[Dynseli]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/ <b>An Update on Plant Derived Anti-Androgens</b>

The herbs mentioned here could be used during the follicular phase, and possibly some could be used other times too.

[Lotus]

I'm not so sure about Aromatases. But Chasteberry increases LH. Hops decreases LH, but has other tissue promoting properties. From this, I'd theorize to use hops, but cycle off of it during the follicular phase, when more LH is needed.

Ok thanks,

It's just something that I've been looking into, increased LH for higher levels of Aromatase to convert T for both males and females into E, there's been some published research though regarding it.


Green increases SHBG and is 25% flavonoid

So Aromatases decrease testosterone and increase estrogens? could be so. During the follicular phase, testosterone is responsible for inhibiting growth. Higher LH is correlated to less breast tissue loss during follicular phase. I'd like to see a study that verifies the connection between all of the above, before making that assumption.
Could chasteberry, spearmint, green tea, nettles, and saw palmetto be aromatases?

Aromatase

• There's an enzyme in the bodies of both men and women called aromatase. Its primary action is to produce female sex hormones, or estrogens. It produces them from male sex hormones (androgens) such as testosterone and their precursors.
  

• Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
  

• If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).
  

• If you decrease the activity of aromatase, you can decrease levels of female sex hormones, while increasing relative levels of male sex hormones, e.g. testosterone.
  

• Men's bodies normally contain some level of estrogens, in addition to testosterone and their kind. Likewise, women's bodies contain some level of male androgens including testosterone.
  

• The ratio of male-to-female hormones contributes to our masculinity or femininity. Aromatase is one chemical that can tweak that ratio. It operates the same in both men and women, although an array of compounds can affect its activity.
  

________________________________________________________________

Testosterone-has two metabolites that pose potential problems for aging males and also for bodybuilders and athletes. One is estradiol (testosterone is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase) and the other is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase). As men age, there is a dramatic decrease in testosterone production, but without a corresponding decrease in the production of estradiol and DHT. Even though testosterone levels have plummeted, the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is maintained, or even accelerated, and more testosterone is also being aromatized in fatty tissues. This creates excess levels of estradiol and, as a consequence, a blood level ratio of testosterone to estradiol that continues to decline, tipping the scale in balance of an estradiol-dominant environment.


Effects of Luteinizing Hormone and Follicle-Stimulating Hormone and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-I on Aromatase Activity and P450 Aromatase Gene Expression in the Ovarian Follicles of Red Seabream, Pagrus major1
http://www.biolreprod.org/content/68/5/1...l#target-2

Effects of follicle stimulating hormone on estradiol-17β production and P-450 aromatase (CYP19) activity and mRNA expression in brown trout vitellogenic ovarian follicles in vitro
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...8004000589


In females, FSH increases aromatase activity, enhancing this conversion;
http://healyourselfathome.com/SUPPORTING..._MAIN.aspx

Can't find any human tests yet, so......

Nettle root and Chastebery might have some influence,

This goes deeper into the enzymes

FAQ-Enzymes affected by NBE (Bio-male section)
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=20327

[rocketmelon]

your welcome , good cleavage and size ..mine aren't "small" but they don't get on with one another >=/ so my cleavage would not be as sexy as yours ..unless I push them together xD

yes I do xD but they are before's pictures at the moment ..I'm hoping with good results I'll get after's....I've been taking pictures very often .......one thing I really wanted to do was a breast growth gif frame by frame ..I think that be awesome..however I need to take pictures angled better =/ and need to grow at lest one full cup xD so I can't promise any amazing pictures yet ;]..plus I do not know how it will go so i can't promise I'll get a gif...but I'll keep you all updated If I grow and should get before and afters ..if they do grow you can take credit seeing I'm getting that creamV
btw thank you so much I'm so excited I'm getting some pc c= ..the brand you give me was unavailable in my currency but I got a close one with 2percent bio-identical hormone in it so l will be cream with real progesterone ...it had wild yam few other herbs and oil but as long as it had what I wanted I'm happy...was by swanson had good reveiws and was good priceI'm just planning on using it pms week ;]

