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Start Now. Do what works!
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Start Now. Do what works!
March 23 2009 at 5:24 AM Wahaika (Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER

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Hello to all the lovely ladies who are considering a program.

Now is the best time to start a program. The best thing that I could suggest is to start with something that is known to work and to adapt it to your conditions.

Here is what I have observed works the best (in general and every condensed):

Greenbush 90 day kit including the fennel/fenugreek tea that can be made.
EPO and/or borage oil
Multivitamin that contains a B complex
chicken foot soup / gelatin
Massage fenugreek into the breasts preferably 2 times per day with a carrier oil such as olive, EPO, borage, and others, followed by 20 to 30 minutes of low heat. Either use fenugreek extract or steep (let soak) fenugreek powder in the carrier oil for no less than a week.

Greenbush 90 day kit which specifically contains fenugreek, saw palmetto and wild yam: There is something about these three things when used together than is associated with the highest observation of success.

Dosages for smaller sizes are lower than dosages for larger sizes. For example, someone who is 20 years old, no children, a 32AA will ramp up slower, have lower dosages, and probably will be at it for a long steady period. Someone who is 35 years old, has breastfed children, a 36A or B can ramp up faster, have higher dosages and will see results sooner, very likely in the first month.

You can overdo it in your first month and probably get some good success, but you may have to drop way down in the second month and start adjusting back up.

For 32AA, max dosages of fenugreek will probably be around 500 to 1500mg per day. Same with each herb.
For 38B, max dosages of fenugreek will probably be around 2000 to 3500mg per day. Same with each herb.
The rest are somewhere in the middle.

Those who do not have bellies or heavy theighs, etc. will do the best as those areas tend to suck up all of the herbs leaving little for the breasts. These women will want to watch the saw palmetto usage. There are things that can be substituted. Exercise geared toward fitness rather than rapid weight loss is great for much needed circulation.

If you have high androgens, you might try PM. I recommend St. Herb and no other unless you live in a country that does not offer it. I recommend their regular cream, not the nano cream, mixed with fenugreek extract from Greenbush.

This is not a Greenbush commercial. I recommend them because they use clean fresh herbs and their non alcoholic extracts are the very best.

If you want success, you need to do what works. If any are using something known to generally not work such as Vitex. You may miss your window, or perhaps you will need higher dosages. Vitex does throw a monkey wrench into things.

Wahaika



Author Reply
faith_love_hope
(Login faith_love_hope09) Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 23 2009, 1:14 PM


Your post just made me think of another question I had. You mention Gelatin, what kind of gelatin?

Thanks,

Carmen


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Start Now. Do what works! March 23 2009, 4:22 PM


Regular unflavored gelatin that you can buy at the grocery store.

Example:
http://www.amazon.com/Knox-Original-Gela...B000E1BLT4

http://www.buythecase.net/product/22685/...googlebase






This message has been edited by Wahaika on Mar 23, 2009 4:24 PM




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Felicia
(Login Skinnymomma) humm... March 23 2009, 4:55 PM


you really sound like you know what you're talking about.
A little about me. I am 35 years old 5'5 115 lbs 32aa. 4 kids never gained much weight while pregnant. just started my nbe journey oh about a week now. I do Pygeum&Sawpalmetto with cranactin 1500mg morings brand name is Solaray, More milk plus supplement that has extracts of Fenugreek seed, Blessed Thistle, Nettle Leaf and Fennel seed also I take the herb Fenugreek 1000mg and Wild Yam also brand name is Solaray the actually have a gaurentee on the bottle that the only ingredients listed are the only thing that has been added to the product.
Whew! These pills are smelly and some look like well I guess it's the multi-v looks like a horse pill! (lol)

At night I am thinking of taking the(Vitex)cuz as I have read from here it does work for some and red clover. Not really sure yet. How does geltin work and are you talking about jello geltin? oh and the fenugreek is it a powder that you use?


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lenas00
(Login lenas00) doesnt work? March 23 2009, 5:52 PM


Hello Wahaika,
You mentioned that vitex doesnt work? I'm a bit dissapointed Sad because
I too have been stalking this site before joining! I've read and read before trying
to comme up with my own program.
And I kept on seeing vitex (a lot) on the program pages. I bought it to try it out
as well as a major benefit to help regulate my period and horomones.
I read that it does that naturally, and I was too scared to take a cream with horomones in it.

Some peole reported that saw palmento can give you cellulite. I dont want to take a chance on that
so do you think it would be a good idea to massage with it instead? for example..
cocunut oil,and break a pill with the saw palmento, vit E. mix it in and use that as a massage cream?
Thanks!
your opinion in this would be great! also on the vitex part!
hope to hear from you soon!


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32dds
(Login natural32dds) Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 23 2009, 7:47 PM


Hi Wahaika,

You said : "If you have high androgens, you might try PM."

I am wondering why and could you explain this further.



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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER hmm... March 24 2009, 7:29 AM


Felicia,

I would say stop the vitex and red clover right now. Neither of those work for BE except for the odd exception to the rule.

Are the horse pills capsules or are they hard pills? How much of each ingredient do they contain? Can you list all of the things you are taking individually? Your stats would also be useful in trying to figure appropriate amounts of each herb to take. BTW, what size did you reach while breastfeeding?

When I say gelatin I mean just regular unflavored gelatin.


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER doesn't work? March 24 2009, 7:33 AM


Hello lenas00,

Did Vitex end up regulating your period and hormones? How long have you been taking it? That would be interesting to know, but vitex in and of itself has a terrible track record for BE. It inhibits the production of prolactin because of the rise in dopamine.

