24-12-2011, 11:50 AM
question about PM
July 30 2009 at 6:48 PM acho (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi. So here is my dilemma. I read about PM and thought of trying it. I have not tried any NBE so far as I figured they change hormones and I have a family history of breast cancer (paternal grandmom), and thought they might increase my chances of getting it. But when i read up on PM, some websites said it actually decreases the risk of breast cancer. But the recommended use information on PM says not to use it if there is a history of breast cancer. How does that work? Why would they say it decreases chances of breast cancer, but then say not to use it if you have had breast cancer before? please help.
Author Reply
Mel C
(Login mcovert) Re: question about PM August 1 2009, 3:22 AM
I will try to maybe make some sense of this.I take PM,along with other things,and I also massage with PM.I have read articles such as this,too.I may be totally wrong,or maybe I won't explain it well.Someone will probably have the correct way to say it.
Maybe they don't want someone that has had breast cancer in the past to take PM because once you have had cancer,you go into remission. Maybe it would bring it back out or encourage it to because of growth and/or messing with the hormones,therefore,creating too much risk.Maybe something still 'hibernates' in a person.The body is an amazing and mystical thing.But,if you have never had breast cancer,it gives you less risk of getting it.
I compare it with this:
My husband has gout------which is not related to NBE or PM or even breast cancer------BUT,he takes allupurinol to keep a gout attack from coming on and to keep his uric acid levels down.Well,he had a BAD attack about 6,7 months ago and it was bad enough for him to go to the emergency room.We explained to the doc that he had been taking his medicine,and the doc gave us some very interesting info that none of his other doctors have told him.He said that yes,his medicine is for trying to keep the gout down and keep it at bay,BUT once he has an attack,to actually quit taking this medicine until the attack has been over for a couple of days.The reason why is once that gout attacks,the medicine actually makes the attack worse AND last longer.Weird.And they say gout is a rich person's disease........NOT!
Anyway,maybe it works in a similar way with the PM and they have discovered it.Who knows? That does make some sense to me,though.If it's true with one thing,why not another? Hope that did not sound stupid.
~~What you think about,you bring about~~
Mel C
bravebrava
(no login) regarding your question August 3 2009, 12:10 AM
hi, i have some medical background due to the profession that i am in. It is known that extra estrogen level in your system raises risk of cancer. PM is phytoestrogen, and it is not estrogen, but mimics estrogen and body mistakes it for estrogen. According to what I learned, phytoestrogen increases risk of cancer, where body has estrogen receptors. I believe that is why they don't want you using PM if you have history of breast cancer. I tried to explain without mixing medical jargon and to make it simple. I hope it made sense.
Edit Message Delete Message
acho
(no login) for Mel C and Brave brava August 3 2009, 2:04 AM
Thanks Mel C. Your husbands example helps make some sense of it. Thanks Bravebrava for your input. My question then is, I am 24 and have not had breast cancer, but my paternal grandmother did. So with this family history, would you think it would be ok for me to take PM? obviously i know there are no guarantees but what do you think?
Thanks
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) regarding your question August 3 2009, 5:07 PM
well, i'm not too sure what you will be trying to do, but I am totally regretting that I have ever done Brava. It did not work. only my nipple and areolar became bigger and I think my breasts actually got smaller. and I have itchy, inflamed skin all over my breasts. I don't know how this happened. but I feel like I want to die,,, besides talking about cancer, I would not trust this product. very bogus, and I can't believe I got myself into it, and that I am a health professional. I am ashamed of myself. Only thing I am donig now is praying to God that it becomes the way I had before. I feel really pathetic.
Edit Message Delete Message
acho
(no login) Re: question about PM August 4 2009, 7:48 PM
WOW!! I'm sorry to hear about your situation bravebrava. I'm thinking of starting PM. I just don't know where to start, what kind to get, what dose to take and if I should take it with anything else. I also read somewhere that PM should not be taken if estrogen levels are not low. My estrogen levels are normal so I don't knnow if it would harm me or not. I hope things work out for you and you feel better soon! thanks for your input!
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) estrogen level and such August 4 2009, 9:38 PM
PM is phytoestrogen,,, it will act like estrogen. Estrogen receptors in your body will respond to it as if it is estrogen, and will have same effect in your body as estrogen. Cancer feeds on estrogen also. It will definitely increase your risk of cancer for sure with use of PM. I think it is a gamble situation. I can't really make decision for you, but I myself have normal estrogen level. If I get on PM, I would never get myself into high dosage. If subtle dosage makes difference, it would be great.
