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The Breast Growth Hormones, including IGF, HGF and how macromastia happens


peekaboobs

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Posts: 54
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Joined: Jul 2016

#21
(24-12-2016, 12:58 PM) surferjoe2007 Wrote: Very nice, thanks for the update.  Though it's expensive you may want to try the IGF I linked too.  Most of the others are supposedly very weak.  Even for this one bodybuilders usually use the highest concentration just to get a little boost.  And since it can boost testosterone the anti-androgens are even more important with it.

My butylene glycol, DMSO, IGF and a couple other things arrived.  The couple other things are to mix with butylene glycol/DMSO and try on myself to test the carriers.  I still need to mix them up.  Holidays have been crazy.


I studied up on DMSO quite a bit and first tested the DMSO and DV on myself to test for adverse reactions.  Not sure if  it will be used in the future for her breasts, but it's interesting none the less.  The straight (and expensive!) IGF does sound a lot more potent.

I measured her bust at 42 1/8" today.  Hope it stays!

surferjoe2007

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Posts: 659
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Joined: Mar 2011

#22
(24-12-2016, 08:39 PM) peekaboobs Wrote:
(24-12-2016, 12:58 PM) surferjoe2007 Wrote: Very nice, thanks for the update.  Though it's expensive you may want to try the IGF I linked too.  Most of the others are supposedly very weak.  Even for this one bodybuilders usually use the highest concentration just to get a little boost.  And since it can boost testosterone the anti-androgens are even more important with it.

My butylene glycol, DMSO, IGF and a couple other things arrived.  The couple other things are to mix with butylene glycol/DMSO and try on myself to test the carriers.  I still need to mix them up.  Holidays have been crazy.


I studied up on DMSO quite a bit and first tested the DMSO and DV on myself to test for adverse reactions.  Not sure if  it will be used in the future for her breasts, but it's interesting none the less.  The straight (and expensive!) IGF does sound a lot more potent.

I measured her bust at 42 1/8" today.  Hope it stays!


Sorry I should have said deer antler velvet.  It's merely a good extract and not so dilute.  Even though it's not a controlled substance and not well monitored (it's pretty easy to get), pure IGF is sold only for research purposes.  But on the plus side with deer antler it's unlikely that you'll overdose on IGF unlike pure IGF.

DMSO is very safe and non-toxic as long as you're clean about it and let it fully dry before the skin touches anything.  It's the possibility of it letting other nearby contaminants into the body that makes it scary.

I tried both butylene glycol and DMSO today but I couldn't notice any immediate effect with either one.  I may have to try butylene glycol for multiple days with deer antler to see if it works as a topical method.

Nice progress.

surferjoe2007

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Joined: Mar 2011

#23
Found this: 100 mg DHEA raises IGF-1 30% in women with low DHEA but it also raises testosterone:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9876338

DHEA could be good in combination with anti-testosterone herbs.

MissEllen

Senior Member


Posts: 177
Threads: 14
Joined: Dec 2016

#24
Nice thread surferjoe!

Looking myself how to increase this too, so I appreciate this thread. Will look into the DHEA soon! Big Grin
It is IGF-1 we are talking about here, there are different kinds of IGF's.

Deer velvet value's of IGF-1 are rather low 
It also depends on the quality of course, top section has the most, followed by the middle section, and the bottom of the deer velvet contains the least amount.
At the very best, when you get the top part, you can get about 52.91 ng/g according to this study page 41 
https://yosan.edu/wp-content/uploads/201...a-Ilic.pdf

Nanogram (ng) is very little!
The conclusion of the study is also that deer velvet does not seem to be a risk for an increase in the possibility of developing cancer.

I looked at other things that contain IGF-1
And saw that Colostrum (first milk from cow that is for the baby cow), contains lots of IGF-1

If I read this one right, colostrum extract contains about 2.5 to 5 ug/mg (microgram per milligram). 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1148968/

The amount of deer velvet to ug/mg would be: 0.00005291 ug/mg

That is just a lot less :p

I do think that maybe you could buy higher concentrations of deer velvet say 100.000, but you would be paying $200 for even less IGF-1 than in colostrum

So I think I might want to add
Bovine colostrum extract to my nipples and alternate with the BO on my nipples with a silicone nipple cover.
After removing the keratin plug (with a quick swipe of alcohol 70%), nipple uptake seems to very high (at least for estradiol), and continues to uptake in high concentrations 48 hours after substance was removed.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article...ne.0115712


I think applying it locally might save some money and decreases your chances of getting negative side effects in the rest of your body of an increase of IGF-1.
I do suggest not using this longer than one year to minimise breast cancer risk.
Also I would not use it if you have the breast cancer gene, or have genetically related relatives who have had breast cancer in the past.
Nor when you are pregnant or breastfeeding.

Xxx

surferjoe2007

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#25
52.91 ng/g was the whole antler, not the more concentrated extract.

The extract I linked to is a 43:1 tip extract (if you get the 1100) but only 36.7 mg extract per dose.   So 80 ng, i.e. 0.08 mcg.

