[LookingForward2NBE]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/....html?_r=0

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/201...-retailers

Any thoughts on these findings? Considering it's from 2015, I'm hoping more testing was done and with brand names included instead of just general supplements. It's scary considering so many here are taking saw palmetto and that was found to have little to no herbal ingredients at every location. Makes me wonder if these things happen in "high-quality" supplements sold online and in independent stores.

Many would like to believe even reputable companies by name can't fall to this but the simple fact of the matter is.. Many many many of the ingredients come from China and India and as I reported a long time back and having personally been there and audited facilities I can tell you.. It's a serious issue and one that is very complex and difficult to deal with. Most companies who fall to bad outcomes may or may not have known what they were buying.. A serious number of ingredient suppliers just flat out lie and provide certificates of analysis claiming they are selling xyz when they are just selling talc, dried teas etc. unless it's a standardized supplement with a full analytical procedure but even then.. Greater then 75% of the companies importing these ingredient do not do analytical tests.. Most just release with a cofa from a supplier organolytic tests. Ie looks like, tastes like.. A In house standard.. And they issue their own cofa with the results from supplier.

I know one company that was selling slicia in a supplement for a hair skin nails formula and put silicon dioxide in it.. sand.. The CEO knew and didn't care. Didn't lie on label but user thought they were buying bio available silica ... Nope. I won't even go into a batch of raspberry ketone from china and the micro load result that arrive and what it took together it to just below allowable amount to get it into a batch., which probably then had within 30d an Unallowable amount but CEO insisted... All legal but way way way not ok IMO and this was a product that sold well over 100,000 units...simply because it would have taken 120d to reship another batch by boat from china. The supplier in China said ok.. I'll send you a new cofa for you. Major eye roll, clueless idiots.

Problem with non standardized natural products is finger printing nIR is near impossible as where a product is grown ie soil and some products like tomatoes for example or have hundreds of varieties so unless the company only buys from one supplier and ensures it's the same plant and that supplier doesn't buy from other farms or open market it's near impossible to finger print it for testing. Good for synthetic.. Not so for natural raw plants.

I know GNC had a few companies that failed label claim, and some of the companies were shocked and blamed their manufacturers but it's not that simple.. To get oharmaceutical level quality would cause supp prices to rise dramatically, would limit choice on shelves and ruin the industry very fast.

For example, to just transfer a hplc test method to FDA quality could cost about 25,000.. Each run would cost about 1,500 for each lot imported.. That just 1 test.. Micro testing another 800, physical tests another 200.. Per ingredient!

So a small to medium size company could spend let's say 50-100,000 to just to import and test 3-4 ingredients and then spend 5,000 for each import per year. If they sell 10,000 bottles which is a lot for small to medium size company.. That $10 per bottle just in testing.. Add in cost of ingredients, cost of manufacturing and shipping to a retailer... Plus the 50-100% markup.. Let alone marketing cost, staff, iliability insurance etc.. The test would represent easily the single most expensive part of a product and hence why many just go the cofa route and organolytic testing.. Or sups would cost 2x as much if not more. Granted, most would use the ingredient in multiple products to offset costs and economies of scale etc so the costs would be spread over a number of products. Realistically, an end user has no way of knowing.. I can recommend a few brands I know that do the testing but I don't want to seem to be linked to them so would rather not. That's one of the reason it's important to buy standardized ingredients, higher purity.. Not a dehydrated one.. Ie 4:1 or 10:1 extract which is just a dehydrated herb.. But something like 80% active ingredient from plant xyz. Significantly more expensive but significantly higher assurance. If you but just simple raw plant.. Honestly, it's luck of the draw if you are getting what you pay for..and the company you buy from May have no idea that they didn't sell you what they put on the label.

For example, dried cucumber powder vs dried eggplant powder.. Good luck.. Import companies just hope that China or India don't lie on the cofa when they say it's cucumber..it could just be rice flour.. And often is.. Or cheap powder gelatin... Usually what they provide is harmless but equally not effective as a result.