Edit Message Delete Message
acho
(no login) Re: question about PM August 5 2009, 5:21 AM
Thanks Bravebrava
So I talked to my gyn today and she was going to prescribe me birth control. I had the same concerns and asked her about the risk of breast cancer, to which she said that if I had family history from my mom's side she would be concerned, but since it was my dad's mom who had it, and no one on my mom's side has it, she said she doesn't think birth control would harm me. So I'm guessing it would be the same thing with PM. Have you tried it? You said you have normal estrogen levels, if you have tried PM has it worked for you? Have you tried any other herbs?
Thanks a lot for your input!
Edit Message Delete Message
blue_sardine
(Login blue_sardine) Do your research! August 5 2009, 6:50 AM
Hey,
You guys need to do some research - phytoestrogens do not actually behave the same way as our own estrogens, and in many cases they reduce the risk of breast cancer. Bravebra, go online and look up articles on PM in medical journals. Phytoestrogens undergo a complex series of processes in the body, and you need to understand it properly before you start dosing yourself with a new drug (yes, PM is a drug). I've done the research, but as I'm not a medical practitioner, I don't feel I should try to explain it. Your health is your responsibility.
Also, I think the women in this thread should be ashamed of themselves - bravebra expressed how foolish and devastated she felt, but rather than supporting her you all just continued to prattle about your own desire for bigger tits! Now, we're all here for the same reason (yeah - I'm sick of my A cups too), but come on - have some empathy, you silly girls.
Bravebra - don't feel foolish for trying the brava. You've got nothing to be ashamed of, and your breasts will be ok. Just go easy on them, give them some time to recover, and DO YOUR RESEARCH when it comes to new products. Don't just ask women on forums, trust me, they don't know anything, and are all so desperate for news on how to make their breasts grow that they'll try anything.
Also, if anyone's on the contraceptive pill - high-dose phytoestrogens (such as high-dose PM) can mess with it, so be careful (condoms!).
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) re: PM August 7 2009, 12:29 PM
hi, Thank you for everyone's reply. I do have med/health background, and in school I did learn about phytoestrogen. My reply was based on my understanding or assumption that PM, pueraria mirifica, being one of the phytoestrogenic agents. Phytoestergen can come from many sources, and may have conflicting studies from research. It is true, from reading, I find that PM under certain dosages could be helpful in women's health, but in dosages that will boost up breast growth, my understanding or education tells me that it does have big association with tumor growth. I don't feel like going through and summarizing the lectures of phytoestrogen from classes from two semesters ago, but what i wrote was as if i were to put it simply. My writing is based on my knowledge gained from classes (grad school) from two semesters ago that is Fall 2008, but if you have newer research finding that you are aware of, please share with the forum.
Also, I understand that all of us know that there are two kinds of research articles out there. One being the articles purely written by science labs without commercial incentives, most of them funded by government, and the other articles written with commercial incentives, trying to prove their point to get their products sold. I know numerous faculties that were involved and even more so forced to sign their names on commercially driven articles on which they eventually refused to sign their names... but anyhow there are lots of papers out there that are funded by product manufacturers or companies and they really want to publish the papers and sell theri products.... so people also need to be aware of that. As for now, phytoestrogen is a definite big no no for people who have had history of breast cancer. I guess I am not the one who knows all about phytoestrogen, but since the professor who taught the class is a very well known endocrinologist, I just think that she is a good resource for understanding the topic of our discussion.
Anyhow, sorry for making this long. One point i wanted to make was that I don't think anyone who are on this forum is silly or anything. I understand that we do need to do our reserach and all for our own health,,, but I do feel that trial and error and learning from others' mistakes could tell us something that we should do better for ourselves. I think that this forum is honest, helpful, and much more worthy than product sellers or people who write papers just to get their products sold.
Thank you for all the comments, criticism, and everything. I am sure that everyone's experience will add up to something better in someone else's life and little decisions that they may make for their health. And of course like Bluesardine's comment, we could do more worthy research and share it with the forum.
Thanks everyone and see you again here.
Bravebrava..
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) re: blue sardine's msg August 7 2009, 12:36 PM
hi blue sardine,
just wanted to say thanks for the heads up.
with 2 yrs of med courses, I thought that i did understand the principles behind Brava. i did try them but was surprised to find out that i was too brave on it. hence my nickname on here is bravebrava. i am not sure if i can get back on it for now. i'm really traumatized as you can tell.
anyway, i was just curious about what you have done about your breasts and what courses you have done so far. I am just wondering if anything worked out for you or what not. Please let me know, i'm sure all of us would love to know. and if you think that brava doesn't make sense, why would you think so because of what principles? It seems like you may have some understanding behind some med principles or have enough background knowledge to understand medical stuffs. so i would love to take your advice as well. i will do my research on your suggestion too i promise.
thanks,
Brave brava
July 30 2009 at 6:48 PM acho (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi. So here is my dilemma. I read about PM and thought of trying it. I have not tried any NBE so far as I figured they change hormones and I have a family history of breast cancer (paternal grandmom), and thought they might increase my chances of getting it. But when i read up on PM, some websites said it actually decreases the risk of breast cancer. But the recommended use information on PM says not to use it if there is a history of breast cancer. How does that work? Why would they say it decreases chances of breast cancer, but then say not to use it if you have had breast cancer before? please help.