Pro bodybuilders use 40 mcg, which is too much for common use and will get them banned from sports.  Deer velvet won't.  They also use it every other day, so actually 20 mcg per day.    And they use 10-20mcg per 2 days if avoiding side effects.  These dosages also might carry unknown long term risks that we haven't learned about yet too.  Though as far as drugs go IGF seems to be pretty tame.  Probably why it isn't a scheduled drug like steroids.  Also that's the amount for athletes to build a lot of muscle and testosterone.  Not NBE.

Yeah 80 ng is not a lot.  I was surprised that they put only 36.7 mg extract in 2 mL (2 gramsl liquid).  Maybe I need to keep looking.  OTOH some bodybuilder got mild results, so I'm confused.  Maybe it was because the extract also has tribilus in it.  I found some other IGF supplements that also had around 0.08 mcg or 0.03 mcg.

Where can you find that specific colostrum extract used in the study?  I found colostrum but not colostrum extract.  The one in the study used highly toxic acids and a centrifuge followed by multiple chemical processes to extract, which I don't think you'll find in a supplement.  In fact it seems like they extracted pure IGF-1 molecules similar to synthetic IGF-1 and probably just as illegal.  Also IGF-1 is not absorbed through the skin.  You have to inject or put under the tongue.  

I found this deer velvet extract that claims 0.4 mcg per serving and has 60 servings:
http://www.antlerfarms.co/Deer-Antler-Sp...aQoddesMjQ
http://www.antlerfarms.co/Deer-Antler-Sp...aQod0YUBZA
That's at least a more reasonable amount.  Assuming 5-10 mcg per day is a bit extreme for casual use or NBE, 0.4 mcg may not be that low.

Got a good review here for joint pain, post 11/13: http://forum.muscleandstrength.com/threa...ong-Living
Person used 3 doses per day though (1.2 mcg IGF-1) and it took 1 month.
Tthough he put his parents on 1 dose a day for general health because they aren't athletes.

I'm going to order some, try 3 doses a day for male stuff and report back.

surferjoe2007

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#26
This one is a much better deal from the same site, wish I saw it earlier:
http://www.antlerfarms.co/Deer-Antler-Ve...dvt001.htm

3.4 mcg but only 30 doses and a little more expensive per bottle.  $1.95 per mcg instead of $5.80 per mcg.  I suppose you could break them into pieces for a smaller dose.  Still waiting to try out my order.

Btw I also looked more into the possibility of topical applications and it looks like it cannot be absorbed topically at all.  Not even with DMSO.  I did also try the other deer velvet that I linked to for my workouts and couldn't tell if it did anything or not.  I didn't do an entire month of it at once though.

surferjoe2007

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Posts: 659
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Joined: Mar 2011

#27
My "Review" of Antler Farms Deer Velvet
So I've tried antler farms deer antler velvet for about 3 weeks now.  Unfortunately I changed up a couple other things at the same time so it's hard to say what the cause was but I have way more energy, more restful sleep and better libido.  Supposedly IGF is supposed to increase muscle, decrease fat and improve recovery.  All only a little bit.  It's also supposed to help heal joints and improve sleep.  I don't have consistent enough workouts to measure small changes in my workout gains though.  My recoveries have been quicker than normal, but for all I know maybe I wasn't as sore as normal.  My weight stayed the same but I seem thinner.  I could have gained muscle weight at the same time.  I should have measured my waist instead of using a scale.

Others' Reviews
So I thought I should look for people with more regimented workouts and check their reviews.  I found a couple videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRkkyAFBBjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKkjEeMeDg
Though I think both received a discount for their review.
And in a blog (ctrl+F antler farms): http://tim.blog/2012/05/23/10-uncommon-s...20Ferriss)
review of the weaker pure solutions stuff post #16: https://thinksteroids.com/community/thre...134302210/
Checked the wikipedia articles and if you read the references it looks like some Russian studies showed great promise for deer velvet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_antler
Google will probably yield some more comments, but it's hard to find real reviews among all the mockery of the miniscule dose stuff (with almost no IGF) and sports player overhype (how do you even abuse something so weak?).

In many bodybuilding forums most people were using way more serious stuff like steroids.  In fact for them even IGF-1 injections were too tame, so a low dose IGF-1 for the possibility of a few pounds of muscle often seemed like a joke to them.  That's part of what made info hard to find.

More Theory
I was mistaken about IGF-1 increasing testosterone as multiple sources say it doesn't.  I was probably reading about progestin increasing both testosterone and IGF-1, not IGF-1 increasing testosterone.  So there shouldn't be major worries about needing more anti-androgen.

Also in an attempt to gauge how effective it might be I was looking at some more studies and other information.  It does seem to be a major hormone in articles on breast growth.  Including the general wikipedia article on the topic, and various biology sources.  One primate study basically showed the equivalent of 8 cup sizes gain from IGF-1 alone.  And in theory it should do much better when combined with estrogen/phytoestrogen.  I didn't get the dose on that IGF-1 study but if it was like other studies then they probably maxed it out.  Even so the tiny amount of IGF-1 in deer antler velvet might be enough for a half a cup size or maybe a cup, with many other health benefits rather than the hormonal problems that often come from phytoestrogens and progesterone.  And/or it could be combined with a smaller amount of phytoestrogens.  And besides IGF-1, Antler Farms claims to keep intact the many other growth factors such as IGF-2 and so on.  These may increase the effect a small amount.

