18-12-2011, 11:43 AM
JANE,, your opinions about PM doses
September 21 2009 at 11:21 AM Snowflake (Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
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I have noticed your comments in regards to doses being too high and would like to hear your opinions about PM and why you feel that way. just curious. Thanks
Author Reply
Jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 22 2009, 5:24 AM
First of all whose brilliant idea was it to use 1000mg of PM/ day?
Dr. Wichai in Thailand did a 3 month study with his farmed cultivar. I have seen people put that study out and about on the internet. Dr Wichai a PHD in biology and one of the industries leading experts apparently does not endorse this as a course of action. He participates in business ventures with pueraria mirifica products.
None of the products he endorses to my knowledge contain 500 mg capsules and recommend 500 mg/ day. In Thailand they do not put 500mg capsules on the shelf only 100mg. What does that tell you?
Dr Wichai has participated in topical studies also....conclusion topicals work better with no systemic side effects. Pueraria Mirifica is safe but mfg following this course of action 1000 mg a day for bresat enhancement is for the sake of profit and the extent of their creativity...its a bad idea. You do NOT see the major supplement companies making PM nor do I believe they will ever make that type of recommendation. There are too many side effects, the FDA really does not like phytoestrogens in general. They get alot of compaints from women and young girls that take a hand full of a lot of stuff, end of with nausea, headaches, general anxiety.
PM tends to make women bleed. Folklore has it that some women menstruate up into their 80's....maybe true , maybe not. There are women that have had cancers of the uterous after menopause and large anounts of PM makes them bleed. It probably does not cause cancer, it may serve as a cancer detector. It sure scares the hell out of them. Why should a major mfg make large mgs of this stuff.........they are asking themselves for frivelous lawsuits....FDA heat etc. As women would'nt it be better for millions of European(decent) populations or non-Asia (decent) to use PM for 10 years before women elect to be so aggressive with PM?
Can you imagine when PM gets big how many sillies that will take this stuff by the handful and make themselves sick and complain to the FDA. At some point the little companies making with stuff and alot of them know just a little vs alot but like the novel idea....will get letters from the FDA with some guise to fine them and close them down.
Snowflake PM is relatively new to a Non-Asian populations. No one really knows what you are going to see with large heterogenous populations....its an unknown. Why do women want to be so aggressive with this stuff with little personal experience or heteriogenous demographic knowlegde. Really you are making youreself the guinea pig.
Most importantly PM works better with topicsls.......so if your looking for larger breasts........well you decide. ITS your health!
Tina Z
(Login tinaz408)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 22 2009, 8:09 PM
Hi Jane,
Thanks for the info, it was great!
I have bought PM twice and didn't take it both times, mainly for the reasons you outlined above. Even though I have done extensive research on PM, I am still unsure about alot of things. The people selling people today seem to only highlight the "benefits" of PM. I was thinking that 1000mg was way to much as well. I have gone on some Asian forums and they take WAY lower doses, and still got great results, which makes me think. They were taking 300-350 mg per day, meanwhile people have taken up to 1500mg of PM.
I really wanted to try PM, because of all the other benefits it had, not just for breast growth. I think for now I will just use it topically until I can figure out the right dose to take. I also would like a good company to buy from. One who actually KNOWS about PM and not just selling it to make a profit, which is hard to find nowadays.
One more thing, what is up with taking PM on days 1-14 of your cycle? Is there a correct way to take it? I know taking it everyday is at such a high dose it not good. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks.
jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 1:56 AM
You take it the 1st day of your menstrual cycle for 15 days. This is when estrogen is out its lowest point. This is to keep your menstrual cycle normal. If you take small amounts ...50mg/day I have seen medical studies where they use it all month.
Taking it "Bella" style only makes Bella sense. Courtesy of Bella.
High doses of PM lowers LH which in turn can lowers estrogen.
best jn
Butterfly
(Login Butterfly84) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 3:52 AM
I have also purchased PM but never taken it because I was so unsure... I may possibly be going to Thailand in the spring and would love to purchase some while I'm there. It seems wiser than trying to find a good brand here out of the many sold.
PM works better with topicals? Do you mean PM extract or any NBE herb?
I am also curious about when the best time to take PM,, days 1-14 or 7-21, or continuously?
Solitaire
(Login solitairian)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 1:58 PM
One reason why I didn't consder PM myself is that it has no history in Europe, unlike the herbs which I have taken which have been used in Europe for thousands of years. I just felt safer using what's been traditionally used in Europe (plus for me those herbs worked, so I never had any need to reconsider or be tempted by PM).
Tina Z
(Login tinaz408)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 3:10 PM
Solataire,
Wow, that's pretty ignorant of you to say you will only try herbs in Europe. Europe is not the only place in the world. Many great things come from other parts of the world too. PM has been taken for a very long time by women in Asia, and they seem to be pretty healthy and young looking to me, so obviously they have something Europe doesn't. Anyway, thats my opinion.
Jane,
I am also wondering which days to take PM and how much PM to take. Days 1-15, 1-14, 7-21, all month? You say Bella's method only make Bella sense, does that mean it is not a good idea? I am not sure I understand. Thanks again for your answers.
JANE
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 3:12 PM
The science says PM is safe. The science says aspirin is safe but you would not take 30/day...would you? What I was trying to say is very simple.......topical products are better for breast enhancement. All things being equal topical creams, sprays, serums etc work better than capsules. Using large amounts of capsules/mg is counter-productive. Too many unnecessary side effects and this behavior is just begging gov't to step in when this gets big and spoil it............that's it spoil a good thing.
Wild PM in Thailand is no different than what you are buying now. One thing I may caution is things that come in from Asia can be mixed with pharmaceuticals to give it more pop! It does not happen all the time but can happen. They would not dare to that in Thailand. The lowest grade PM goes to China....certainly they have a good rep! Right!
There are good brands out there. I am not making recommendations because I know your common sense will take you there.
jn
jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 24 2009, 12:59 AM
I am saying this is Bella's logic. It is illogical from my point of view. First of all bella's regime is 500 mg capsules for breast enhancement...not a great idea. If you do it as she suggests I doubt it will influence your breast size any greater. Most women are going to mess up their cycles with this approach.
jm
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Misinformed!! September 24 2009, 1:11 PM
That is not correct! Bella's caps are 300mgs each,, 3 times a day,,, 7 days AFTER your period started, for 14 days, and period will come a few days after you have stopped the 14 days of caps, have period and start all over again.
I have done this and it never messed up my periods,, like clock work.
Sooo, I don't know where your getting your information, but the above is not Bella's system.
Also, have you ever used an internal PM product? Where are you getting your experiences from?
Sure, its going to totally mess up cycle if you never take a break from it, you only use it for 14 days, and also starting it on day one of cycle will also certainly mess with cycle because your not working with your body's cycle, your working against it.
Sorry, but you don't really seem to have all the facts!
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 1:49 AM
I am a pm expert. I even know the leading scientists in the world. What's your point?