adding to my favorites
..I heard damiana had progesterone (think why it helps with libido too when helping with deficiency ) ..I love the taste of it ^^ ...heard of the bloodroot too ..I was very interested in it but I heard it can be toxic ..oregano is very high ..I get that spice for 1.50 at the supermarket ;]
do you think these oral herbs progesterone can be absorbed to a small degree? I feel my spices and herbs have helped pms mood xD for me believe it or not I'm pms now ;3 eee...
it's nice to see herbal sites on cancer ..I wish doctors gave more natural treatments the amount of anti cancer and free radical healing is unbelievable in live foods *_* and their are herbal cancer forms too! as well as nbe c=
keep researching ;D gonna study this chart ...really is helpful .....ah I use nutmeg too ..I heard it had can cause nasty hallucinations in large amounts tho ah ..at lest 10 of those are spices so cool! ^^ who can't afford spice =3 starbucks coffee is pricier


any way thanx for the table keep up the research.......and would oyu ever want to get a job in an herbal store ;]? I think it be awesome I'm studying art xD though

c; keep growing!

[Lotus]

your welcome , good cleavage and size ..mine aren't "small" but they don't get on with one another >=/ so my cleavage would not be as sexy as yours ..unless I push them together xD

yes I do xD but they are before's pictures at the moment ..I'm hoping with good results I'll get after's....I've been taking pictures very often .......one thing I really wanted to do was a breast growth gif frame by frame ..I think that be awesome..however I need to take pictures angled better =/ and need to grow at lest one full cup xD so I can't promise any amazing pictures yet ;]..plus I do not know how it will go so i can't promise I'll get a gif...but I'll keep you all updated If I grow and should get before and afters ..if they do grow you can take credit seeing I'm getting that creamV

No pressure, lol.
Good luck, I'm pulling for ya!!!

btw thank you so much I'm so excited I'm getting some pc c= ..the brand you give me was unavailable in my currency but I got a close one with 2percent bio-identical hormone in it so l will be cream with real progesterone ...it had wild yam few other herbs and oil but as long as it had what I wanted I'm happy...was by swanson had good reveiws and was good priceI'm just planning on using it pms week ;]

Please let me know how it works out.

adding to my favorites
..I heard damiana had progesterone (think why it helps with libido too when helping with deficiency ) ..I love the taste of it ^^ ...heard of the bloodroot too ..I was very interested in it but I heard it can be toxic ..oregano is very high ..I get that spice for 1.50 at the supermarket ;]
do you think these oral herbs progesterone can be absorbed to a small degree? I feel my spices and herbs have helped pms mood xD for me believe it or not I'm pms now ;3 eee...
it's nice to see herbal sites on cancer ..I wish doctors gave more natural treatments the amount of anti cancer and free radical healing is unbelievable in live foods *_* and their are herbal cancer forms too! as well as nbe c=
keep researching ;D gonna study this chart ...really is helpful .....ah I use nutmeg too ..I heard it had can cause nasty hallucinations in large amounts tho ah ..at lest 10 of those are spices so cool! ^^ who can't afford spice =3 starbucks coffee is pricier

It's pretty cool when we find such information that suits NBE...

any way thanx for the table keep up the research.......and would oyu ever want to get a job in an herbal store ;]? I think it be awesome I'm studying art xD though

Haha, I think I'd enjoy it, you know what they say?, find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life....

[Dynseli]

FSH is correlated to less breast tissue, at least during the follicular phase. http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/145/7/571.long

white peony is an aromatase according to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...objectonly full text here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/

[Lotus]

FSH is correlated to less breast tissue, at least during the follicular phase. http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/145/7/571.long

Yes, days 5-10. And the fact they were on bcp.

white peony is an aromatase according to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...objectonly full text here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/

Yes, it's a great supplement to have in a program, we've covered it quite a bit and have members taking it, essentially we should be doing WP all day long, lol. The one thing I'd like to find out about WP is this,

White Peony (Paeonia lactiflora) Paeoniflorin inhibits the production of testosterone and promotes the activity of aromatase - the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen (7)

Is that total T or free T?, haven't been able to track that down yet.

Curious about this statement in the side bar about spearmint,

Spearmint (Mentha spicata[Labiatae]) Decreases free testosterone, increases LH, FSH and estradiol. Reduction in patient reported measures of hirsutism (9, 10)

Couldn't find the info to back up the statement about increases to FSH and estradiol, so we need to get that solved ASAP because that's new and could prove to be huge if there's any truth to it.