Yep, saw palmetto does pork some women out, but it is one of those things that you have to try before you know if it will do that or not. It is not beneficial for massage. I think that the best thing for massage is fenugreek. Coconut oil has never worked to the best of my knowledge. Cocoa butter and vitamin E did work for a few women but not too many. One of the best things to do for that is to add fenugreek extract. A better thing to do for massage is to use either fenugreek extract with something like aloe vera gel, or let fenugreek soak in olive oil for a week or two along with some EPO or borage oil. A good recipe is here:

(See the reply labeled "Transdermal Considerations")
http://beboard.proboards107.com/index.cg...hread=3029


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 24 2009, 7:37 AM


Hello natural32dds,

If your name is any indication of your stats, I would not recommend PM for you necessarily, but I have been a proponent of certain things for women with androgen related problems such as saw palmetto and mint tea for a long time. But when it comes to actually growing, some women who are in the AA size range (I should have specified that, sorry) have a harder time getting results. There are reasons for this, but my sole and single reason for listing that in this thread comes from one woman's experience that goes on in the last three posts (as of this writing) in this thread on the BEBOARD:
http://beboard.proboards107.com/index.cg...hread=4372

It occured to me that I have never considered PM for women who have high androgens, and it makes perfect sense that it would work because it is, depending on the brand, a very potent phytoestrogen. The reason for the correlation to high androgens is her mentioning adult acne (testosterone causes this) and that it cleared in three days.

So anyway, that is the reason that I suggested it - one woman's experience that simply made sense to me.

To be fair, it should be noted that her herbal program was not a strong one to begin with, and she changed it around because she did not want to smell like fenugreek. (This is part of the price to be paid and is actually a good sign that the herbs are being absorbed.)

Wahaika



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Suela2
(Login Suela2)
SENIOR MEMBER Saw Palmetto substitute March 24 2009, 10:11 PM


So what would you suggest as a substitution for Saw Palmetto? Or could some one just use the Fenugreek and Wild Yam?

I want to give this my best shot since I will be turning 40 this summer.
I already have an extra 10 pounds that I carry on my lower half, mostly my thighs.


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Antheia
(Login Antheia) Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 24 2009, 11:50 PM


Hello, Wahaika!

I hope that you are well!

I was wondering if in your opinion if you thought that fenugreek would be better for using with massage than a PM cream? Or would a PM cream still be okay to apply topically at a time separate from the massage, and then fenugreek for the actual massage? (In other words, if I massage twice daily with fenugreek, and I apply PM cream twice daily,would I most likely just stall?)

Also, I currently use cocoa butter and a vitamin E (enhanced with vitamin C) in almond oil, would this be sufficient to use with fenugreek extract?

I appreciate your advice and time!

~Antheia




Lenas00
(Login lenas00) Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 25 2009, 1:09 AM


Hi There! Thanks for the response! I cant tell you yet about the Vitex working because It has only been about 4 days. Though I will be doing a hormone test soon and will stop with the vitex for now. Though I was thinking more about using fennel instead of fenugreek. SO confused! there's just so much information! And Im still relativly new to this whole thing! Only about a week old to this forum!
I will check out the link too! thanks again!
___________________________
Hello lenas00,

Did Vitex end up regulating your period and hormones? How long have you been taking it? That would be interesting to know, but vitex in and of itself has a terrible track record for BE. It inhibits the production of prolactin because of the rise in dopamine.

Yep, saw palmetto does pork some women out, but it is one of those things that you have to try before you know if it will do that or not. It is not beneficial for massage. I think that the best thing for massage is fenugreek. Coconut oil has never worked to the best of my knowledge. Cocoa butter and vitamin E did work for a few women but not too many. One of the best things to do for that is to add fenugreek extract. A better thing to do for massage is to use either fenugreek extract with something like aloe vera gel, or let fenugreek soak in olive oil for a week or two along with some EPO or borage oil. A good recipe is here:

(See the reply labeled "Transdermal Considerations")
http://beboard.proboards107.com/index.cg...hread=3029
___________





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double_ace
(Login double_ace)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 25 2009, 2:23 AM


Also remember lots of warming foods, I can recall girls doing herbs getting good results with cayenne pepper which is VERY warming, so try warming foods.

I've gotten results only after 5 days, and i'll post a picture when I grow a little more.

GOod luck girls!


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double_ace
(Login double_ace)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 25 2009, 6:58 AM


Also, massage is one of the most important things


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Melissa
(Login Boobliss) Alternative? March 28 2009, 5:05 PM


Hi Wahaika! Thanks for the advice, I always come across your posts and I am always impressed. I have a question though, I was checking out the Greenbush site and looking at the 90 day kit that you were recommending. However, I reside in Canada and it seems as though the 90 day kit is not available on the 'international' site. Are there any alternatives you can recommend? Please let me know when you get the opportunity.

Thanks a lot!
Melissa.


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Saw Palmetto substitute March 31 2009, 5:20 AM


Hello Suela2,

Stinging nettle root and pumpkin seed oil should work well. The extra 10 lbs is really not that much, but it does tend to be a magnet for the herbs. I have noticed over the years that women who work out regularly do well. They keep the weight down, have better circulation and should have a higher/better growth hormone secretion that those who do not work out.

Wahaika



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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 31 2009, 5:26 AM


Hello Antheia!

I'm doing well, thank you! I hope that you are doing well.

I don't think that it is possible to stall from massaging alone. I think that it takes internals to stall. Alternating PM cream and fenugreek (extract?) sounds like a good idea. You could also just combine them.

Cocoa butter, vitamin E (enhanced with vitamin C) in almond oil, and fenugreek extract sounds good. Don't forget to heat up before and after massage, especially when using cocoa butter. You might also add borage oil to it.

Wahaika





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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 31 2009, 5:31 AM


Hello Melissa,

The best thing that you can do is to write them at info@greenbush.net.

Wahaika



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Antheia
(Login Antheia) Re: Start Now. Do what works! March 31 2009, 5:37 AM


Hi again, Wahaika!

Glad to hear that you are doing well; I have no complaints myself!

Thank you very much for your advice, I think that I will look into the Greenbush fenugreek extract and incorporate it into my program with the PM cream. I keep meaning to buy a heating pad! I'll also look into borage oil for massage as well.

Thanks, again, for all of your great advice and for your time!

Take care,

Antheia



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Melissa
(Login Boobliss) Breast Enhancement Blend Kit April 1 2009, 3:02 AM


Hi Wahaika...thanks for responding. Yes I sent them an e-mail previously and they suggested their 'Breast Enhancement Blend Kit' as they say it is the most popular product that they offer. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this kit; do you think it would be suitable for breast enhancement? I know that you suggested the 90 day kit for a specific purpose/reason.

My Stats:
22 y/o
120lbs
5'6
36 A

And I'd like to achieve at least one full size, any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the advice thus far!!

