[surferjoe2007]

Thank you, I've just been looking at collagen supplement on an online chemist shop and noticed MSM came up next to it in the search. I couldn't decide which to buy. So MSM will create more collagen but collagen supplements itself won't be useful??

Taken collagen pills to get collagen is like taking milk pills to get calcium. A capsule-full is pointless. If you want collagen you eat it not take it: broth from chicken's feet (a popular way to get a lot), chicken skin, tripe, tendon, or broth made from a soup bone. You take sulfur (MSM) to build your own collagen, and then you don't need so much.

[lostacres6]

surferjoe,
I take PM 1000 mg in 2 divided doses. I recently switched from FG seed to FG extract but cut down on the mg's. Within 2 weeks I experienced depression which always happens to me if I don't balance the phytoestrogens with the phyto progesterones. Why does this happen?

[surferjoe2007]

surferjoe,
I take PM 1000 mg in 2 divided doses. I recently switched from FG seed to FG extract but cut down on the mg's. Within 2 weeks I experienced depression which always happens to me if I don't balance the phytoestrogens with the phyto progesterones. Why does this happen?

I could only guess without a hormone test. But here's some general info:
Estrogen raises prolactin
Prolactin lowers estrogen and greatly lowers dopamine
Dopamine greatly lowers prolactin
Dopamine lowers serotonin
Serotonin lowers dopamine
I hear a lot here that prolactin herbs raise progesterone, but I haven't checked that myself.

Dopamine makes you happy-excited with drive, serotonin makes you happy-calm. It's harder to notice serotonin because it's a peaceful effect.

PM is a strong estrogen imitator. Fenugreek raises your sensitivity and/or production of estrogen, progesterone and prolactin. AFAIK there aren't any real phyto-progesterones, but there are some prolactin (or anti-prolactin) ones which might be related. For example anything more than a tiny amount of vitex actually raises dopamine and lowers prolactin. What herbs were you taking for progesterone specifically?

Besides being interconnected, sexual and mood hormones also draw on a lot of the same resources. Especially at your age you could try to improve your overall health, especially B vitamins. Some of the healthiest foods are large amounts of spinach, cilantro, broccoli, watercress or wheat germ. As in a pound of good veggies a day or a quarter pound of wheat germ. Raw or minimally cooked without discarding any cooking water. Also in smaller amounts, around a few spoonfuls: rice bran, oysters, brewer's yeast or sunflower seeds. Or instead of germ & bran, you can get large amounts of the whole grains they come from of course. You also need 1000-2000 IU vitamin D, which comes almost entirely from either a little UV sun or from supplements. And you need a couple servings of seafood a week or else a teaspoon of fish oil a day.

There are a lot of good spinach or broccoli recipes out there. You can also make a nice salad with equal parts cilantro, watercress and bean sprouts, dressed with a honey-ginger dressing. Wheat germ is used like breading in a lot of old health nut recipes, or it can go into smoothies or juice. It needs to be fresh or it tastes burnt as it gets rancid. Oh, and you probably don't want to use large amounts of anything right off the bat or you may end up hating me; work your way up.

[lostacres6]

Thanks surferjoe,
Here's everything I'm taking:
PM 1000 mg (2x500)
PC (Life Flo) twice a day
PM cream twice a day
MSM 4000 mg
L arginine 6000 mg
Shatavari 500 mg
FG (extract) 1800 mg FG (seed) 1830 (The seed is less expensive)
Pig placenta 2000 mg (500x4)
Hyaluronic Acid w/MSM 50 mg
Fennel 1440 mg (3x480)
WY 850 mg (2x425)
Premarin once a week
Ca, Vit D Multi Vit daily
Hormone test: estradiol 1.1, progesterone 477 ratio 434
testosterone 57

[lostacres6]

Forgot 2 more:
Black cumin (seed) 1600 (400x4)
GR 5525 in divided doses
I'm also prediabetic A1C is 6.8 It's genetic - runs in my family
My weight is 118 - 120 lbs 5'4"
Low carb diet similar to Atkins - for the diabetes

[surferjoe2007]

There's no prolactin on that test though, that would be good to know. You can try leaving out the fennel since it raises prolactin which could lower your dopamine. Others like the fenugreek might be further increasing what it does, so once the fennel is gone you may be able to tolerate the fenugreek more easily. Or even then you might need to take less fenugreek. What's the concentration on the fenugreek extract? That would tell you whether or not you're actually getting a lot more than before. If you want to lower prolactin / raise dopamine more aggressively, there is 2,500-10,000 mg mucuna pruriens and/or 500+ mg vitex. But again this is all guessing without a prolactin test.