Author Reply
Mel C
(Login mcovert) Re: question about PM August 1 2009, 3:22 AM
I will try to maybe make some sense of this.I take PM,along with other things,and I also massage with PM.I have read articles such as this,too.I may be totally wrong,or maybe I won't explain it well.Someone will probably have the correct way to say it.
Maybe they don't want someone that has had breast cancer in the past to take PM because once you have had cancer,you go into remission. Maybe it would bring it back out or encourage it to because of growth and/or messing with the hormones,therefore,creating too much risk.Maybe something still 'hibernates' in a person.The body is an amazing and mystical thing.But,if you have never had breast cancer,it gives you less risk of getting it.
I compare it with this:
My husband has gout------which is not related to NBE or PM or even breast cancer------BUT,he takes allupurinol to keep a gout attack from coming on and to keep his uric acid levels down.Well,he had a BAD attack about 6,7 months ago and it was bad enough for him to go to the emergency room.We explained to the doc that he had been taking his medicine,and the doc gave us some very interesting info that none of his other doctors have told him.He said that yes,his medicine is for trying to keep the gout down and keep it at bay,BUT once he has an attack,to actually quit taking this medicine until the attack has been over for a couple of days.The reason why is once that gout attacks,the medicine actually makes the attack worse AND last longer.Weird.And they say gout is a rich person's disease........NOT!
Anyway,maybe it works in a similar way with the PM and they have discovered it.Who knows? That does make some sense to me,though.If it's true with one thing,why not another? Hope that did not sound stupid.
~~What you think about,you bring about~~
Mel C
bravebrava
(no login) regarding your question August 3 2009, 12:10 AM
hi, i have some medical background due to the profession that i am in. It is known that extra estrogen level in your system raises risk of cancer. PM is phytoestrogen, and it is not estrogen, but mimics estrogen and body mistakes it for estrogen. According to what I learned, phytoestrogen increases risk of cancer, where body has estrogen receptors. I believe that is why they don't want you using PM if you have history of breast cancer. I tried to explain without mixing medical jargon and to make it simple. I hope it made sense.
Edit Message Delete Message
acho
(no login) for Mel C and Brave brava August 3 2009, 2:04 AM
Thanks Mel C. Your husbands example helps make some sense of it. Thanks Bravebrava for your input. My question then is, I am 24 and have not had breast cancer, but my paternal grandmother did. So with this family history, would you think it would be ok for me to take PM? obviously i know there are no guarantees but what do you think?
Thanks
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) regarding your question August 3 2009, 5:07 PM
well, i'm not too sure what you will be trying to do, but I am totally regretting that I have ever done Brava. It did not work. only my nipple and areolar became bigger and I think my breasts actually got smaller. and I have itchy, inflamed skin all over my breasts. I don't know how this happened. but I feel like I want to die,,, besides talking about cancer, I would not trust this product. very bogus, and I can't believe I got myself into it, and that I am a health professional. I am ashamed of myself. Only thing I am donig now is praying to God that it becomes the way I had before. I feel really pathetic.
Edit Message Delete Message
acho
(no login) Re: question about PM August 4 2009, 7:48 PM
WOW!! I'm sorry to hear about your situation bravebrava. I'm thinking of starting PM. I just don't know where to start, what kind to get, what dose to take and if I should take it with anything else. I also read somewhere that PM should not be taken if estrogen levels are not low. My estrogen levels are normal so I don't knnow if it would harm me or not. I hope things work out for you and you feel better soon! thanks for your input!
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) estrogen level and such August 4 2009, 9:38 PM
PM is phytoestrogen,,, it will act like estrogen. Estrogen receptors in your body will respond to it as if it is estrogen, and will have same effect in your body as estrogen. Cancer feeds on estrogen also. It will definitely increase your risk of cancer for sure with use of PM. I think it is a gamble situation. I can't really make decision for you, but I myself have normal estrogen level. If I get on PM, I would never get myself into high dosage. If subtle dosage makes difference, it would be great.