900\mg is a stupid idea! My colleagues have just informed me that in Japan they are taking capsules off the shelf. I have not confirmed this. Why because of the Bella's of the world......the excessive mg, too many side effects and too many complaints.
Bella has taken it upon herself tO create a 900 mg/DAY protocol. I assure you my 10 years in the PM field and 30 years in the medical field trumps you.
My colleagues mfg PM. You are not every woman in the world. Once again there is no logical reason to use Bella's cycling.......its not going to increase breast size any better because you are going to end up with lower estradiol anyway. High mgs push down lutinizing hormone......endocrinology 101!
As I said the FDA doesn't like this wacko stuff..........how long do before they cme knocking on her door?
From you own postings you acknowledge it has not worked for you! Nothing seems to work for you.
There are no scientist in the PM world or knowledgable medical doctors in the world that would advocate 900 mg/day............who are you?
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 12:55 PM
Blah,Blah,Blah,,, how long has the birth control pill been on the market, 45 years? more?
It also has many side effects, and the newer ones have even more and billions and billions of women take it and no one is spouting off about how dangerous it could be. And they keep making it and selling it.
And I have gained a cup size on Bella's.
And if Bella's does not work like you say, how do you explain her growth?
If NBE does not work how do you explain any off the women on this forum who have had growth?
Show actual reports then, throw it all down for us to read here,, all the negative findings!!!!
I think your just a want-a-be and blowing wind.
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 1:16 PM
Better yet,,, Everyone do a Google on Dr. Wichai, everything I found was about pertecting this herb from exploitation from other countries and the positive effects of it. Sounds to me like he just wants to protect this herb so no other countries make money off it.
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 1:47 PM
Come on Jane! I dare you to copy and paste. Inform us!
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Carl Ann
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 26 2009, 12:07 AM
WOW oh WOW...... So smowflake honey.....how's it goin my sista????
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 26 2009, 3:17 AM
S-Flake
I have a liimited amount of time and pateince. Your source of knowledge is this forum. ITS obvious you have limited formal education because your hardheaded.
I gave my opinions.......based on a stack of scientific papers about 12 inces thick. Many done by Dr. Wichai.
Clearly you have read very little and have no background in endocrinology.
My concern is safety meaning the high MG regimen for people with perfect health for breast enhancement.
As I said its a stupid idea.....when the leading scientists studying PM do not endore this and the female
scientist would not dare do it. It's true Dr Wichai did a short 3 month study on breast enhancement and got
good results with his cultivar.......but he does not endorsed this commercially. I believe they would throw him
out of the University as unfit!
Why do you think you know more than them? You don't. Not even remotely close. You are a hardhead.
The next issue Gov't once this gets more widespresd will take enforements actions to stop the sale of PM capsules. Gov't doesn't like compaints or controversy. The markerters, "hackers have burned it out in Japan.
In the USA PM does not have FDA DESHEA status. You burning it out before it even gets approved!
We know matter of fact topicals work better than capsules with no systemic side effects.
I said everything you need to know. YOU want to learn about PM. There are at least 50 scientific papers out there. Read them! Now your on your own! Birth control is a drug. Do you want PM to be classified a drug.
You may never be able to use it. Who is going to fund the millions and millions of dollars to get it approved by gov't...........no one!
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RomaV
(Login RomaV)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 1:11 AM
Jane, no need to be hostile, you presented some interesting arguments.
"We know matter of fact topicals work better than capsules with no systemic side effects."
Are there any double-blind studies that support this?
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 3:11 AM
There is one unpublished study done at one of the Thai hospitals. I do not have it.
The point I am trying to drive home to the people who seem is be either desperate or defiant is that high MGS of PM are unnecessary...period. If you are cost sensitive sit it out because in the long run there will not be PM for you once the FDA gets heat from the press. It will happen.
In Thailand only topicals for breast enhancement and no complaints to their FDA....that is what gov't likes.
The people in Thailand exporting high MGS.........for the quick buck have no long term vision, now their best customer Japan I am told no more capsules.
Can you imagine the US or Europe with women complaining that they are 60 or 70 years old and using high amounts of PM and starting to bleed or menstruate. If the press gets a hold of it they will twist it and distort it...why is the FDA not protecting us etc.
Can't we conserve a good thing? I have been involoved with PM a long time. When I get a call for PM supplement powder from a rinky dinky operation to made capsules for breast enhancement.........the answer is always No. Do i want the money? Yes! The answer is still always no ! You can not believe how stupid these people are and they are just followers not leaders. Where does that lead the consumers? We have been trying to get the big companies like Now and some others to make PM capsules for a long time. They are all scared of it. They are turned off by this breast enhanement stuff and petrified about the liability issues. Only the little guys with nothing to loose put out the irresponsible high MGS. Its as simple as that.
jn
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Tina Z
(Login tinaz408)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 4:06 PM
Jane,
Thanks again for the info. You do bring up some valid points. You also sound very kowledgeable to me. The most knowlegeable one so far on this whole PM forum. I have been cautious of taking PM because of high doses and the side effects reported by all these women.
I want to take it for all the other benefits it has, besides breast growth, really! When I was going to take it I thought I would only take 500mg a day instead of 900-1000 mg a day. Many of these companies selling PM are just trying to make a quick buck and really know nothing about PM.
Yes, Bella got results, but you will not know the long term effects of her program until some time from now. I am not trying to get those kind of effects, my life is too precious and growing bigger breasts are just not worth it to me.
If people do want to STILL take PM, what kind of a program would you suggest for them Jane? How many mgs a day? When to take it? How many days out of the month it should be taken? What cycle days should it be taken? Breast cream and massage, how often and how much? And so on.
Thanks again Jane for shedding light on this, I was already thinking this, but had no evidence to support it.
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Butterfly
(Login Butterfly84) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 5:24 PM
Thank-you, Jane, for taking the time to inform us. I do appreciate it. But I also have a few more questions. So are you saying women should just forget about PM? Are there any reputable companies out there that sell PM in the right form with the right dosages? Or is everyone just trying to make money? The company i bought PM from sells it in 100 mg capsules and says to start out with only 100-200 mgs, with the maximum being 400 mg per day. But I never actually took it because i was afraid too, because I don't feel like i know enough about PM. I have done a fair amount of research on the internet by googling PM, but became more frustrated and confused because everyone seems to have something different to say and I don't know who to believe.
You say topicals work better than capsules anyway.... what sort of topicals? Are you saying it's possible to have substansial growth using just topicals/massage?
I am very interested in what you have to say and I would highly appreciate your response! Thank you...
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 29 2009, 8:54 AM
I certainly would not forget about PM. Some interesting studies are underway for Alheimers, osteoporosis, hormone replacement etc.
THE most important point is use it wisely or prudently. Start out conservativrly. See how you respond, develope a comfort level. Accomodate to the extra plant estogen.