Melissa.


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Suela
(Login Suela2)
SENIOR MEMBER Nettle substitute for Saw Palmetto April 1 2009, 10:58 PM


Thank you for the information and suggestion Wahaika,
I found some positive information on the stinging nettle and it sounds as though it may help with heavy periods:

"Nettles are a potent herb with a long history of use. This herb is one of natures best nutraceuticals, containing protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, magnesium, beta-carotene, along with vitamins A,C, D, and B complex, all in a form that is easy for the body to use. The stinging comes from the presence on the bristles of histamine that delivers a stinging burn when the hairs on the leaves and stems are touched.

Extracts of nettle roots are reliable diuretics that encourage excretion of uric acid, but simultaneously discourage nighttime bathroom urges, making this remarkable plant useful for such disparate problems as gout, bed-wetting, and, the overnight urinary woes of benign prostate enlargement.

Nettles use a tonic of the female system goes back to the Native American women who used it throughout pregnancy and as a remedy to stop hemorrhaging during childbirth. It is considered one of the best all round women's tonics.
A specific remedy for excessive menstruation, it helps control and prevent hemorrhaging. "





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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 2 2009, 6:07 AM


Melissa,

I do not recommend the Enhancement Blend because it is equal amounts of each herb all in one extract/capsule. You lose the ability to adjust each herb individually this way.

You might ask them for testimonials of women who have specifically used the enhancement blend. I could be wrong, but the most popular does not necessarily mean the most effective. I suppose if one were to intentionally preplan to use equal amounts of each herb that it would be a good match. Whether that works or not remains to be seen.

Wahaika





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Goatwoman
(Login Goatwoman) Enhancement Blend April 2 2009, 3:01 PM


I started their new Enhancement Blend ( Pills and liquid ) and bought the Bust Tea. Started 3 days ago and have already gained 1/2 inch.

I might also say I have been at this 2 years. I quit a few months back due to all the pills. I just could NOT take that many any longer it worked but became so tedious and difficult.

Right now I take two of the capsules in the morning, 2 at night and massage with the liquid mixed with oil. I will start a cup of tea soon. I am also already feeling those feelings I had when doing the individual herbs, tingles, fullness and itching from growth. I don't know if every woman will get results that quickly I doubt it, but it does work. Been there for a while now.


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 5 2009, 3:16 PM


hello Waihiki. I know you have an affinity for greenbush products, but what do you think of wonderup? I know a lot of the ladies on here us it, and have had great results. Seems like it's the most potent herbal blend product. Thanks.


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 6 2009, 5:30 AM


I think that the blend of herbs looks good although the exact amounts remains a mystery. This is not good for women who like to control what they are using. It may be a good thing to ramp with. I would definitely recommend supplimenting with fenugreek (greek hay), goat's rue (galega) and other ingredients as premixes like this one do not allow the freedom to adjust dosages of the more active ingredients simply because they are premixes. As for potency, there is no way that they could be more potent than Greenbush unless Greenbush is shelving their herbs. I would say that the most they could hope for as far as potency is to be as potent as Greenbush.


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milani
(Login millanii)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 7 2009, 7:24 PM


hi, im currently taking wonderup if i were to add fenugreek and goat's rue to it how much would you suggest?

thanks for your time
milani


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 8 2009, 7:32 AM


Milani,

It depends on what kind of success you are currently having and how much fenugreek and goat's rue is already in it. You might want to ramp it up in 500mg increments each. Give it 3 days before adding another 500mg. You could do both at once. Do not exceed 3000mg total of fenugreek if you are B cup or bigger. Keep it at or below 2000mg total if smaller. If below A cup, like AA or AAA then keep it at 1000mg. The ultimate guage is your own feelings of growth which of course overrides all of that. You will need to experiment.

One of the things also missing from Wonderup is a massage routine unless they have changed something. You can massage with fenugreek and goat's rue batter that you make yourself with olive oil, borage oil, and fenugreek and/or goats rue powder, and possibly Vitamin E if desired. Steep it for at least a week before first usage. You should also use some heat before and then for no less than 20 minutes after massaging the batter in ( about 5 minutes).

Wahaika



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milani
(Login millanii)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 8 2009, 8:18 PM


Wow thanks for the fast detailed reply!

I am currently having sucess with wonderup pills and cream for massage but was just looking for something to boost me even more.I would say ive gone from a small B to a nicely filled out B Smile in 10 weeks
I am tender constantly apart from when im on my period so maybe i shouldnt add anything? I do also take protein, vitamins and star flower oil.
Thanks again for the detail.


milani


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laisegirl
(Login laisegirl) Wahaika, no getting same results as december April 11 2009, 1:14 AM


Wahaika, i have basically NO growth and I have been at this for a month. I know growth is slow, however back in Dec at New years i had growth from thanksgiving. The only differance i can see is that i am taking nettel root instead of SP. I am taking Biotin and Fo-Ti but those are for hair skin and nails. Back in feb i took a fat burner(i know that was REALLY stupid) and had not really been taking any herbs cuz i was waiting on spring. But i have been off the fat burner for a month now. i did start working out a month ago, doing a 25 mins combo of cadio and firming. COudl the work out be the differance or could it be the nettle root just won't do it for me? And could i take 2 nettle root during the day and take 1 Sp at night before bed? Could this help kick it in and maybe NOT cause wieght gain? I am just seeking your opinion. And thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Also i have noticed in some routines that woman in their 40s are adding GABA saying it's been advised for women of tat age. Is there anything to that?


thank you
laisegril


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laisegirl
(Login laisegirl) 1 other note April 11 2009, 1:15 AM


back in dec, i felt pains in my breasts druing this time and i feel none now


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 11 2009, 7:36 PM


Wahaika, thanks for the advice. If I need to I can supplement wonderup with fenugreek since I already have a bottle of it. How is goat's rue in comparison to fenugreek? Is one better than the other? I've never tried it.


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Wahaika, no getting same results as december April 13 2009, 5:50 AM


laisegirl,

GABA is used to crank up the HGH production which will help in the BE department and in fat burning.

If you were having results back in December with Saw Palmetto but not now with Nettle Root, then it looks like Saw Palmetto works for you. That and the added cadio and firming routine may explain it.

