[Kell92]

Hi this is my first post. I'm currently taking PM caps & I use the Spray. I have had great results and I am so happy. I saw today that SP at 2000MG a day helps. I am going the NBE route for now, and if the results are good I will carry on. I'm worried if I add SP that it might stop the PM doing its great work, and that it could cause erections. I have a fear of anything down there and there will be a day when it will be removed, seriously I hate it, it screws with my mind. Please could you help me? I don't care about anything working, I don't like sex, I just want to increase boobs and round off a lot more. Like I said I just take PM ATM , and my measure is 38C, life is good but I want a bigger bum and I want my T levels as low as I can get them. Will SP help? I'm tempted to order anti androgens but will give SP a chance if it will work. Thanks Kell.

[Isabelle]

Welcome Kell,

I don't know anyone who completed a transition on herbs, so I hope other forum members contribute here. I'm afraid you need professional help too. So far, nearly everyone who took enough PM, up to 3,000 mg, was eventually at easy with "down there". Only two went on to HRT, and only one still posts here from time to time. At the end of the day, you will need a surgeon, and you keep more options open if you play it by the book from the start. A gender clinic can simply refuse to take a DIY as a patient.

Your questions about DHT are simple enough to answer, though. Like dutasteride, it just inhibits 5α-reductase, the enzyme that makes dihydrotestosterone (DHT) from testosterone. All effects of DHT will stop: oily skin, acne, libido. Brow bone growth will stop, but not reverse of course. Male pattern baldness, facial and body hair will stop becoming any worse, but will be reversed partially at best.

DHT maintains men's ability to cope with stress, as does progesterone in women. In the long run, SP and other 5α-reductase inhibitors will leave you defenseless, and even suicidal. PM users on the forum report better mood, like you do, but we don't know if that will be enough to offset the loss of DHT in the end. On this forum, PM users only take SP if they have acne, and only for the first six months on PM. There is β-sitosterol in PM. That's an anti-androgen too. It can handle the acne by itself after six months.

PM affects fertility more than SP. It was only really studied in rats, and I think the damage was reversible.

Skeletal muscle growth reacts to testosterone directly, so it will continue even without DHT. SP will not decrease testosterone. So limit your workouts to butt exercises only. There are two butt herbs: maca and aguaje. There is little experience with the latter on the forum. Other than that, you will have to rely on PM to round your figure. Maca will increase libido and erections, SP won't.

Please understand that a transition regime is different. The herbs will not chemically castrate you. You will have to rely on the β-sitosterol in PM, or on other anti-androgens, until after orchiectomy.

[Kell92]

Thanks so much, I got a 200 450mg Sp that I will just chuck away. I can't stress enough how I feel. I have a partner and obviously we don't have intercourse, but we love one another. She supports me and stands by me in everything, so I really do count my blessings. I don't have a libido at all, but from time to time I feel a movement and I can't explain how it disturbs me. I didn't develope properly and I have always looked feminine. At around 10 yrs old I started to bud and at 14 my breasts were very full. I tried to fit in but I couldn't do it and to be honest school was a living hell. I met my partner and she made me feel human and not some freak I thought I was. I told her everything and she was just lovely. My mum was also awesome as I grew up, without them both I think I would of done something stupid.

I only discovered PM 2 yrs ago and I take the 2000mg a day dose, 2x500mg in the morning and 2x500mg at night, i use the spray 3 times a week. I've filled out and I should be happy but I can't stand it down there. I literally have a panic attack as soon as I feel it move, it really does have to go I can't imagine my whole life with it no way. I've been in and out of psychiatric hospitals and I have never had a doctor that I can open up to. There was a female doctor who had a rough idea what was messing my head up but I freaked out when I was asked. I know my psychiatrist would be ok with me, but I'm not ready to spill it all out how I feel, and he's ot the right doctor i believe to spill it all out. Im diagnosed with panic disorder. I've seen loads of your stuff and I know you know your stuff regarding the medical side of things. I've watched many docramentries and the after care is quite scary, also the constant infections etc would concern me. I feel so desperate, but like I said I am very blessed having someone who genuinely loves me for who I am.

I will be consistent with the PM and give it another year or more. Thanks for taking the time to answer me it's really helped cus I would of took the SP. Everyone keeps talking about the new PM anteriol do, what is it? and why is it stronger if it's still 500mg? I don't get it. I'm using pm UK ATM but will change if you know a better one. Thanks Isabelle, forgive the typing as I'm on my phone. Every blessing, Kell.