For Pre-menstrual women you can responsibly use 100 to 200 mg 15 days a month. Sarting the 1st dat of your period is good and using it 15 days is good because you can most likely keep regular cycles. There can be individual differences certainly. If slight moderations work for you fine. If you are using a wild material you can use a little more.....how much....maybe 100 to 300 or 400mg/ day. There is more varibility with wild.
Another approach for pre-menopausal symptoms is 50mg /day all month long. Several medical studies have been done like this with no crazy menstrual cycles. The problem you may have is that no one makes 50 mg caps
The most unique quality PM has that people keep overlooking is PM maintains ones appearance. When I meet someone that says they do not care that they will get old....I just walk away that goes against human nature...right? Everybody wants to look young and feel young its an up hill battle. They make a big deal about some souped version of resveratrol......well PM is here. The younger women are luke warm about this but you all can't be 100 per cent at that time of the month. I'm scared to death of Yaz...its healthy to menstuate probably less healthy not to.
For menopausal women, once again start out conservatively....don't start out at the higher levels, start out at lower levers. Get a comfort level. Since your body is not making estrogen any longer and there is no menstruation you can use a little more. The older you are be more conservative you should be...go slow...learn how it effects you personally. Menopausal woman can use 100 to 200mg/ day all month long if it agrees with you. If you use wild maybe a little more.
best
jn
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Tiran
(no login) JANE PLEASE GIVE US A RIGHT DOSAGE September 29 2009, 11:44 AM
Hello Jane,
Please!! What is the right dosage???? It is such a major concern!!! As we are all in my opinion a guinea pigs!!!
I also know that Solgar's dosage is 2x80mg a day. However, they advice it mainly for menopause...I posted yesterday somewhere her but as I am new I can't figure it out yet where did my message go...During last month i was finishing left over bottle of St Herb pueraria and to strech what i had i used 1/morning and 1/night = 400/day and i think my breast is a bit fuller, but i have like AAAAA...
So please advice on dosage? Also what is your background, endocrinology???
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blue_sardine
(no login) Thanks Jane, and a question September 30 2009, 6:30 AM
Thanks very much Jane! I've been on Bella's for 3 months now, but after reading your posts I'll be either quitting entirely or scaling back to 100 or 200mg a day and just focussing on topicals.
Here's the problem for me, though, and it's not going to go away: As a woman who has never been able to fill even an A cup bra, I am desperate to have breasts. Seriously - any breasts at all. It's something that I don't think a lot of people can really understand - many women on here complain about being small, but they can fill an A, or even a B cup bra! I won't have implants done, as I think they're a horrific thing that women in our society do to themselves to the detriment of their health, but I'm not going to stop trying different ways to MAKE MY OWN BODY GROW SOME DARN BREASTS!
I once went home with a guy (when I was 24, I'm now 28), and when I took off my shirt, he looked at my chest, smirked, and said "how old are you!?" Can anyone understand how that would feel?? That's not how I want to look forever.
Jane - you really seem like you know what you're talking about. What do you mean when you say 'topicals'? Do you mean the topical application of PM creams? Specifically PM, or is there anything else that's good topically as well, either alone, or in combination with PM? Will that make my breasts grow? Is it safe? How do I do it?
Also - snowflake - you've behaved foolishly on this forum, and I think you owe Jane an apology.
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM October 1 2009, 12:07 PM
really blue Sardine??? jane comes on here, rude and abrasive and calls us all stupid, has never taken PM internally and I am the one who needs to apoligize? Whatever!
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM October 2 2009, 3:41 AM
I have been taking PM for many many years, before you even knew the it is. You are clearly not the sharpest pencil in the drawer! You are way out of your leaguw...period
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Blue_Sardine October 2 2009, 2:26 PM
Blue_Sardine!!!Hi!!!
I know EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL!!!!! I have absalutely the same situation )))I am absalutely flat and I feel weerd! I am also 28 and had 1 kid, breastfed...but well, apart from 12 month when i was breast feeding (B cup at that period) I was always that flat ((( Well it is one thing being on a smaller side...and there are many sexy women and most runway models are small, like A....another way is thinking that you might shock someone if you undress ))).
I am kinda thinking about OP ( if PM fails) and found one site where they have lots of before and after pics...and there were some girls that had such nice boobs any way...why would they want an OP?? )))
I also sent e-mails to many London endocrinologists...many responed...and they agree that if it is usually NOT hormonal disbalance if your periods are normal...And i had my hormones tested (blood test) and it turned to be all right...then 1 endo. whom i hope to see when i get private insurance wrote me this:
Sorry for the gap in replying. I had to travel unexpectedly. The main issue for you is whether this is endocrine, i.e. due to low female sex hormones, or end organ insensitivity i.e. breast tissue not responsive to the sex hormones. To be sure you would need a full endocrine survey of the female sex hormones and some pituitary hormones. Firstly you would need to be seen to check on your histroy and examination and establish general development and thus the likely hormone background. There may possibly be Xrays and scans needed but we could discuss this.
I don't know..may be you will find it interesting ))) Anyways Cheer UP!!! You are not the only one ))))
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CT
(no login) Topical Treatment October 3 2009, 11:03 AM
As far as what I have read, women with smaller breasts generally dont have a hormonal imbalance and their periods are normal. It appears that the receptors in the breast tissue are just insensitive to the circulating hormones. So it stands to reason that topical treatments would be more effective because they directly saturate the receptors with hormone analogues through the skin.
PM has been successful with alot of women at varying degrees when it comes to breast enlargement and I dont know what the mechanism of action actually is. Alot of people say that it boosts your estrogen levels but it might lower your estrogen levels by competing with it for the receptor sites. If thats true then your body might boost its own estrogen levels to try to compete with the analogue, as a counter response. So when you stop taking it your body will suddenly be left with no estrogen analogue but high levels of natural estrogen and this might be what increases breast size.
Its all speculation but theres no denying that PM has a good breast enlargement success rate. Its good to develop your own routine if you plan on taking it and start with a small dose and assess its effects.
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) receptors October 5 2009, 10:16 AM
Yes, I heard it many times that receptors can be insensitive to the hormones.
I was just wondering what could possibly be a reason???
I am just worried whether endocrinologist can address this problem somehow...I worry after getting from me quite big money for all this tests they will just tell me this old story how we are all different and how I was ment to be flat )))
About topicals: I know that it is a big hussle in cosmetic industry to create carriers of active ingridients that go beyond superficial level of skin....therefore i wonder how active ingridients of PM end up reaching this receptors that obviously don't sit on the top of the skin ???
Can someone with appropriate background share their view on these?
Thanks
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) doses of M October 5 2009, 10:29 AM
y the way received answer from Mirifem regarding their PM...It proves again Jane's point about the right dosage and farmed vs wild PM issue...
May be it will be interesting to some of you )))
Thank you for your interest in our products.
The Pueraria mirifica we used are wild harvested and then further processed
into an extract. This is followed up by a lab test to ensure the extract is
safe and contains a good amount of active compounds so that it will be
effective. We have done this since 2006.
