better.

I haven't really given PM much thought. I still have way too much questions to try it myself. Just started work on the questions with experienced male PM users.

I like simple programs, and MustbeGcupbynow certainly hit gold. Just check the quality of your multi (enough B12), zinc between 12 and 35 mg/day. Eat boobie foods, and you should be OK.
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#5

Wow, I was screwing up everywhere! LOL. And still seeing progress Smile

So no more oj, stick to a multi, got it!
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#6

Got a great multiv that's actually for teen girls (seemed to have the highest amount of necessary vites for NBE). Was just wondering Isabelle if there is a list of androgen foods/drinks here somewhere? I can't find, and don't want to make another orange juice mishap...
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#7

They're not on here. The acne forum has the best list:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Phyto-Androgens-t185292.html&hl=phyto-androgen
and also for anti-androgens:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Natural...27437.html

Some androgens are dose dependent. Zinc is anti-androgen in the right dose, 13-35 mg, but androgen above 80 mg per day:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5&pid=10&highlight=SHBG#pid10
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#8

Thanks so much!!!
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