Since you are now on a cadio and firming routine, try adding back the Saw Palmetto. It could be that you are now burning enough fat that the Saw Palmetto will not put it on you. If it starts building the fat again, then lower it, don't remove it completely. If you are not getting results by the first half of your cycle, then you might bump the fenugreek back up but leave the fennel where it is.

As part of your cadio and firming, do some bench presses at 90 degrees, and then raise the bench up to 45 degrees and do them again. Then do flyes at 45 degrees, lower the bench and do them again at 90 degrees. Do only 5 reps at a heavy weight. One set only! There is one more exercise that you need to do, but I don't know the name of it. It is the finishing motion on flyes and you really need cables or springs to do it. It provides resistance as you pull your hands together. If you know what I'm referring to, do one set of those as well.

Wahaika



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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 13 2009, 5:55 AM


justpeachy12,

They are both really good phytoestrogens and galactagogues. They can be used together or separately. You need to ramp them to see how they best are used, but in general I suggest about 500mg per day of goat's rue and then bump it up if needed, but if one is taking enough fenugreek then only a little goat's rue is needed. I would say, for example, if someone is taking 2000 to 3000mg per day of fenugreek, then 500 to 1000mg of goat's rue would be a good addition.

It works great as an external too.

Wahaika



This message has been edited by Wahaika on Apr 13, 2009 5:56 AM




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laisegirl
(Login laisegirl) Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 15 2009, 6:37 PM


Wahaika

You said i should bump up the FG if i don't see results after starting the SP. I am taking it 3x a day(610 mg each). thats a total of 1830, is that too much for someone who is only an aa to start? Of would be ok to bump it up some and how much? should i start with just one more a day?

thanks for the advice on exercises, i will def try it!
Laisegirl


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g
(no login) in need of clarification and a few Qs April 15 2009, 8:30 PM


I'd like to introduce myself for starters Smile I'm 5'2, 20 yrs.old with 34A breasts and no kids. It would be really nice if I could be a full be or C, is that too much to ask?lol I've been doing some research on this and came across a few sites like Breast Success and things like that. Do those really work? What makes the 90day kit deal different? Another thing, if I dicede to purchase this kit will it come with instructions? I know it may sound silly but I'm a bit confused. Because I have smaller breats you say I'd have to use about500-1500mg per day. Is this taken in tea form or is it all combined with the massage cream. How do you make the tea and cleam? Can you add sugars/honey if it tastes bad? What is EPOor borage oil and where can you find them? Are these included with the kit? What kind of gelatin and where to find it? 23-30 mins.heat? How can I apply heat? Hot wet towel? What are androgens? What is Vitex? Does it come as a pill, cream etc... Also, I'm on the patch as a form of birth control. Has anyone who has tried this also on birth control? If so, how has it affected you? Thank You!! Smile


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 16 2009, 4:13 PM


Hello laisegirl,

Nope, you are right. If you are not seeing any effects whatsoever at that dosage of fenugreek you could be stalled. On the other hand, it also depends on band size, height, weight, other fatty places absorbing the fenugreek and whatever else you are taking with it. (Progesterone cream, for example, would offset the effects of fenugreek as would Vitex. I don't know if you are using either of these. They are just examples)

Wahaika



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Lisa
(Login Chibichan_630) Progesterone Cream April 16 2009, 4:35 PM


I just started using wild yam cream and I've been on WU for 4 months. If progesterone cream would offset results from fenugreek, is it a bad idea to be using the wild yam cream while I'm on WU? Thanks for your help!


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 17 2009, 5:13 AM


Wild yam cream is Ok. Wild yam cream is not progesterone cream even though wild yam is used to make progesterone. Everything A-OK.


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 18 2009, 3:38 AM


wahaika, thanks for the advice. I might try adding goats rue extract to my massage routine rather than taking internally. what do you think?


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 18 2009, 4:47 AM


"in addition to" sounds better to me. Goat's rue works differently than fenugreek internally so it makes a good addition since it does not appear to compete with fenugreek. It also works well as an external. Optimal usage would be both internal and external.


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 22 2009, 1:10 AM


does greenbush sell a goats rue extract? I tried looking for it but did not see it on the site


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 22 2009, 5:24 AM


Nope. They don't have one. Here is one:
http://www.motherlove.com/product_more_m...ial_AF.php



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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 25 2009, 9:43 PM


okay thanks for being so helpful wahaiki. the one at motherlove contains grain alcohol. Does that interfere with the quality of the potency?


This message has been edited by justpeachy12 on Apr 25, 2009 10:22 PM




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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 25 2009, 10:56 PM


The one listed above does not contain any alcohol. Here is a quote from that page:

"An alcohol free formula of More Milk Special Blend. Specially formulated at the request of lactation consultants, this blend of More Milk Plus with Goat's Rue helps women with special needs -- such as Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS), breast reduction surgery and adoptive moms -- to build mammary tissue as well as to safely and effectively increase breast milk. This formula is also helpful for women who did not see an increase in their breast size during pregnancy. This product does not contain any milk, dairy, soy, egg, fish, shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts, wheat, or gluten."

It could be that they create it with alcohol and then later remove it, but at least they make the claim that it is alcohol free.

If you find that this is not alcohol free, let me know. I only recommend things that are alcohol free unless there is no other alternative.



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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 26 2009, 2:54 PM


the formula is indeed alcohol free, but it has a lot of other herbs in it. I was looking for something with only goats rue. Do you think this would be a better than using the goats rue with alcohol? and why is it that it's better without alcohol? Does that ruin potency?


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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 26 2009, 5:00 PM


Wahaika, do you think WY has much actual effectivity for NBE despite that it has become known it's not a progesteronic herb as it was once thoguht? Do you think the weak estrgenic action is useful? I'd assume it's a waste since there are other stronger estrgenic herbs and the weaker WY would compete with them...


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 27 2009, 4:01 PM


justpeachy12,

Yep, you're right. If you want to go with an extract that is only goat's rue then I think you're stuck with some amount of grain alcohol as is common with extracts. Another route may be to get the herb and take it dry.