In the past, we were using just dried Pueraria mirifica (powdered) and we
notice that customer's results vary because the active compounds present
changes with different harvesting seasons. There are also some harvesters
that mix in other type of Pueraria that resembles Pueraria mirifica(PM) but
simply do not contain any of the active compounds that PM have.
Each of our Caplet contains 50mg of PM. Our dosage of 50-100mg daily
conforms to that of studies done by several Thai Universities. In a
nutshell, when the correct species of PM is used, 50-100mg daily is
effective and safe. (excessive usage could cause side effects like
headaches/dizziness probably related to hormonal imbalance)
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blue_sardine
(no login) Hi Tiran1 October 6 2009, 2:09 AM
Hey Tiran1 - thanks for the wonderful info, and for sharing the email from that endocrinologist with us! I'm glad I'm not the only one like me on the forum! I might start emailing some endocrinologists myself and see what they say and how much testing would cost for me. I'll keep you guys posted on what happens.
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chloespeaks
(Login chloespeaks) Endocrinologically speaking... November 1 2009, 7:55 PM
Blue Sardine and Tiran1: I'm new here so I don't mean to be rude. I am enjoying your posts and it is helping my research as well for my own pursuit of larger breasts (which are A/AA, quite small), but I can't help but comment on the tone. There really IS NOTHING wrong with you hormonally speaking. The size of a woman's breasts, physically speaking, have nothing to do with biologic function. You should definitely know this Tiran1 as you had a kid and breastfed successfully. I think it is as you two have said, us small boobied women don't have great receptors for hormones in the way of growing. I know a few big breasted women which had such a hard time breastfeeding that they didn't do it at all.
So no amount of expensive testing with endicrinologists will change things the "natural" way. I myself tried herbs with no luck. I also tried Bovine Ovary, another hormone type supplement, to try to change my breast size. Nothing. I am now using vacuum type system called the Noogleberry - everyone who has stuck with it on that forum has has SOME result, but it takes alot of patience. A few have been saying that using the vacuum suction PLUS small doses of PM together have helped tremendously, which is why I am here.
With vacuum, it doesn't matter about your genetic receptors. It's like exercising; continual suction of that tissue will eventually cause results. Do some googling on it and check it out!
Blue Sardine, I am sorry that that guy said such a mean thing to you. I understand how you feel. Once in my early twenties, I had a guy I had a big crush on (just a flirtation), who actually was a friend of my boyfriend say to me in front of everyone, many times. "Chloe is the hottest most perfect girl except that she's flat" Yeah.
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Chloespeaks November 2 2009, 9:48 AM
Hi!
I do agree with you, you are right in a way...
I also talked with one endocrinologist and she said that all this 'receptors don't respond' concept is rubbish as I perfectly demonstrated with my example...my body knew that I had a baby and produced milk (a hell amount of it actually)...so my breast's receptors were responsive to the hormones.Basta!! Then it is unrealistic to say that I have no breast because they are not responsive to some other hormones that would make it grow. And all my female hormones are 100% perfect!
As I mentioned before I got private insurance-let them work for their money...Because sometimes I think ''Oh no, there is sth wrong with me otherwise WHY I AM FLAT''. So I just want to take all this thoughts out of my way!
All women in my family do have LARGE breast and I have none...
Also when I was like 15-16 I was developing nicely (it was clear that I would have B-C cup) and then I went on this ''carrot only'' diet and didn't have periods for sometime and Bingo-no boobs! And now when I gained all the weight, not even a gram went to that department!
It is just so interesting why ( from medical view point)some women have AAA and AAAA? I am not talking about girls with A cup, that is absolutely normal to me. But why some are just flat like me? I just want to know what are the possible reason for it? Because i think everything can be explained...Hence, my decision to have tests done
And please don't get me wrong- I don't sit all day thinking about it..I do have life ))) It's just this forum is about this issue and that is why I speak about it here. I also feel that you, girls, will better understand me as my big-breasted friends think that for ex. stretch marks and cellulite, and flabby tummy is worse...may be they are right but I want some cleavage )))))That's all ))
cheers!
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annj
(Login ann1965) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM November 2 2009, 12:34 PM
Young ladies. You really need to get an real education. You would be self sufficient.
Receptor problems....what do you thing receptors are? You don't know. They are under a lot of hormonal and chemical controls that make them work. Who knows what's wrong with you flat chested wenches except your you seem to be mean spirited and extremely simple.
Can anyone spell B-i-m-b-o?
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) annj November 3 2009, 9:35 AM
Hi!
You ,annj, have such a logic and need indeed''an education'' so you can feel sufficient without calling anyone bimbo!!!
Bad news for you, annj, I have phd in economics...no kidding..from LSE - one of the best universities in London...
so please , unless you have something clever to say or ask, don't post your messages, just read them!
What is next?
calling all those who take showers everyday and shave their legs a bimbo?
Or you suggest just popping pills brainlessly without trying to understand what it doeas to your body???
And who is bad spirited here apart from you, annj??? And what do YOU know about receptors??
And by the way, many will agree with me , that even medicine is not exact science, that is why different doctors have different opinions and thera are such paradoxes as 'placebo pill paradox' and many others....It means we don't know everything!!!as a mass!!!
Good luck annj!
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Salome83
(no login) tiran1 November 4 2009, 6:35 AM
Hey Tiran, sorry it is out of topic, but I just wanted to share that I am doing my PhD of Economics as well in New York! trying to finish my dissertation that's why i can't participate to forum that much but it is a good break from studying for me to follow the forum.
Now I have an interesting regression idea, seems like there is a significant relation between the boob size and IQ
I am just kidding but it would be interesting to run a regression of this if we can find the data!
ps: i agree with you about annj, i think she is just here trying to attract some attention by writing aggressive and assaultive statements.(guess she has problem in getting attention in real life with her 36E bust size and most probably flat butt ahahahaha
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annj1965
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM November 4 2009, 12:13 PM
economics huh...........pretty worthless and useless in the world of the biological sciences.
my butt is as fine as my breasts
36 e don't you wish you were me!
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blue_sardine
(no login) annj November 4 2009, 4:56 PM
Annj!
Gorgeous! Lovely! Nothing like a bit of vitriol to spice things up on a community forum. I'm so glad that you graced us with your presence - please spew more bile on me now! I'm feeling deserving...Hahahaha!
Thanks - I needed a good giggle, you vicious old fool...
Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Salome November 5 2009, 9:36 AM
Hey Salome,
Actually we can do this study on this forum )))) random members will take on-line IQ test and submit their measurement prior PM usage )))could be interesting. However similar study has been done already, believe it or not, and it showed that smaller breasted women had higher IQ. Unfortunately, they made a hint that it could be due to higher testerone level (i don't agree)...it is a man world out there, ha? Also if my male peers want to complement me they very often say that I have a ''male logic''-a good thing in this context. )))No seriously- I read this study like 7 years ago, i remember I used it for sometime to comfort me..