Whole grains are linked to greatly reduced rates of diabetes, plus they're high in B vitamins, so you might want to allow grains if they're whole. Or you may instead try the foods on that list above such as large amounts of spinach (again, gradually introduce it). You can take a multi-B which may help a little, but it's missing a lot of what's in food.

[Lotus]

Isabelle’s posts helped me SO MUCH! I am still not 100% Sure of everything but i definitely learnt a lot my reading the information on her Program thread (here!)

Now.. im pretty sure i have some understanding now of how herbs are meant to be taken.. The one thing you need to know first is where your hormone levels are at.

(Please add or correct me if i am wrong)

for example my results showed me that i am progesterone deficient and estrogen dominant.. that means that i have to take herbs or sups that will encourage my progesterone levels to even out my Estrogen levels.

so...

the list below was developed by Isabelle, it contains some comments about why she takes certain ones on this list. im sure she wont mind me sharing this awesome list as she always does with others.



Phyto-estrogens:
Phyto-estrogens are plant based estrogens that you can take to increase estrogen levels
fenugreek seed (powdered and whole)
hops fowers (dried, not powdered)
fennel seed (dried and powdered, as tea)
licorice tea (estrogen, prolactin stimulant, anti-androgen, and progestin)
shatavari tea
red clover (because it's also a progestin)
wild yam (not a phyto-estrogen, but a 16α-hydroxyestrone blocker)
pueraria mirifica (too strong, and I have no experience with it)

Zearalenone:
i am not sure what Zearalenone is for, if someone does please colaborate
barley, oats, hops (can contain fusarium)
malt (certainly contains fusarium)
maize, wheat, buckwheat, rye (often contain fusarium)

Phyto-progestins:
I am asuming that these asre to help increase levels in progesterone
licorice tea
fennel seed tea
red clover
PC (cream, only for women who have progesterone deficiency)
"progesterone stops NBE progress dead in its tracks" (Wahaika)

Anti-androgens:
Will help to level out testosterone levels
spearmint tea (peppermint is more estrogenic)
saw palmetto berry
stinging nettle root
pumpkin seed oil
borage seed oil GLA (for hair loss)
Zinc, vitamin B6, and azelaic acid (in rye, barley, whole grain cereals)
Secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG), the main lignan in flax (linseed)
β-Sitosterol (the fytosterol in my SP SNR PSO Java tea formula)
Java tea (orthosiphon extract)
pygeum bark
wild yam (β-sitosterol)

Androgens:
oats stimulate androgen activity! It is an anti-estrogen
maca root boosts testosterone

Prolactin:
fenugreek seed
hops flowers
goat's rue (galega officinalis)
black seed (nigella sativa)
blessed thistle

Human Growth Hormone:
GABA, serotonin (= 5-HTP + Vitamin B6)
glandular therapy (bovine ovary)
pig placenta
lamb placenta
L-tyrosine
bee pollen

Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF1):
made in the breast tissue
hops flowers
deer velvet extract
glandular therapy (bovine ovary)
pig placenta
lamb placenta

Vitamin B complex:
"super hair formula" multi (> 50 mcg B12)
hair-skin-nails multi (no B12! Use together with meat, fish, dairy)
brewer's yeast

Folic acid:
spinach (preferably frozen), asparagus, broccoli, avocado, lettuce
beremeal
"super hair formula" multi (> 200 mcg B9)

Vitamin C:
"super hair formula" multi 1000 mg
hair-skin-nails multi 160 mg
tablets 70 mg
citrus (because it's an androgen)

Zinc 12-35 mg:
seafood (oysters!), meat, chicken, dairy, oats
hair-skin-nails multi 10 mg
"super hair formula" multi 5 mg
SP SNR PSO Java tea anti-androgen formula 9 mg
never skip a day: the body can't store zinc