Wahaika

http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php

http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue_veg.php
http://marketplace.healthline.com/goats-...84261.html
http://www.midwoof.com/store/all-product...d_365.html
http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/cata...%3A2+100mL



This message has been edited by Wahaika on Apr 27, 2009 4:32 PM




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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 27 2009, 4:16 PM


Hello Moon,

That is the question that has had me perplexed for years. Those who grow the best always use it.

To say that it cannot convert to progesterone in the body with no understanding of how the body converts many things into others is somewhat narrow minded, but I see that claim all over the internet. I don't agree with it.

I saw one woman use it in the luteal phase only and she grew by using it that way.

So for me it's like my opinion on progesterone cream (at this point). The evidence on which my opinion is based is more correlational than causational. It could be that it provides something that nobody has taken into account yet, or understands exactly what it contributes. For me, it's one of those things like fenugreek was at the beginning - it just works when used with fenugreek and saw palmetto.

Wahaika



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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 28 2009, 2:16 AM


Wahaika, do you think it would be better for me just go with the non-alcoholic blend that has goat's rue, or do you think the goat's rue with alcohol is okay. I don't want to ruin my chances at growing. I don't think i'll go with the dried herbs b/c I want something I can incorporate in my massage routine.


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 28 2009, 9:04 AM


I think that the non alcoholic one is better for you for general health. I think that the alcoholic one is better for BE because it is all one herb. If you want to incorporate an extract into massage, then try ameriherb.com or some other company that carries goat's rue and make your own with olive and borage oils. For internals, maybe a good wheatgrass juicer could be used to juice goat's rue rather than having to do your own extracts. Straight juice would be far more potent than an extract!


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 29 2009, 12:48 AM


thanks for the advice. I may have to consider the alcoholic one since the single herb product is better for BE. In what ways is it better for general health? Also, how would I go about making the extract myself?


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 29 2009, 4:55 AM


Alcohol kills brain cells. The amount taken in an extract is probably not a problem. But as a preference, I try to recommend non alcoholic products when possible.

To make your own extract, you just put the herb (powdered preferably) in a liquid (like water or vodka or an oil) and let it sit for some amount of time. I've never done it, but I'll bet there are instructions out there somewhere.


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 30 2009, 1:43 AM


lol. I know alcohol kills brain cells but I hardly think that's a problem if i'm just using it for massage. But thanks so much for all the advice.


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 30 2009, 2:00 AM


I think I will try to make my own formula. I found goat's rue powder online for only $3.89. I will mix it in an oil. Any suggestions? I'm thinking apricot kernel oil maybe?


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 30 2009, 7:08 AM


Borage oil.


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linda
(Login lindeh) Re: Start Now. Do what works! April 30 2009, 9:49 AM


borage oil x/ do you think its okay if i use EPO? i wasn't so sure but i ordered it anyways ..


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 1 2009, 1:08 AM


Wahaika, I ended up purchasing the motherlove goat's rue extract with alcohol. I didn't know if it was a good idea for me to make my own oil just bc I'm not experienced and i don't want to do it wrong. I hope i made the right decision.


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Buta
(Login butadujo) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 1 2009, 1:10 AM


Im sure all is well Smile I think they add alcohol to make it dry faster or something, like how you use a little bit of alcohol to clean electronics because it evaporates and doesnt leave behind residue. im not positive though, but im sure you made a good decision Smile


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justpeachy12
(Login justpeachy12)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 2 2009, 3:22 AM


buta, thanks for the reassurance. so nice of youSmile


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Newbie
(no login) Just bought greenbush May 6 2009, 12:47 AM


kit #2 looking forward to getting started. question anyone ever use dermory st breast firming cream? I heard that it is supposed to help wiht fullness and firmness.


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Jessie
(Login jessiesgirls) Some clarification... May 12 2009, 12:50 AM


Hi Wahaika,
I'm new here and I came across this post. It's something I'd definitely like to try. For the saw palmetto, were you saying that women who have heavier thighs/bellies should avoid it? Also, by heavy did you mean that women that are likely to gain weight in those areas? If so, what can be used as a substitute for saw palmetto?
Jessie


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 12 2009, 6:09 AM


Jessie,

>>"For the saw palmetto, were you saying that women who have heavier thighs/bellies should avoid it?"

Not necessarily avoid it, but to just be aware that those places are going to be a magnet for all estrogenic herbs, like fenugreek, and that saw palmetto seems to make them worse. Saw Palmetto is not the problem, belly fat is.

>>"Also, by heavy did you mean that women that are likely to gain weight in those areas?"

Yes. If women already have viceral fat, BE will make it worse.

>>"what can be used as a substitute for saw palmetto?"

The simple answer is that for effectiveness, there is no substitute. There are women who use stinging nettle root, but the mechanism by which that works is more toward binding up SHBG than inhibiting DHT conversion as saw palmetto does. Both raise free testosterone but they work differently to do it.

Wahaika



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Mimi
(Login MimiT89) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 14 2009, 7:21 AM


Hi Wahaika!

I'm new (well I post sporadically) but now that I have more time, I want to pursue NBE full force.

I really appreciate ur posts, very helpful, but I have a question.

I have sorta heavy thighs, and my butt has a tendency to get big, depending on how I eat, I'm really slim tho. But I grow a lil facial hair (yuck) on a small spot on the chin. Does this mean I'm androgen dominant??

If so, are u saying that the SP should be avoided? I should concentrate on mainly FG?

Also, I'm a 34B, so could I start taking up to 1500 0r 2000mg FG daily? I'm taking a pill called luvtrak and it has both FG and SP in it (among other things), but I'm not sure how much mg it has of those herbs.

Thanks for your time, sorry about all the questions!


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Mimi
(Login MimiT89) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 14 2009, 7:24 AM


also, I've always had acne breakouts, ever since I started puberty.

I think that also means I'm probably more androgen dominant.


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 15 2009, 6:36 PM


Mimi,

No problem with the questions. I'm always happy to help!

>>"I have sorta heavy thighs, and my butt has a tendency to get big, depending on how I eat, I'm really slim tho. But I grow a lil facial hair (yuck) on a small spot on the chin. Does this mean I'm androgen dominant??"
>>"also, I've always had acne breakouts, ever since I started puberty"

It means elevated androgens, maybe high, but not necessarily androgen dominant.