But as I mention before my all family have large breast and they are all very intelligent so I wouldn't take this study seriously...i better gain some cleavage myself )))
September 21 2009 at 11:21 AM Snowflake (Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have noticed your comments in regards to doses being too high and would like to hear your opinions about PM and why you feel that way. just curious. Thanks
Author Reply
Jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 22 2009, 5:24 AM
First of all whose brilliant idea was it to use 1000mg of PM/ day?
Dr. Wichai in Thailand did a 3 month study with his farmed cultivar. I have seen people put that study out and about on the internet. Dr Wichai a PHD in biology and one of the industries leading experts apparently does not endorse this as a course of action. He participates in business ventures with pueraria mirifica products.
None of the products he endorses to my knowledge contain 500 mg capsules and recommend 500 mg/ day. In Thailand they do not put 500mg capsules on the shelf only 100mg. What does that tell you?
Dr Wichai has participated in topical studies also....conclusion topicals work better with no systemic side effects. Pueraria Mirifica is safe but mfg following this course of action 1000 mg a day for bresat enhancement is for the sake of profit and the extent of their creativity...its a bad idea. You do NOT see the major supplement companies making PM nor do I believe they will ever make that type of recommendation. There are too many side effects, the FDA really does not like phytoestrogens in general. They get alot of compaints from women and young girls that take a hand full of a lot of stuff, end of with nausea, headaches, general anxiety.
PM tends to make women bleed. Folklore has it that some women menstruate up into their 80's....maybe true , maybe not. There are women that have had cancers of the uterous after menopause and large anounts of PM makes them bleed. It probably does not cause cancer, it may serve as a cancer detector. It sure scares the hell out of them. Why should a major mfg make large mgs of this stuff.........they are asking themselves for frivelous lawsuits....FDA heat etc. As women would'nt it be better for millions of European(decent) populations or non-Asia (decent) to use PM for 10 years before women elect to be so aggressive with PM?
Can you imagine when PM gets big how many sillies that will take this stuff by the handful and make themselves sick and complain to the FDA. At some point the little companies making with stuff and alot of them know just a little vs alot but like the novel idea....will get letters from the FDA with some guise to fine them and close them down.
Snowflake PM is relatively new to a Non-Asian populations. No one really knows what you are going to see with large heterogenous populations....its an unknown. Why do women want to be so aggressive with this stuff with little personal experience or heteriogenous demographic knowlegde. Really you are making youreself the guinea pig.
Most importantly PM works better with topicsls.......so if your looking for larger breasts........well you decide. ITS your health!
Tina Z
(Login tinaz408)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 22 2009, 8:09 PM
Hi Jane,
Thanks for the info, it was great!
I have bought PM twice and didn't take it both times, mainly for the reasons you outlined above. Even though I have done extensive research on PM, I am still unsure about alot of things. The people selling people today seem to only highlight the "benefits" of PM. I was thinking that 1000mg was way to much as well. I have gone on some Asian forums and they take WAY lower doses, and still got great results, which makes me think. They were taking 300-350 mg per day, meanwhile people have taken up to 1500mg of PM.
I really wanted to try PM, because of all the other benefits it had, not just for breast growth. I think for now I will just use it topically until I can figure out the right dose to take. I also would like a good company to buy from. One who actually KNOWS about PM and not just selling it to make a profit, which is hard to find nowadays.
One more thing, what is up with taking PM on days 1-14 of your cycle? Is there a correct way to take it? I know taking it everyday is at such a high dose it not good. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks.
jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 1:56 AM
You take it the 1st day of your menstrual cycle for 15 days. This is when estrogen is out its lowest point. This is to keep your menstrual cycle normal. If you take small amounts ...50mg/day I have seen medical studies where they use it all month.
Taking it "Bella" style only makes Bella sense. Courtesy of Bella.
High doses of PM lowers LH which in turn can lowers estrogen.
best jn
Butterfly
(Login Butterfly84) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 3:52 AM
I have also purchased PM but never taken it because I was so unsure... I may possibly be going to Thailand in the spring and would love to purchase some while I'm there. It seems wiser than trying to find a good brand here out of the many sold.
PM works better with topicals? Do you mean PM extract or any NBE herb?
I am also curious about when the best time to take PM,, days 1-14 or 7-21, or continuously?
Solitaire
(Login solitairian)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 1:58 PM
One reason why I didn't consder PM myself is that it has no history in Europe, unlike the herbs which I have taken which have been used in Europe for thousands of years. I just felt safer using what's been traditionally used in Europe (plus for me those herbs worked, so I never had any need to reconsider or be tempted by PM).
Tina Z
(Login tinaz408)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 3:10 PM
Solataire,
Wow, that's pretty ignorant of you to say you will only try herbs in Europe. Europe is not the only place in the world. Many great things come from other parts of the world too. PM has been taken for a very long time by women in Asia, and they seem to be pretty healthy and young looking to me, so obviously they have something Europe doesn't. Anyway, thats my opinion.
Jane,
I am also wondering which days to take PM and how much PM to take. Days 1-15, 1-14, 7-21, all month? You say Bella's method only make Bella sense, does that mean it is not a good idea? I am not sure I understand. Thanks again for your answers.
JANE
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 23 2009, 3:12 PM
The science says PM is safe. The science says aspirin is safe but you would not take 30/day...would you? What I was trying to say is very simple.......topical products are better for breast enhancement. All things being equal topical creams, sprays, serums etc work better than capsules. Using large amounts of capsules/mg is counter-productive. Too many unnecessary side effects and this behavior is just begging gov't to step in when this gets big and spoil it............that's it spoil a good thing.
Wild PM in Thailand is no different than what you are buying now. One thing I may caution is things that come in from Asia can be mixed with pharmaceuticals to give it more pop! It does not happen all the time but can happen. They would not dare to that in Thailand. The lowest grade PM goes to China....certainly they have a good rep! Right!
There are good brands out there. I am not making recommendations because I know your common sense will take you there.
jn
jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 24 2009, 12:59 AM
I am saying this is Bella's logic. It is illogical from my point of view. First of all bella's regime is 500 mg capsules for breast enhancement...not a great idea. If you do it as she suggests I doubt it will influence your breast size any greater. Most women are going to mess up their cycles with this approach.
jm
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Misinformed!! September 24 2009, 1:11 PM
That is not correct! Bella's caps are 300mgs each,, 3 times a day,,, 7 days AFTER your period started, for 14 days, and period will come a few days after you have stopped the 14 days of caps, have period and start all over again.
I have done this and it never messed up my periods,, like clock work.
Sooo, I don't know where your getting your information, but the above is not Bella's system.
Also, have you ever used an internal PM product? Where are you getting your experiences from?
Sure, its going to totally mess up cycle if you never take a break from it, you only use it for 14 days, and also starting it on day one of cycle will also certainly mess with cycle because your not working with your body's cycle, your working against it.
Sorry, but you don't really seem to have all the facts!
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 1:49 AM
I am a pm expert. I even know the leading scientists in the world. What's your point?