Protein:
meat, chicken, fish, eggs
fortify shakes with milk protein powder
soy: slows the thyroid (or take kelp and L-tyrosine with it)

Healthy fats:

borage oil (highest in GLA, prostaglandin precursor)
omega 3 (fish and flaxseed oil, cold pressed = without lignans)
omega 6 can cause acne
evening primrose oil contains less GLA than borage oil, and makes androgen excess worse

Butt:
maca root

Waist hip ratio:
goat's rue (galega officinalis)
black seed (nigella sativa)
wild yam (hypoglycemic, hypolipidemic)

Grow hair nails lashes:
millet, apple core, oats (contain silicic acid)
hair-skin-nails formula (200 mg horsetail, equisetum arvense, contains silicic acid)
gelatin
no MSM
no collagen

The next post will be about individual herb benefits

[Lotus]

FENUGREEK SEED EXTRACT

Fenugreek is a unique herb rich in phytoestrogens. Fenugreek aids in hormone production and facilitates the development of the mammary glands that "feed" on estrogens. Trigonelline. This is a key ingredient for breast enhancement. (TOP)



SAW PALMETTO BERRY

Saw Palmetto is a small palm tree with large leaves and large deep red-black berries. Saw Palmetto berries contain an oil that has a variety of phytosterols. Studies have shown Saw Palmetto to successfully reverse atrophy of the mammary gland, which assists breast enhancement. (TOP)



FENNEL SEED

Fennel has long been praised for its abundance of flavonoids. These compounds exert mild estrogenic effects and are completely harmless and non-toxic, resulting in safe breast enhancement. (TOP)



L-TYROSINE

A naturally occurring amino acid, Tyrosine plays an important role in the functioning of the adrenal, pituitary, and thyroid glands, which control hormone production. Some studies suggest that Tyrosine may also stimulate the production of growth hormone, which helps build muscle and reduce body fat. (TOP)



PACIFIC KELP

Kelp is an excellent source of minerals from the sea, including iodine, which is essential for proper thyroid function. (TOP)



DAMIANA LEAF

Damiana is a small shrub high in phytochemicals such as alpha-pinene, beta-carotene, beta-pinene and beta-sisterol. Damiana is primarily used to treat female hormone imbalances. This assists in the natural breast enhancement process. (TOP)



DONG QUAI ROOT

For centuries, this Asian root has been used to treat menopausal symptoms such as hot flashes and cramps. Dong Quai has been shown to assist the body in efficiently using hormones. (TOP)



BLACK COHOSH ROOT EXTRACT

Numerous studies have shown the medical benefits of Black Cohosh. Studies suggest that Black Cohosh is similar to the drugs used in hormone replacement therapy. (TOP)



OAT GRASS

Oat Grass (Avena Sativa) is rich in saponins, flavonoids, minerals, and alkaloids necessary for a healthy hormonal system. (TOP)



BLESSED THISTLE HERB

Blessed Thistle has long been used by women around the world as a hormonal balancing agent. (TOP)



HOPS FLOWER

Hops flower is a shrub rich in flavonoids, whose action in regulating the hormonal production facilitates development of the mammary glands. This is essential for natural breast enhancement. (TOP)

It's all here in our Breast Nexus Forum, all we have to do is search!

[lostacres6]

Isabelle’s posts helped me SO MUCH! I am still not 100% Sure of everything but i definitely learnt a lot my reading the information on her Program thread (here!)

Now.. im pretty sure i have some understanding now of how herbs are meant to be taken.. The one thing you need to know first is where your hormone levels are at.

(Please add or correct me if i am wrong)

for example my results showed me that i am progesterone deficient and estrogen dominant.. that means that i have to take herbs or sups that will encourage my progesterone levels to even out my Estrogen levels.

so...

the list below was developed by Isabelle, it contains some comments about why she takes certain ones on this list. im sure she wont mind me sharing this awesome list as she always does with others.