Edit Message Delete Message
acho
(no login) Re: question about PM August 5 2009, 5:21 AM
Thanks Bravebrava
So I talked to my gyn today and she was going to prescribe me birth control. I had the same concerns and asked her about the risk of breast cancer, to which she said that if I had family history from my mom's side she would be concerned, but since it was my dad's mom who had it, and no one on my mom's side has it, she said she doesn't think birth control would harm me. So I'm guessing it would be the same thing with PM. Have you tried it? You said you have normal estrogen levels, if you have tried PM has it worked for you? Have you tried any other herbs?
Thanks a lot for your input!
Edit Message Delete Message
blue_sardine
(Login blue_sardine) Do your research! August 5 2009, 6:50 AM
Hey,
You guys need to do some research - phytoestrogens do not actually behave the same way as our own estrogens, and in many cases they reduce the risk of breast cancer. Bravebra, go online and look up articles on PM in medical journals. Phytoestrogens undergo a complex series of processes in the body, and you need to understand it properly before you start dosing yourself with a new drug (yes, PM is a drug). I've done the research, but as I'm not a medical practitioner, I don't feel I should try to explain it. Your health is your responsibility.
Also, I think the women in this thread should be ashamed of themselves - bravebra expressed how foolish and devastated she felt, but rather than supporting her you all just continued to prattle about your own desire for bigger tits! Now, we're all here for the same reason (yeah - I'm sick of my A cups too), but come on - have some empathy, you silly girls.
Bravebra - don't feel foolish for trying the brava. You've got nothing to be ashamed of, and your breasts will be ok. Just go easy on them, give them some time to recover, and DO YOUR RESEARCH when it comes to new products. Don't just ask women on forums, trust me, they don't know anything, and are all so desperate for news on how to make their breasts grow that they'll try anything.
Also, if anyone's on the contraceptive pill - high-dose phytoestrogens (such as high-dose PM) can mess with it, so be careful (condoms!).
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) re: PM August 7 2009, 12:29 PM
hi, Thank you for everyone's reply. I do have med/health background, and in school I did learn about phytoestrogen. My reply was based on my understanding or assumption that PM, pueraria mirifica, being one of the phytoestrogenic agents. Phytoestergen can come from many sources, and may have conflicting studies from research. It is true, from reading, I find that PM under certain dosages could be helpful in women's health, but in dosages that will boost up breast growth, my understanding or education tells me that it does have big association with tumor growth. I don't feel like going through and summarizing the lectures of phytoestrogen from classes from two semesters ago, but what i wrote was as if i were to put it simply. My writing is based on my knowledge gained from classes (grad school) from two semesters ago that is Fall 2008, but if you have newer research finding that you are aware of, please share with the forum.
Also, I understand that all of us know that there are two kinds of research articles out there. One being the articles purely written by science labs without commercial incentives, most of them funded by government, and the other articles written with commercial incentives, trying to prove their point to get their products sold. I know numerous faculties that were involved and even more so forced to sign their names on commercially driven articles on which they eventually refused to sign their names... but anyhow there are lots of papers out there that are funded by product manufacturers or companies and they really want to publish the papers and sell theri products.... so people also need to be aware of that. As for now, phytoestrogen is a definite big no no for people who have had history of breast cancer. I guess I am not the one who knows all about phytoestrogen, but since the professor who taught the class is a very well known endocrinologist, I just think that she is a good resource for understanding the topic of our discussion.
Anyhow, sorry for making this long. One point i wanted to make was that I don't think anyone who are on this forum is silly or anything. I understand that we do need to do our reserach and all for our own health,,, but I do feel that trial and error and learning from others' mistakes could tell us something that we should do better for ourselves. I think that this forum is honest, helpful, and much more worthy than product sellers or people who write papers just to get their products sold.
Thank you for all the comments, criticism, and everything. I am sure that everyone's experience will add up to something better in someone else's life and little decisions that they may make for their health. And of course like Bluesardine's comment, we could do more worthy research and share it with the forum.
Thanks everyone and see you again here.
Bravebrava..
Edit Message Delete Message
bravebrava
(no login) re: blue sardine's msg August 7 2009, 12:36 PM
hi blue sardine,
just wanted to say thanks for the heads up.
with 2 yrs of med courses, I thought that i did understand the principles behind Brava. i did try them but was surprised to find out that i was too brave on it. hence my nickname on here is bravebrava. i am not sure if i can get back on it for now. i'm really traumatized as you can tell.
anyway, i was just curious about what you have done about your breasts and what courses you have done so far. I am just wondering if anything worked out for you or what not. Please let me know, i'm sure all of us would love to know. and if you think that brava doesn't make sense, why would you think so because of what principles? It seems like you may have some understanding behind some med principles or have enough background knowledge to understand medical stuffs. so i would love to take your advice as well. i will do my research on your suggestion too i promise.
thanks,
Brave brava