900\mg is a stupid idea! My colleagues have just informed me that in Japan they are taking capsules off the shelf. I have not confirmed this. Why because of the Bella's of the world......the excessive mg, too many side effects and too many complaints.
Bella has taken it upon herself tO create a 900 mg/DAY protocol. I assure you my 10 years in the PM field and 30 years in the medical field trumps you.
My colleagues mfg PM. You are not every woman in the world. Once again there is no logical reason to use Bella's cycling.......its not going to increase breast size any better because you are going to end up with lower estradiol anyway. High mgs push down lutinizing hormone......endocrinology 101!
As I said the FDA doesn't like this wacko stuff..........how long do before they cme knocking on her door?
From you own postings you acknowledge it has not worked for you! Nothing seems to work for you.
There are no scientist in the PM world or knowledgable medical doctors in the world that would advocate 900 mg/day............who are you?
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 12:55 PM
Blah,Blah,Blah,,, how long has the birth control pill been on the market, 45 years? more?
It also has many side effects, and the newer ones have even more and billions and billions of women take it and no one is spouting off about how dangerous it could be. And they keep making it and selling it.
And I have gained a cup size on Bella's.
And if Bella's does not work like you say, how do you explain her growth?
If NBE does not work how do you explain any off the women on this forum who have had growth?
Show actual reports then, throw it all down for us to read here,, all the negative findings!!!!
I think your just a want-a-be and blowing wind.
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 1:16 PM
Better yet,,, Everyone do a Google on Dr. Wichai, everything I found was about pertecting this herb from exploitation from other countries and the positive effects of it. Sounds to me like he just wants to protect this herb so no other countries make money off it.
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 25 2009, 1:47 PM
Come on Jane! I dare you to copy and paste. Inform us!
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Carl Ann
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 26 2009, 12:07 AM
WOW oh WOW...... So smowflake honey.....how's it goin my sista????
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 26 2009, 3:17 AM
S-Flake
I have a liimited amount of time and pateince. Your source of knowledge is this forum. ITS obvious you have limited formal education because your hardheaded.
I gave my opinions.......based on a stack of scientific papers about 12 inces thick. Many done by Dr. Wichai.
Clearly you have read very little and have no background in endocrinology.
My concern is safety meaning the high MG regimen for people with perfect health for breast enhancement.
As I said its a stupid idea.....when the leading scientists studying PM do not endore this and the female
scientist would not dare do it. It's true Dr Wichai did a short 3 month study on breast enhancement and got
good results with his cultivar.......but he does not endorsed this commercially. I believe they would throw him
out of the University as unfit!
Why do you think you know more than them? You don't. Not even remotely close. You are a hardhead.
The next issue Gov't once this gets more widespresd will take enforements actions to stop the sale of PM capsules. Gov't doesn't like compaints or controversy. The markerters, "hackers have burned it out in Japan.
In the USA PM does not have FDA DESHEA status. You burning it out before it even gets approved!
We know matter of fact topicals work better than capsules with no systemic side effects.
I said everything you need to know. YOU want to learn about PM. There are at least 50 scientific papers out there. Read them! Now your on your own! Birth control is a drug. Do you want PM to be classified a drug.
You may never be able to use it. Who is going to fund the millions and millions of dollars to get it approved by gov't...........no one!
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RomaV
(Login RomaV)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 1:11 AM
Jane, no need to be hostile, you presented some interesting arguments.
"We know matter of fact topicals work better than capsules with no systemic side effects."
Are there any double-blind studies that support this?
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 3:11 AM
There is one unpublished study done at one of the Thai hospitals. I do not have it.
The point I am trying to drive home to the people who seem is be either desperate or defiant is that high MGS of PM are unnecessary...period. If you are cost sensitive sit it out because in the long run there will not be PM for you once the FDA gets heat from the press. It will happen.
In Thailand only topicals for breast enhancement and no complaints to their FDA....that is what gov't likes.
The people in Thailand exporting high MGS.........for the quick buck have no long term vision, now their best customer Japan I am told no more capsules.
Can you imagine the US or Europe with women complaining that they are 60 or 70 years old and using high amounts of PM and starting to bleed or menstruate. If the press gets a hold of it they will twist it and distort it...why is the FDA not protecting us etc.
Can't we conserve a good thing? I have been involoved with PM a long time. When I get a call for PM supplement powder from a rinky dinky operation to made capsules for breast enhancement.........the answer is always No. Do i want the money? Yes! The answer is still always no ! You can not believe how stupid these people are and they are just followers not leaders. Where does that lead the consumers? We have been trying to get the big companies like Now and some others to make PM capsules for a long time. They are all scared of it. They are turned off by this breast enhanement stuff and petrified about the liability issues. Only the little guys with nothing to loose put out the irresponsible high MGS. Its as simple as that.
jn
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Tina Z
(Login tinaz408)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 4:06 PM
Jane,
Thanks again for the info. You do bring up some valid points. You also sound very kowledgeable to me. The most knowlegeable one so far on this whole PM forum. I have been cautious of taking PM because of high doses and the side effects reported by all these women.
I want to take it for all the other benefits it has, besides breast growth, really! When I was going to take it I thought I would only take 500mg a day instead of 900-1000 mg a day. Many of these companies selling PM are just trying to make a quick buck and really know nothing about PM.
Yes, Bella got results, but you will not know the long term effects of her program until some time from now. I am not trying to get those kind of effects, my life is too precious and growing bigger breasts are just not worth it to me.
If people do want to STILL take PM, what kind of a program would you suggest for them Jane? How many mgs a day? When to take it? How many days out of the month it should be taken? What cycle days should it be taken? Breast cream and massage, how often and how much? And so on.
Thanks again Jane for shedding light on this, I was already thinking this, but had no evidence to support it.
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Butterfly
(Login Butterfly84) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 28 2009, 5:24 PM
Thank-you, Jane, for taking the time to inform us. I do appreciate it. But I also have a few more questions. So are you saying women should just forget about PM? Are there any reputable companies out there that sell PM in the right form with the right dosages? Or is everyone just trying to make money? The company i bought PM from sells it in 100 mg capsules and says to start out with only 100-200 mgs, with the maximum being 400 mg per day. But I never actually took it because i was afraid too, because I don't feel like i know enough about PM. I have done a fair amount of research on the internet by googling PM, but became more frustrated and confused because everyone seems to have something different to say and I don't know who to believe.
You say topicals work better than capsules anyway.... what sort of topicals? Are you saying it's possible to have substansial growth using just topicals/massage?
I am very interested in what you have to say and I would highly appreciate your response! Thank you...
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM September 29 2009, 8:54 AM
I certainly would not forget about PM. Some interesting studies are underway for Alheimers, osteoporosis, hormone replacement etc.
THE most important point is use it wisely or prudently. Start out conservativrly. See how you respond, develope a comfort level. Accomodate to the extra plant estogen.
For Pre-menstrual women you can responsibly use 100 to 200 mg 15 days a month. Sarting the 1st dat of your period is good and using it 15 days is good because you can most likely keep regular cycles. There can be individual differences certainly. If slight moderations work for you fine. If you are using a wild material you can use a little more.....how much....maybe 100 to 300 or 400mg/ day. There is more varibility with wild.