Conclusion
So... I think Antler Farms deer velvet is probably a good idea to try for NBE, but I can't say for sure.  Perhaps someone would like to add it to their NBE program and let everyone know how it goes.  It is really expensive.  But it could be good for those who are at the limit of a mild herbal program and don't want to use more for fear of weight gain and/or hormonal issues.  And others with low IGF-1 might have trouble growing without it.  Though for them they might also look into good nutrition, DHEA, etc.

surferjoe2007

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#28
Btw the velvet deer extract used in the Russian studies is called pantocrin.  I haven't been able to find the IGF-1 concentration in pantocrin, I'll have to keep looking.  I did find that you can order pantocrin straight from Russia.  And there are a million bogus pantocrin on e-bay.

More general info here on deer velvet here:
https://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/docket...vol178.pdf

So deer velvet does seem useful but you have to figure out whether or not you're getting a good one which has been a royal pain.  And it's expensive.

surferjoe2007

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#29
The higher dose Antler Farms deer velvet lozenges arrived.  I may eventually start breaking them in half, but I tried out the full dose to see how it would be.  Woke up super early overloading with energy and my sore legs (from exercise) got better overnight even though I was practically collapsing the night before.  So I think it's legit.  It was surprising given how low the IGF-1 is even in the highest dose product, but maybe that's enough and/or the other growth factors in it besides IGF-1 also help.  These other growth factors are also linked to breast growth btw.

hannah

Still wants a bit bigger..


Posts: 1,286
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#30
(27-06-2017, 06:18 AM) surferjoe2007 Wrote: My "Review" of Antler Farms Deer Velvet
So I've tried antler farms deer antler velvet for about 3 weeks now.  Unfortunately I changed up a couple other things at the same time so it's hard to say what the cause was but I have way more energy, more restful sleep and better libido.  Supposedly IGF is supposed to increase muscle, decrease fat and improve recovery.  All only a little bit.  It's also supposed to help heal joints and improve sleep.  I don't have consistent enough workouts to measure small changes in my workout gains though.  My recoveries have been quicker than normal, but for all I know maybe I wasn't as sore as normal.  My weight stayed the same but I seem thinner.  I could have gained muscle weight at the same time.  I should have measured my waist instead of using a scale.

Others' Reviews
So I thought I should look for people with more regimented workouts and check their reviews.  I found a couple videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRkkyAFBBjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKkjEeMeDg
Though I think both received a discount for their review.
And in a blog (ctrl+F antler farms): http://tim.blog/2012/05/23/10-uncommon-s...20Ferriss)
review of the weaker pure solutions stuff post #16: https://thinksteroids.com/community/thre...134302210/
Checked the wikipedia articles and if you read the references it looks like some Russian studies showed great promise for deer velvet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_antler
Google will probably yield some more comments, but it's hard to find real reviews among all the mockery of the miniscule dose stuff (with almost no IGF) and sports player overhype (how do you even abuse something so weak?).

In many bodybuilding forums most people were using way more serious stuff like steroids.  In fact for them even IGF-1 injections were too tame, so a low dose IGF-1 for the possibility of a few pounds of muscle often seemed like a joke to them.  That's part of what made info hard to find.

More Theory
I was mistaken about IGF-1 increasing testosterone as multiple sources say it doesn't.  I was probably reading about progestin increasing both testosterone and IGF-1, not IGF-1 increasing testosterone.  So there shouldn't be major worries about needing more anti-androgen.

Also in an attempt to gauge how effective it might be I was looking at some more studies and other information.  It does seem to be a major hormone in articles on breast growth.  Including the general wikipedia article on the topic, and various biology sources.  One primate study basically showed the equivalent of 8 cup sizes gain from IGF-1 alone.  And in theory it should do much better when combined with estrogen/phytoestrogen.  I didn't get the dose on that IGF-1 study but if it was like other studies then they probably maxed it out.  Even so the tiny amount of IGF-1 in deer antler velvet might be enough for a half a cup size or maybe a cup, with many other health benefits rather than the hormonal problems that often come from phytoestrogens and progesterone.  And/or it could be combined with a smaller amount of phytoestrogens.  And besides IGF-1, Antler Farms claims to keep intact the many other growth factors such as IGF-2 and so on.  These may increase the effect a small amount.

Conclusion
So... I think Antler Farms deer velvet is probably a good idea to try for NBE, but I can't say for sure.  Perhaps someone would like to add it to their NBE program and let everyone know how it goes.  It is really expensive.  But it could be good for those who are at the limit of a mild herbal program and don't want to use more for fear of weight gain and/or hormonal issues.  And others with low IGF-1 might have trouble growing without it.  Though for them they might also look into good nutrition, DHEA, etc.



Wanted to reply on this..by taking Amino Acids we can up our IGF too right? I'm not too sure on this but I know amino acids raise HGH by stimulating that gland in the brain(forgot the English name)...IGF is part of human growth hormones or am I wrong?
 

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