[Portia74]

So touching... I wish you all the best, Kell.
It's wonderful to have someone who loves you how you are... I wish I was so lucky too... I'm still not sure...

[Isabelle]

OK Kell, thank you for explaining,

Now I understand. PM will not take away the panic.

Be careful with the SP label. If it's an extract, 600 mg a day is plenty. If it's powdered dried whole berries, people take up to 3,000 mg. You will need less because of the PM. As soon as the androgen symptoms are gone, you are taking enough.

There are only two or three reports on the new Ainterol on the forum, and opinions differ. So this will take time. Most people on the forum take Ainterol. Some switched to Siriporn, but they are switching back because Siriporn stopped printing expiration dates quite recently. Only a couple used UK, but because of the panic, I'd say stick to what you know.

More people start taking Biovea now, but there is little experience yet. If you go for price, check out Thanyaporn at Thaiherbalproducts.com. Puerariathai have Certificates of Analysis on the site, but they have only powders and sliced roots.

[Pansy-Mae]

Everyone keeps talking about the new PM anteriol do, what is it? and why is it stronger if it's still 500mg? I don't get it. I'm using pm UK ATM but will change if you know a better one.

Hi Kell, and welcome.

I may be able to add a little bit to the excellent advice that Isabelle has given you.

Firstly, according to Ainterol themselves, they have developed a new strain of the plant with more phyto-estrogen in it and secondly they claim to have developed an improved drying process. All of which means that if both those things are true then one of the new 500mg capsules contains more phyto-estrogen than an old one - think of a can of beer, same size can but could be 1%, 3% or 5% alcohol.

As for brand, I used Ainterol ( the old one) for over a year and it worked fine to begin with but then I stopped growing. Since Christmas I've switched to PM UK on the basis that a change is as good as a rest, but it hasn't made any difference, so I think the problem is my body not the brand of PM.

Finally, a former member on here used PM UK to grow from nothing to 38C. She also claimed significant changes to legs and bum. She is heading the full transition route, but fell out with us on here and went off to do her own thing. You could do searches for Chrissiegirl and then later just Chrissie ( she changed her name on here).

Hope this helps a little.

[Kell92]

All this info has really helped me, thank you for taking the time to reply. Today pansy I ordered 300 caps of the new brand you are talking about, usually I use the UK brand. I think the Uk brand has been fantastic, but I am going for a change for a short time to see if I can get bigger. Also ordered Dutasteride what Isabelle was talking about. Do any of you folks know how many I will need to take ? And please know I don't care about impotance, libido, etc, I've always had problems and always will as long as I am like this. I have read chrissies stuff on here b4 and could see there was a bit of tension.

I'm taking SP like you said, but I think I will have to stop when taking Dutasteride? I read somewhere you can't take the two together? If I can could you please let me know. Lol that's a great way to describe strengths! I really hope for something stronger. Just to add a bit from myself that may help you. After 3 months, try stopping for 2 weeks. I did and I do this, it works for me. I noticed my nipples increased dramatically when I first did this, I'm getting the pancake effect!! Lol. But on a serious note it's good to have abreak. 2weekz is sufficient for a break and for you to see a difference. It's great to have some feed back and thank you for telling me about Dutasteride. I took finasteride last year, but it messed with my sleep. Also I became the biggest emotional wreck you can imagine. I took 10mg a day , and 5 is the max I think? Wow I drove everyone insane! and cried at anything!! Even an advert would start me off.

It's great to get the right info and from experienced people who know there stuff. Last night my mind was doing overtime thinking I need to speak to a doctor that is clued up on gender issues. Surely I can get some help if this triggers my depression off. When I get Low I get low, I shut myself away from everyone and it's time I spoke to someone from my surgery. For now I am happy with what I have to go on. It said it will take 2 weeks for the PM & 7-14 for the Dutasteride. I will keep you updated. Lots of love. Kell. X

[Pansy-Mae]

I don't know if there is an actual conflict between SP and Dutasteride, but its certainly a bit of a waste of money to take both at the same time.

Dutasteride and Finasteride do a similar job, although Dut suppresses both forms of 5-a reductase whereas Fin inhibits only one, so the Dut may do more for you if you are lucky. OTOH if you had a bad reaction to Fin then be careful and heed any warning signs this time around.

There is a clinical trial that says that 5mg Finasteride is no more effective than 1mg, don't know if the same applies to Dut, but bottom line is don't take more of anything than you actually need - it's a waste of money, doesn't achieve anything and you may have a bad reaction.