What is happening on your lower half is that is where women naturally have the type of cells with estrogen receptors. If you have elevated testosterone, and you have fatty thighs and butt, then the aromatase in those areas is going to bind to the free testosterone creating estrogen which then binds to the cells in those areas making them bigger.

Saw Palmetto should definitely not be avoided in your case. You want to keep testosterone from binding to 5-alpha-reductase creating DHT. Once that happens then a more potent form of testosterone is going to cause problems and there will be less testosterone to create estrogen with.

>>"If so, are u saying that the SP should be avoided? I should concentrate on mainly FG?"

I think that everyone should concentrate mainly on fenugreek. Fenugreek and saw palmetto are different.

>>"Also, I'm a 34B, so could I start taking up to 1500 0r 2000mg FG daily? I'm taking a pill called luvtrak and it has both FG and SP in it (among other things), but I'm not sure how much mg it has of those herbs."

I do not see any ingredients listed for luvtrak therefore I do not trust it. I discourage the use of kitchen sink products simply because every woman is different and may need to adjust herbs individually. Pre mixes do not allow it. Also, there are some of these products that put things in that could make things worse depending on who is using it. The use of Kelp, for one example, would not be a good idea for someone with a hyperactive thyroid.

I think that for your size (age? height? weight?) that 2000 to 3000mg per day spread out, is about the right dosage if you have already had children. If not, keep it closer to 2000.

As for the big thighs and butt, it depends on if the size is more muscle related or fat related. If more fat related, then try yohimburn (yohimburn.com) SPARINGLY on the skin surface according to instructions. But start S-L-O-W so you don't get it system wide through the bloodstream. It is perfectly safe, but may affect the accumulation of fat elsewhere, where it is wanted.

For massage, be sure to use Borage Seed Oil and fenugreek extract or let some fenugreek powder soak in borage oil and olive oil for a week or two then apply it.


Wahaika



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Mimi
(Login MimiT89) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 15 2009, 9:34 PM


Thanks,

I'll buy some saw palmetto and borage oil then. The luvtrak stuff has ingredients listed on the bottles butt doesn't list how much mg.

If it helps any, I'm 5'1, 125lbs, almost 20, never been pregnant. Started puberty at 11. Haven't grown since 14. So its ok to start now, right?

I'll try the yohimbe bark on my stomach, I actually like getting the extra fat on my butt.

I read that androgen is converted to estrogen...so is a high androgen level a good thing if there is a herb that helps convert it?


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 15 2009, 10:48 PM


>>"If it helps any, I'm 5'1, 125lbs, almost 20, never been pregnant. Started puberty at 11. Haven't grown since 14. So its ok to start now, right?"

Yes, but what did you have in mind as a program? Be sure to post it. Also, be sure to take a look at Eve's program. You might want to try it, just remember it is a long term program.

Eve's program:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/482052/th...7s+Program

>>"I read that androgen is converted to estrogen...so is a high androgen level a good thing if there is a herb that helps convert it?"

It can be. The best thing to do is to start and then make adjustments.


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Mimi
(no login) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 15 2009, 11:22 PM


Well for starters...

Supplements
Fenugreek, 1000mg daily
Flaxseed oil, 1000mg daily
Borage oil, 1000mg daily
Fish oil, 1000mg daily
Hops, 1000mg daily
Wild Yam, 500mg daily
-tea
~fenugreek
~fennel

Foods/Drinks/Shakes
Soy protein shake/soy milk
Protein shake
gelatin/chicken feet
extra protein (fish, nuts, beans, seeds, ect.)
fats (avocados, olive oil, ect.)
carob/coconut (naturally have L-arginine)

massage with borage oil, fenugreek. Use heat.

I'll post the whole thing on the program page.


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Mimi
(Login MimiT89) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 15 2009, 11:23 PM


Well for starters...

Supplements
Fenugreek, 1000mg daily
Flaxseed oil, 1000mg daily
Borage oil, 1000mg daily
Fish oil, 1000mg daily
Hops, 1000mg daily
Wild Yam, 500mg daily
-teas
~fenugreek
~fennel

Foods/Drinks/Shakes
Soy protein shake/soy milk
Protein shake
gelatin/chicken feet
extra protein (fish, nuts, beans, seeds, ect.)
fats (avocados, olive oil, ect.)
carob/coconut (naturally have L-arginine)


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Mimi
(Login MimiT89) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 15 2009, 11:24 PM


I'll post the whole thing in the programs section


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Lisa
(no login) Wahaika - amt of fenugreek May 16 2009, 1:23 AM


Wahaika - I saw you response to someone else regarding the dosage of fenugreek... you said

"I think that for your size (age? height? weight?) that 2000 to 3000mg per day spread out, is about the right dosage if you have already had children. If not, keep it closer to 2000."

... can you tell me why it matters if you have already had children or not? I have not (am 37 - still hoping to have one someday).

Also, I am overweight - probably over 175lbs - but that does not mean I have big boobies :-( I am wondering what dosage of fenugreek to take.
Currently I am taking fenugreek - 6 pills a day (610 mg each) - which is 3660mg plus WU (so whatever is added from that). Is this TOO much? should I take more since I am a large frame/overweight?

Thanks in advance -


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nymph
(Login SaggyNymph) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 19 2009, 2:50 AM


Hi Wahaika,
Do other oils work as "carriers" or are EPO borage and olive oil the only effective carriers?

I have had fenugreek steeping in a peanut and almond oil blend, will this work?

Also. I take 600 mg fenugreek capsules. One in the morning, one at night. If I add a third pill, do you think it should be placed at night or in the middle of the day? (my breasts are around 34B used to be 36C when I was overweight and I am 5'8" and 130 pounds).


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 19 2009, 4:36 PM


Mimi,

What you have listed above looks good, but stats are important too. I did not see your program page. Am I looking at the right programs section?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/482052/

Stats are important because, depending on them, your fenugreek dosage may be a little too low. Are you taking massage into consideration? Getting the herbs (especially fenugreek) transdermally, directly is one of the most effective things to do!

Wahaika



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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 19 2009, 4:37 PM


Lisa,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...+fenugreek

Wahaika



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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 19 2009, 4:46 PM


Hello Nymph,

>>"Do other oils work as "carriers" or are EPO borage and olive oil the only effective carriers?"