Another approach for pre-menopausal symptoms is 50mg /day all month long. Several medical studies have been done like this with no crazy menstrual cycles. The problem you may have is that no one makes 50 mg caps
The most unique quality PM has that people keep overlooking is PM maintains ones appearance. When I meet someone that says they do not care that they will get old....I just walk away that goes against human nature...right? Everybody wants to look young and feel young its an up hill battle. They make a big deal about some souped version of resveratrol......well PM is here. The younger women are luke warm about this but you all can't be 100 per cent at that time of the month. I'm scared to death of Yaz...its healthy to menstuate probably less healthy not to.
For menopausal women, once again start out conservatively....don't start out at the higher levels, start out at lower levers. Get a comfort level. Since your body is not making estrogen any longer and there is no menstruation you can use a little more. The older you are be more conservative you should be...go slow...learn how it effects you personally. Menopausal woman can use 100 to 200mg/ day all month long if it agrees with you. If you use wild maybe a little more.
best
jn
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Tiran
(no login) JANE PLEASE GIVE US A RIGHT DOSAGE September 29 2009, 11:44 AM
Hello Jane,
Please!! What is the right dosage???? It is such a major concern!!! As we are all in my opinion a guinea pigs!!!
I also know that Solgar's dosage is 2x80mg a day. However, they advice it mainly for menopause...I posted yesterday somewhere her but as I am new I can't figure it out yet where did my message go...During last month i was finishing left over bottle of St Herb pueraria and to strech what i had i used 1/morning and 1/night = 400/day and i think my breast is a bit fuller, but i have like AAAAA...
So please advice on dosage? Also what is your background, endocrinology???
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blue_sardine
(no login) Thanks Jane, and a question September 30 2009, 6:30 AM
Thanks very much Jane! I've been on Bella's for 3 months now, but after reading your posts I'll be either quitting entirely or scaling back to 100 or 200mg a day and just focussing on topicals.
Here's the problem for me, though, and it's not going to go away: As a woman who has never been able to fill even an A cup bra, I am desperate to have breasts. Seriously - any breasts at all. It's something that I don't think a lot of people can really understand - many women on here complain about being small, but they can fill an A, or even a B cup bra! I won't have implants done, as I think they're a horrific thing that women in our society do to themselves to the detriment of their health, but I'm not going to stop trying different ways to MAKE MY OWN BODY GROW SOME DARN BREASTS!
I once went home with a guy (when I was 24, I'm now 28), and when I took off my shirt, he looked at my chest, smirked, and said "how old are you!?" Can anyone understand how that would feel?? That's not how I want to look forever.
Jane - you really seem like you know what you're talking about. What do you mean when you say 'topicals'? Do you mean the topical application of PM creams? Specifically PM, or is there anything else that's good topically as well, either alone, or in combination with PM? Will that make my breasts grow? Is it safe? How do I do it?
Also - snowflake - you've behaved foolishly on this forum, and I think you owe Jane an apology.
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM October 1 2009, 12:07 PM
really blue Sardine??? jane comes on here, rude and abrasive and calls us all stupid, has never taken PM internally and I am the one who needs to apoligize? Whatever!
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jane
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM October 2 2009, 3:41 AM
I have been taking PM for many many years, before you even knew the it is. You are clearly not the sharpest pencil in the drawer! You are way out of your leaguw...period
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Blue_Sardine October 2 2009, 2:26 PM
Blue_Sardine!!!Hi!!!
I know EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL!!!!! I have absalutely the same situation )))I am absalutely flat and I feel weerd! I am also 28 and had 1 kid, breastfed...but well, apart from 12 month when i was breast feeding (B cup at that period) I was always that flat ((( Well it is one thing being on a smaller side...and there are many sexy women and most runway models are small, like A....another way is thinking that you might shock someone if you undress ))).
I am kinda thinking about OP ( if PM fails) and found one site where they have lots of before and after pics...and there were some girls that had such nice boobs any way...why would they want an OP?? )))
I also sent e-mails to many London endocrinologists...many responed...and they agree that if it is usually NOT hormonal disbalance if your periods are normal...And i had my hormones tested (blood test) and it turned to be all right...then 1 endo. whom i hope to see when i get private insurance wrote me this:
Sorry for the gap in replying. I had to travel unexpectedly. The main issue for you is whether this is endocrine, i.e. due to low female sex hormones, or end organ insensitivity i.e. breast tissue not responsive to the sex hormones. To be sure you would need a full endocrine survey of the female sex hormones and some pituitary hormones. Firstly you would need to be seen to check on your histroy and examination and establish general development and thus the likely hormone background. There may possibly be Xrays and scans needed but we could discuss this.
I don't know..may be you will find it interesting ))) Anyways Cheer UP!!! You are not the only one ))))
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CT
(no login) Topical Treatment October 3 2009, 11:03 AM
As far as what I have read, women with smaller breasts generally dont have a hormonal imbalance and their periods are normal. It appears that the receptors in the breast tissue are just insensitive to the circulating hormones. So it stands to reason that topical treatments would be more effective because they directly saturate the receptors with hormone analogues through the skin.
PM has been successful with alot of women at varying degrees when it comes to breast enlargement and I dont know what the mechanism of action actually is. Alot of people say that it boosts your estrogen levels but it might lower your estrogen levels by competing with it for the receptor sites. If thats true then your body might boost its own estrogen levels to try to compete with the analogue, as a counter response. So when you stop taking it your body will suddenly be left with no estrogen analogue but high levels of natural estrogen and this might be what increases breast size.
Its all speculation but theres no denying that PM has a good breast enlargement success rate. Its good to develop your own routine if you plan on taking it and start with a small dose and assess its effects.
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) receptors October 5 2009, 10:16 AM
Yes, I heard it many times that receptors can be insensitive to the hormones.
I was just wondering what could possibly be a reason???
I am just worried whether endocrinologist can address this problem somehow...I worry after getting from me quite big money for all this tests they will just tell me this old story how we are all different and how I was ment to be flat )))
About topicals: I know that it is a big hussle in cosmetic industry to create carriers of active ingridients that go beyond superficial level of skin....therefore i wonder how active ingridients of PM end up reaching this receptors that obviously don't sit on the top of the skin ???
Can someone with appropriate background share their view on these?
Thanks
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) doses of M October 5 2009, 10:29 AM
y the way received answer from Mirifem regarding their PM...It proves again Jane's point about the right dosage and farmed vs wild PM issue...
May be it will be interesting to some of you )))
Thank you for your interest in our products.
The Pueraria mirifica we used are wild harvested and then further processed
into an extract. This is followed up by a lab test to ensure the extract is
safe and contains a good amount of active compounds so that it will be
effective. We have done this since 2006.
