[Dynseli]

Which hormone regulating herbs to take during menstrual, ovulation and luteal phases. This http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/14...1.full.pdf (Medline) gives a good picture of which hormones maintain size during which time.

Taking another look at this solves more pieces of the puzzle, with the newer information.

From the abstract, hormones associated with breast size: (my conclusion in parenthesis)
Days 5-10; 18-23: birth control pills
follicular: high IGF-1
luteal: high progestins (activating PRB), high estrogens (ERα), low androgens
days 18-23: low progestins (PRB)

for users of bcp days 5-10: high prolactin, high LH, low FSH (required with high PRB activating progestins)
body size has to do with breast size, but not in bcp users

Results section (some of this is from discussion section):
follicular phase: high prolactin, high IGF-1
luteal phase: high estrogens, progestins and prolactin; low FSH, low androgens
days 5-10: low FSH; high LH, high prolactin

Discussion:
IGF-1 explains why body size, excluding height, is correlated to breast size
high LH, low FSH

(Discussion section continued...)

(correction, bcp contains both progestogens and estrogens)

[Dynseli]

They hypothesized that GH stimulated breast growth and human height. This was in relation to their results that IGF-1 influenced mammary growth, but they hypothesized not human height.

different hormone levels had different results comparing bcp users and nonusers of bcp.

Days 5-10: High prolactin; bcp use
day 18-23: low progestins; bcp use

It cites a study that concluded that luteal swelling was not only due to water, but also to "tissue fluid" and growth.

bcp may increase proliferation, and duration of proliferation. It caused future proliferation after pregnancy.
bcp decreases ovary and endometrium size.
It says decreased ovary size pose less risk for cancer; and increased ovary size poses a higher risk for cancer. (possibly mixed results on this, depending that receptor upregulation allows anticancer drugs to be more effective)

[Dynseli]

Summary for nonusers of BCP:

Follicular: high IGF-1, high prolactin
Luteal: low FSH, high prolactin, IGF-1 not significant, high estradiol, high progesterone, low androgens
Days 5-10: low FSH, high prolactin, high LH;
Days 18-23: FSH, prolactin and LH don't matter;

Luteal swelling not only increased water, it is also increased tissue fluids and growth.

transforming growth factor alpha, transforming growth factor beta, epidermal growth factor, fibroblast growth factor, and SHBG also regulate mammary size.

[Dynseli]

days 5-10: bcp use, high prolactin, high LH, low FSH
days 18-23: bcp use, low progesterone

[rocketmelon]

thanx this is helpful
is it only for bcp users ?
do you think pm users should take a small dose of progesterone herbs or prolatin herbs to maintain a balance?
I've heard of Japanese women combining pm with other estro/proes herbs during menstruation then going back only pm

thanx for duh info =D

[Dynseli]

My last two posts had it simplified. The post subject for one is nonusers of bcp, the other is for bcp users. I'll edit it.

See the link at the top of the thread, it has the information. It is difficult to sort out. If you can read the charts go ahead, but I didn't make sense of them. If the posts are confusing, try to read the source link instead.

I'll try to clear it up for our understanding.

for everyone:
menstruation: high prolactin, high IGF-1
luteal: highest progesterone, (less) high estrogen, low androgens, possibly high prolactin

either days 5-10 or 18-23 overlap with menstrual and luteal, One of these sets of days is ovulation. This part also has some conflicted information:
days 5-10: high LH, low FSH; possibly bcp, possibly high progesterone or possibly high prolactin to reduce LH's other effects; LH and FSH levels don't matter at other times.
days 18-23: unsure of progesterone levels

bcp use allowed results on days 5-10 and 18-23

I may have to sort through it again for days 5-10 and days 18-23. Or I'll have to find another study (if one exists) to clarify hormone levels during those days. The results from these sets of days can be skewed, since the people in the study can have different cycles.

[Dynseli]

ok, days 5-10 and 18-23 appear to be skewed. It either doesn't line up, I could be oversimplifying it, or it acts like this due to receptor desensitization. I'd have to redo this entire post.

For everyone:
menstruation: high IGF-1, high prolactin
luteal: highest progesterone, high estrogen, low androgens, possibly high prolactin
ovulation as early as day 5: low FSH, high LH (progesterone and prolactin to lower LH's other effects)

days 5-10 and 18-23 not clarified
bcp allows results during more days

(corrected based on ovulation and days 5-10)

[Dynseli]

days 5-10 and 18-23 appear to be outside of ovulation. Ovulation averages from days 10 to 18. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Referenc...rual_cycle

Higher LH on days 5-10 means early ovulation and a longer luteal phase. LH is correlated with more growth if its high during days 5-10, but LH is normally high during days 10 to 18 (average ovulation phase). Perhaps LH may not be the cause of growth, but the result of an extended luteal growth phase.

From the link at the beginning of this thread, it says more growth happens during luteal, but growth can also happen during follicular due to IGF-1 and prolactin.

[Dynseli]

high prolactin is also associated with growth on early days 5-10

[rocketmelon]

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