Phyto-estrogens:
Phyto-estrogens are plant based estrogens that you can take to increase estrogen levels
fenugreek seed (powdered and whole)
hops fowers (dried, not powdered)
fennel seed (dried and powdered, as tea)
licorice tea (estrogen, prolactin stimulant, anti-androgen, and progestin)
shatavari tea
red clover (because it's also a progestin)
wild yam (not a phyto-estrogen, but a 16α-hydroxyestrone blocker)
pueraria mirifica (too strong, and I have no experience with it)

Zearalenone:
i am not sure what Zearalenone is for, if someone does please colaborate
barley, oats, hops (can contain fusarium)
malt (certainly contains fusarium)
maize, wheat, buckwheat, rye (often contain fusarium)

Phyto-progestins:
I am asuming that these asre to help increase levels in progesterone
licorice tea
fennel seed tea
red clover
PC (cream, only for women who have progesterone deficiency)
"progesterone stops NBE progress dead in its tracks" (Wahaika)

Anti-androgens:
Will help to level out testosterone levels
spearmint tea (peppermint is more estrogenic)
saw palmetto berry
stinging nettle root
pumpkin seed oil
borage seed oil GLA (for hair loss)
Zinc, vitamin B6, and azelaic acid (in rye, barley, whole grain cereals)
Secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG), the main lignan in flax (linseed)
β-Sitosterol (the fytosterol in my SP SNR PSO Java tea formula)
Java tea (orthosiphon extract)
pygeum bark
wild yam (β-sitosterol)

Androgens:
oats stimulate androgen activity! It is an anti-estrogen
maca root boosts testosterone

Prolactin:
fenugreek seed
hops flowers
goat's rue (galega officinalis)
black seed (nigella sativa)
blessed thistle

Human Growth Hormone:
GABA, serotonin (= 5-HTP + Vitamin B6)
glandular therapy (bovine ovary)
pig placenta
lamb placenta
L-tyrosine
bee pollen

Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF1):
made in the breast tissue
hops flowers
deer velvet extract
glandular therapy (bovine ovary)
pig placenta
lamb placenta

Vitamin B complex:
"super hair formula" multi (> 50 mcg B12)
hair-skin-nails multi (no B12! Use together with meat, fish, dairy)
brewer's yeast

Folic acid:
spinach (preferably frozen), asparagus, broccoli, avocado, lettuce
beremeal
"super hair formula" multi (> 200 mcg B9)

Vitamin C:
"super hair formula" multi 1000 mg
hair-skin-nails multi 160 mg
tablets 70 mg
citrus (because it's an androgen)

Zinc 12-35 mg:
seafood (oysters!), meat, chicken, dairy, oats
hair-skin-nails multi 10 mg
"super hair formula" multi 5 mg
SP SNR PSO Java tea anti-androgen formula 9 mg
never skip a day: the body can't store zinc

Protein:
meat, chicken, fish, eggs
fortify shakes with milk protein powder
soy: slows the thyroid (or take kelp and L-tyrosine with it)

Healthy fats:

borage oil (highest in GLA, prostaglandin precursor)
omega 3 (fish and flaxseed oil, cold pressed = without lignans)
omega 6 can cause acne
evening primrose oil contains less GLA than borage oil, and makes androgen excess worse

Butt:
maca root

Waist hip ratio:
goat's rue (galega officinalis)
black seed (nigella sativa)
wild yam (hypoglycemic, hypolipidemic)

Grow hair nails lashes:
millet, apple core, oats (contain silicic acid)
hair-skin-nails formula (200 mg horsetail, equisetum arvense, contains silicic acid)
gelatin
no MSM
no collagen

The next post will be about individual herb benefits

I miss Isabelle. Although I learned a ton from her, NBE is still a mystery to me when it comes to getting the right ingrediants that are successful for my own personal growth. I'm thankful for people like you to assist me.

[Lotus]

I miss Isabelle. Although I learned a ton from her, NBE is still a mystery to me when it comes to getting the right ingrediants that are successful for my own personal growth. I'm thankful for people like you to assist me.

Aw shucks! Thank You!


Isabelle was such an incredible contributor!, I could never fill her shoes!
I read her thread regularly, I imagine if we shared the content would be fast and furious!. Abi and Isabelle has given me so much inspiration!

I think we should update or create a new thread like this!, I've gathered so much info on NBE and love sharing. Interested????