Yes, I think Borage oil is one of the best things to use. There are others.


>>"I have had fenugreek steeping in a peanut and almond oil blend, will this work?"

As a carrier, yes. As a carrier that is as estrogenic as it could be? I don't know. I don't know of anyone who has used either of those oils.


>>"Also. I take 600 mg fenugreek capsules. One in the morning, one at night. If I add a third pill, do you think it should be placed at night or in the middle of the day? (my breasts are around 34B used to be 36C when I was overweight and I am 5'8" and 130 pounds)."

I hope you are taking other things as well. Your fenugreek dosage at three times per day is only 1800mg. I would say bump that up by one more pill making a total of 4 per day (2400mg). One more in the middle of the day, one more at night. (1-1-2)

Wahaika



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Vegangirl
(Login Vegangirl) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 19 2009, 8:02 PM


Wahaika I cannot find your pics or routine on this site or the American be board. Did you have successful breast growth? And do you have any pics?


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 19 2009, 10:19 PM


Posting pics of me would only serve the purpose of scaring everyone as I am a man. But my wife did very well with BE.

I remain to help others as best as I can and I am always learning something new in some way. Although, there are so many knowledgeable women on the subject now that I could just step away from it and everyone would be fine. hmmmm.



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Abby
(Login Abby5745) I havent May 19 2009, 10:36 PM


hey i am 15 and a half and so skinny and never can gain weight. i eat so much. but i have not started my period. i was wondering if there are massages or meds or things to do that are ways to increasee my breast. I really hope you can get back to me please!


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MrsJimHalpert
(Login MrsJimHalpert) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 20 2009, 12:01 AM


hey abby, at your age and especially since you haven't started having periods yet, i wouldn't mess around with herbs and stuff. perhaps just try some massages and eat healthy. try to avoid junk food which can throw your hormones out of whack. do some chi massages.


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wannabecee
(Login wannabecee)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 20 2009, 2:43 AM


Wahaika,

No way would we be okay without you here! We all learn so much from you. Please don't even think of leaving us!


Best,
wannabecee


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Mimi
(Login MimiT89) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 20 2009, 5:54 PM


No! Don't try herbs yet. You haven't got your period yet, so your still a kid.
NBE is not for kids because kids grow naturally.
After you get your period. your breasts will still get bigger.
Its not good to start taking herbs until maybe 5 years after you last grew naturally.

But they are things you can do now to maximize your growth!

Get enough sleep, 8 - 9 hours per night.
Exercise.
Keep sugar and junk foods to a minimum.
Keep your protein intake high. Eat stuff like eggs, tuna, cheese, milk, beans, chicken, peanuts everyday.
Eat healthy fats. Consider buying some fish oil pills.
-other good fats, olive oil, cod liver, flax seed oil, avocados, salmon, cod, coconut oil
Eat vegetables. Sooo important. Try to have a salad daily.
Keep stress down. This sooo important too. Relax, have fun! Stay positive! This is one reason why sleep is good.
Naturally increase HGH. If you google that, some good sites will come up. HGH is growth hormone.

You can try fish oil and massage. I massaged fish oil on my boobs last night. They are already looking better! They feel firmer and heavier! There is another forum with a whole thread about 'growth oils'. The fish oil is helping!

I use a fish oil/flax oil/borage oil supplement by sundown.
You can massage with lotion and olive oil too. There is a massage section on this site. I would go there before starting massage because initially I was doing it wrong, and my boobs were looking smaller. >:-(

Hope this helps!



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Mel C
(Login mcovert) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 21 2009, 2:01 PM


Wahaika ~~~ Please do us all a favor and do not go anywhere.Your posts have helped me a lot.Even though I never personally asked you a question,my questions were the same as what you answered.That was where many of my AhHa! moments came from.By the way,did your wife post her program and pics? Did she get to the size she wanted to be? I think it's great that men can be on here.Some men would just laugh if you told them that you were going to try to increase your boobs with NBE.Some would just say,better go get a boob job.Luckily,my husband is not one of those guys.He saw how determined I was to do this without going under the knife.He also told me that while my boobs were not the size I wanted them back to,that they were round and he could just not bare the thought of a doctor going in there and giving me another shape other than mine.He would tell me they were getting fuller.He was excited for me.One of his friends wife just had a breast job done in Feb.My husband said she had stopped by their work the other day and he said you can't even tell she had one done.She went from an A to a D.I asked how is it not possible to tell with the cup difference.He said,honey,you won't believe the weight she has put on.I asked why didn't she just do something about her weight? He said that his friend told him that she thought maybe it would balance the weight out,but she has gained a lot since then.The husband did not want her to have these done.In fact,he said for her to try natural HRT.See,word is getting out.These doctors make their money off women's self-esteem.Don't get me wrong-----if a woman has a mastectomy,I see nothing wrong with them getting breast reconstruction done.I just hate to see women go into it,expecting so much,and then they are disappointed because it just wasn't what they thought it would be.I believe if she had come to me to find out about NBE,she could have lost some of the weight as well while increasing her bust.
See,Wahaika,I would not be comfortable rambling about all that with a lot of men.You are needed here.I am not discrediting all the other knowledgable people on this board,but you count as well.So,what do you think about what all I just said? Take care and please keep coming back!


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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 21 2009, 3:17 PM


Abby - You better not take estrogenic herbs because you are still growing and these herbs are weaker than your own hormones, so they could stunt your growth, not only of your breasts but of your ovaries, uterus and other organs. What you can do is massage every day, eat a halthy protein rich diet, hypnosis/meditation and positive affirmations.


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Laisegirl
(Login laisegirl) Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 21 2009, 11:04 PM


Wahaika,

PLEASE do not leave us!! I have learned SO much from you (as well as others). Yes, there alot of people on here that have knowledge, but the more the better! SO, I am putting my foot down(bam!) and forbidding you from leaving!!!!

Did it work????LOL

Laisegirl


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 27 2009, 5:33 AM


wannabecee, Mel C, Laisegirl,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm always happy to help.