In the past, we were using just dried Pueraria mirifica (powdered) and we
notice that customer's results vary because the active compounds present
changes with different harvesting seasons. There are also some harvesters
that mix in other type of Pueraria that resembles Pueraria mirifica(PM) but
simply do not contain any of the active compounds that PM have.
Each of our Caplet contains 50mg of PM. Our dosage of 50-100mg daily
conforms to that of studies done by several Thai Universities. In a
nutshell, when the correct species of PM is used, 50-100mg daily is
effective and safe. (excessive usage could cause side effects like
headaches/dizziness probably related to hormonal imbalance)
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blue_sardine
(no login) Hi Tiran1 October 6 2009, 2:09 AM
Hey Tiran1 - thanks for the wonderful info, and for sharing the email from that endocrinologist with us! I'm glad I'm not the only one like me on the forum! I might start emailing some endocrinologists myself and see what they say and how much testing would cost for me. I'll keep you guys posted on what happens.
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chloespeaks
(Login chloespeaks) Endocrinologically speaking... November 1 2009, 7:55 PM
Blue Sardine and Tiran1: I'm new here so I don't mean to be rude. I am enjoying your posts and it is helping my research as well for my own pursuit of larger breasts (which are A/AA, quite small), but I can't help but comment on the tone. There really IS NOTHING wrong with you hormonally speaking. The size of a woman's breasts, physically speaking, have nothing to do with biologic function. You should definitely know this Tiran1 as you had a kid and breastfed successfully. I think it is as you two have said, us small boobied women don't have great receptors for hormones in the way of growing. I know a few big breasted women which had such a hard time breastfeeding that they didn't do it at all.
So no amount of expensive testing with endicrinologists will change things the "natural" way. I myself tried herbs with no luck. I also tried Bovine Ovary, another hormone type supplement, to try to change my breast size. Nothing. I am now using vacuum type system called the Noogleberry - everyone who has stuck with it on that forum has has SOME result, but it takes alot of patience. A few have been saying that using the vacuum suction PLUS small doses of PM together have helped tremendously, which is why I am here.
With vacuum, it doesn't matter about your genetic receptors. It's like exercising; continual suction of that tissue will eventually cause results. Do some googling on it and check it out!
Blue Sardine, I am sorry that that guy said such a mean thing to you. I understand how you feel. Once in my early twenties, I had a guy I had a big crush on (just a flirtation), who actually was a friend of my boyfriend say to me in front of everyone, many times. "Chloe is the hottest most perfect girl except that she's flat" Yeah.
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Chloespeaks November 2 2009, 9:48 AM
Hi!
I do agree with you, you are right in a way...
I also talked with one endocrinologist and she said that all this 'receptors don't respond' concept is rubbish as I perfectly demonstrated with my example...my body knew that I had a baby and produced milk (a hell amount of it actually)...so my breast's receptors were responsive to the hormones.Basta!! Then it is unrealistic to say that I have no breast because they are not responsive to some other hormones that would make it grow. And all my female hormones are 100% perfect!
As I mentioned before I got private insurance-let them work for their money...Because sometimes I think ''Oh no, there is sth wrong with me otherwise WHY I AM FLAT''. So I just want to take all this thoughts out of my way!
All women in my family do have LARGE breast and I have none...
Also when I was like 15-16 I was developing nicely (it was clear that I would have B-C cup) and then I went on this ''carrot only'' diet and didn't have periods for sometime and Bingo-no boobs! And now when I gained all the weight, not even a gram went to that department!
It is just so interesting why ( from medical view point)some women have AAA and AAAA? I am not talking about girls with A cup, that is absolutely normal to me. But why some are just flat like me? I just want to know what are the possible reason for it? Because i think everything can be explained...Hence, my decision to have tests done
And please don't get me wrong- I don't sit all day thinking about it..I do have life ))) It's just this forum is about this issue and that is why I speak about it here. I also feel that you, girls, will better understand me as my big-breasted friends think that for ex. stretch marks and cellulite, and flabby tummy is worse...may be they are right but I want some cleavage )))))That's all ))
cheers!
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annj
(Login ann1965) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM November 2 2009, 12:34 PM
Young ladies. You really need to get an real education. You would be self sufficient.
Receptor problems....what do you thing receptors are? You don't know. They are under a lot of hormonal and chemical controls that make them work. Who knows what's wrong with you flat chested wenches except your you seem to be mean spirited and extremely simple.
Can anyone spell B-i-m-b-o?
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Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) annj November 3 2009, 9:35 AM
Hi!
You ,annj, have such a logic and need indeed''an education'' so you can feel sufficient without calling anyone bimbo!!!
Bad news for you, annj, I have phd in economics...no kidding..from LSE - one of the best universities in London...
so please , unless you have something clever to say or ask, don't post your messages, just read them!
What is next?
calling all those who take showers everyday and shave their legs a bimbo?
Or you suggest just popping pills brainlessly without trying to understand what it doeas to your body???
And who is bad spirited here apart from you, annj??? And what do YOU know about receptors??
And by the way, many will agree with me , that even medicine is not exact science, that is why different doctors have different opinions and thera are such paradoxes as 'placebo pill paradox' and many others....It means we don't know everything!!!as a mass!!!
Good luck annj!
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Salome83
(no login) tiran1 November 4 2009, 6:35 AM
Hey Tiran, sorry it is out of topic, but I just wanted to share that I am doing my PhD of Economics as well in New York! trying to finish my dissertation
that's why i can't participate to forum that much but it is a good break from studying for me to follow the forum.Now I have an interesting regression idea, seems like there is a significant relation between the boob size and IQ
I am just kidding but it would be interesting to run a regression of this if we can find the data!ps: i agree with you about annj, i think she is just here trying to attract some attention by writing aggressive and assaultive statements.(guess she has problem in getting attention in real life with her 36E bust size and most probably flat butt
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annj1965
(no login) Re: JANE,, your opinions about PM November 4 2009, 12:13 PM
economics huh...........pretty worthless and useless in the world of the biological sciences.
my butt is as fine as my breasts
36 e don't you wish you were me!
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blue_sardine
(no login) annj November 4 2009, 4:56 PM
Annj!
Gorgeous! Lovely! Nothing like a bit of vitriol to spice things up on a community forum. I'm so glad that you graced us with your presence - please spew more bile on me now! I'm feeling deserving...Hahahaha!
Thanks - I needed a good giggle, you vicious old fool...
Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Salome November 5 2009, 9:36 AM
Hey Salome,
Actually we can do this study on this forum )))) random members will take on-line IQ test and submit their measurement prior PM usage )))could be interesting. However similar study has been done already, believe it or not, and it showed that smaller breasted women had higher IQ. Unfortunately, they made a hint that it could be due to higher testerone level (i don't agree)...it is a man world out there, ha? Also if my male peers want to complement me they very often say that I have a ''male logic''-a good thing in this context. )))No seriously- I read this study like 7 years ago, i remember I used it for sometime to comfort me..
But as I mention before my all family have large breast and they are all very intelligent so I wouldn't take this study seriously...i better gain some cleavage myself )))