[Dynseli]

The two links are of the same article, just one singles out the table, which you quoted. There is a little bit more information in the article. Also, in the table under the 'reference' column, there is a number that will show you the original study where the information was taken, and there are also numbered references in the text. It might be behind a paywall. Otherwise, try PMC, or use free articles or abstracts under Pubmed.

[Dynseli]

It is taken from this abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1897494
It looks like it is referring to White Peony, and its constituents, but that needs verification.

It says "Paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin" reduce "testosterone production but did not change that of delta 4-androstenedione and estradiol." The next two sentences say it changes the ratios. It concludes, "These results suggest that paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin affect the conversion between delta 4-androstenedione and testosterone to inhibit testosterone synthesis and stimulate the aromatase activity to promote estradiol synthesis by the direct action on the rat proestrous ovary."

[Dynseli]

white peony is an aromatase according to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...objectonly full text here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/

Curious about this statement in the side bar about spearmint,

Spearmint (Mentha spicata[Labiatae]) Decreases free testosterone, increases LH, FSH and estradiol. Reduction in patient reported measures of hirsutism (9, 10)

Couldn't find the info to back up the statement about increases to FSH and estradiol, so we need to get that solved ASAP because that's new and could prove to be huge if there's any truth to it.

It is taken from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19585478 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310494 They both say spearmint causes a reduction in free testosterone. Both results differ in reduction of total testosterone. Both studies also say there was an increase in LH and FSH. One mentions no significant changes to dehydroepiandrostenedione (DHEA), and an increase in estradiol.

[rocketmelon]

your welcome , good cleavage and size ..mine aren't "small" but they don't get on with one another >=/ so my cleavage would not be as sexy as yours ..unless I push them together xD

yes I do xD but they are before's pictures at the moment ..I'm hoping with good results I'll get after's....I've been taking pictures very often .......one thing I really wanted to do was a breast growth gif frame by frame ..I think that be awesome..however I need to take pictures angled better =/ and need to grow at lest one full cup xD so I can't promise any amazing pictures yet ;]..plus I do not know how it will go so i can't promise I'll get a gif...but I'll keep you all updated If I grow and should get before and afters ..if they do grow you can take credit seeing I'm getting that creamV

No pressure, lol.
Good luck, I'm pulling for ya!!!

btw thank you so much I'm so excited I'm getting some pc c= ..the brand you give me was unavailable in my currency but I got a close one with 2percent bio-identical hormone in it so l will be cream with real progesterone ...it had wild yam few other herbs and oil but as long as it had what I wanted I'm happy...was by swanson had good reveiws and was good priceI'm just planning on using it pms week ;]

Please let me know how it works out.

adding to my favorites
..I heard damiana had progesterone (think why it helps with libido too when helping with deficiency ) ..I love the taste of it ^^ ...heard of the bloodroot too ..I was very interested in it but I heard it can be toxic ..oregano is very high ..I get that spice for 1.50 at the supermarket ;]
do you think these oral herbs progesterone can be absorbed to a small degree? I feel my spices and herbs have helped pms mood xD for me believe it or not I'm pms now ;3 eee...
it's nice to see herbal sites on cancer ..I wish doctors gave more natural treatments the amount of anti cancer and free radical healing is unbelievable in live foods *_* and their are herbal cancer forms too! as well as nbe c=
keep researching ;D gonna study this chart ...really is helpful .....ah I use nutmeg too ..I heard it had can cause nasty hallucinations in large amounts tho ah ..at lest 10 of those are spices so cool! ^^ who can't afford spice =3 starbucks coffee is pricier

It's pretty cool when we find such information that suits NBE...

any way thanx for the table keep up the research.......and would oyu ever want to get a job in an herbal store ;]? I think it be awesome I'm studying art xD though

Haha, I think I'd enjoy it, you know what they say?, find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life....

aw thanx c=
one question...(sorrry your just so amazing ..this form should be employing you) what oil for massage do you personally think is best (would it be cycled?) ..how do you feel about flaxseed oil?
could you do your science thingy and tell me why you pick that oil? xDDD