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Should I stop Greenbush?
(no login) 2 1/2 months and a boney chest - should I stop??? May 27 2009, 6:30 AM


This is to anyone out there. I started about 2 1/2, maybe 3 months ago with saw palmetto, fenugreek and wild yam (from the health food store) noticed some tingling but then all of a sudden nuttin. I have seen very little if any growth, a little before my period but then back down to nothing. I'm am a small 32-34 A. I really want to be a full B - mostly to balance my shape. Hips/but heavy and although I'm not unattractive I have a boney chest it's very unsightly (i also am about 115 pounds another thing that has contributed to the boney chest thing) I have been eating everything in sight to gain (especially breads and sugary stuff not just for boobs but for the boney chest thing) and guess where it all went - yep that's right I'm sitting on it - and the chest, still boney. This is so frustrating. Well. so I decided to go for a real program so i bought the 90 day greenbush - i started with 3 of each a day (fenu, saw, wild yam), now up to 4 day, and fennel/fenu tea once a day. I'm 40, no one in my family has boobs. I'm 5'2' small frame. Should I ramp up? Is taking 5 of each pill plus the fennel, fenu tea twice a day too much?? Will it toxify my liver? Shoudl I add soy?? Oh, I also take foti - one or 2 day but I take that to reverse the gray hairs - not working yet but hanging in there.

And, I am breaking out and get a tiny little hair on my chin, just one - does that mean i'm androgen dominant? I take other things for health reasons: pomegranate berry juice, certain b vitamins, and peppermint tea for photosensitivty - could these be hampering me.

Does doing arm weights or chest exercises make you smaller? I did quite a few last night and boohoo feel smaller.

Thanks Ladies - I know we are all going to succeed here. If it was just small boobs taht would be one thing - but the out of proportionate shape, cellulite in all the wrong places and boney chest are just killing my self-esteem. the irony is I am teh envy of the people I work with becuase I am so trim, if they only knew what lurks beneath my cute outfits - i have learned the art of camouflage!


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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 28 2009, 2:20 AM


Would you like to try something that will be a 2 year effort?


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Should I stop Breenbush?
(no login) Response to Waihaka - maybe i'm stalled May 29 2009, 5:32 AM


Hello Waihaka. I wasn't sure if you were responding to my post but yes I would wait 2 years if I needed to for lasting results. Actually I was just thinking that maybe I have stalled. I had only taken two sets of pills for the whole day today,no oil massage, no heat, and no tea and my boobs were a little tingly/soar though it's not the time for them to be i am about 12 days after start of cycle so shouldn't feel anything. So I decided hey these pills are finally starting to work so later in the evening I took my third set of pills, did the oil/massage/heat, had fennel tea, went to sleep for four hours and woke up with soarness gone - could I be stalled? If so, how do you unstall? Or do you think wild yam or saw palmetto is taking away soreness? These don't contain estrogens do they? Thank so very much for your postings. I've read many. You are amazing and so very generous!!!


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luv2live
(Login luv2live) Help! May 29 2009, 10:14 PM


I am 34 have three children and breastfeed all three. When breastfeeding (which I am no longer doing) I reached a small 36B. I am currently an 34AAA. I do not eat chicken or red meat. I do eat fish, beans, rice, dairy ect. I mention this becasue I have read many threads pertaining to red meat increasing breast size. I stopped eating red meat when I was eight, I wonder if this is why I am flat chested? Anyhow I have graves but it is in remission at this time, so I am not taking PTU. I also have a history of ovarian cyst and a few cyst on my liver. I have received some really great tips on noogling and massages. However, my question is are there any herbs that I can take that can increase my size without causing my cyst to increase in number or size. I have read that saw palmetto increases the size of cyst because it increases estrogen. Before finding out that I had liver cyst I did take BE pills but they did not work. I have these terrible visions sometimes of dying(of course I am not terminally ill-just a weird fear of mine)and the person preparing my body is joking with others about how flat chested I am--Scary. I want to have breast before I leave this world. I know- that sounds really shallow. Any advice anyone can give me will be appreciated beyond words!





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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Start Now. Do what works! May 29 2009, 10:19 PM


Should I stop Greenbush?,

Thanks!

>>"I have been eating everything in sight to gain (especially breads and sugary stuff..."

This could be one of the reasons that you are getting hair on your chin. Sugary stuff raises insulin which lowers SHBG which raises free testosterone. You might slow down on the sugary stuff, especially at night for a few hours before bedtime. Stick with 3 pills each herb per day on the Greenbush kit, include the massage. You can adjust up next cycle if needed.

For a boney chest, use weights and chest expander springs, along with protein powder, calcium, magnesium, and vitamin D (to counter the nitrate levels that the protein powder will raise). Work your chest muscles HARD, especially the ones that cover the boney portions of your chest, I am guessing are out from the sternum, and then when they are built up, stop exercising them and let some fat accumulate on the newly aquired muscle. Keep doing situps and any other workout to remain fit.


Do the following exercises 3 sets of 5 repetitions with some fairly heavy weight - you should even need a little help to get the 5th rep completed.

Bench Press flat and incline at 45 degrees (use a flat/incline/decline bench)
Butterflies flat, 45 degrees (will not be the complete motion with dumbells)
Cable Pull flat, 45 degrees This completes the butterfly motion.

The Cable Pull (I don't know another name for it) can be done with two sets of chest springs.

Here are some example of chest expander springs:
http://www.sourcingmap.com/five-springs-...27472.html

http://www.fit-senior.com/acatalog/Chest...chine.html

http://www.boxing-gear.com/acatalog/Ches...chine.html

I'll try to describe the exercise, but the muscles that you will be building are the ones that go down the sternum. You will need to find a place that supports it, or possibly construct it. Here is an example. Stand between two trees or poles that are far enough apart for you to attach the springs on one end and hold on to the other end of each spring in such a way that you are standing in the form of a "T" with arms stretched out and holding onto the springs which are attached to the trees/poles on either side of you. The springs should be loose.

Pull/stretch the springs so that they almost touch in front of you with your arms slightly bent then return to normal slowly. You are now back in the "T" position.

Does this make sense? If not, let me know and I'll try to describe it in more detail. The idea is to build your muscle by hard but short anabolic exercise and use amino acids in the protein powder (whey, not soy) to rebuild and enlarge your muscles. This will increase the surface area in which to accumulate fat which

 


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