[phaedra]

Hi everyone. I was born female and want to stay female, just to clarify, I don't want my male hormones to throw anyone off. I have PCOS and I am told my only imbalances are high DHEA (three times what it is supposed to be), Insulin resistance and I don't ovulate regularly, so I would assume that my estrogen is high in ratio to progesterone.
I also feel like I may have a thyroid block due to high estrogen resulting in hypothyroidism. I don't know about the thyroid thing for sure, so let's just leave that part out of the equation and you can address it separately if you want to. I'm going to post my thread under a few categories, because I really need all of the advice I can get.
Anyway, I have tuberous breasts that are less than an AA cup and probably less than an AAA, but I have never seen the latter, so I'm not sure. They are really bad, though.
Does anybody know why this happened to me? I feel like is must be the DHEA. I have black hirsutism and I am naturally blonde. I also have acne and hold all of my weight in my stomach. If I am able to lower my DHEA, do you think my body will start accumulating fat in feminine areas such as my butt and breasts? Do you think my breasts will bottom out with the DHEA lowered?
What kind of herbs should I take? All of the usual seem bad for my situation, because they all seem to raise or act like estrogen which I have too much of and too much turns into male hormones which I definitely do not want! Does Goat's Rue really raise estrogen? Does Saw Palmetto lower DHEA or only testosterone? Does it raise estrogen? Does anything in this world lower DHEA? It seems everything only lowers testosterone!
I really don't know much of anything about this, so please inform me all that you can.

[Dynseli]

Nettle, pygeum africana, white peony, and red reishi have different anti-androgen effects. Too many refined sugars and not enough healthy fats could be bad towards insulin resistance. There are many threads already available with a lot of information that has to be sorted through, to find out which is the updated correct information. Existing threads specifically have information on anti-androgens including anti-reductases, and aromatases. Also, you can search the National Library of Medicine for bits and pieces.

[Lotus]

phaedra,


Welcome to BN,

Does anybody know why this happened to me? I feel like is must be the DHEA. I have black hirsutism and I am naturally blonde. I also have acne and hold all of my weight in my stomach. If I am able to lower my DHEA, do you think my body will start accumulating fat in feminine areas such as my butt and breasts? Do you think my breasts will bottom out with the DHEA lowered?
What kind of herbs should I take? All of the usual seem bad for my situation, because they all seem to raise or act like estrogen which I have too much of and too much turns into male hormones which I definitely do not want! Does Goat's Rue really raise estrogen? Does Saw Palmetto lower DHEA or only testosterone? Does it raise estrogen? Does anything in this world lower DHEA? It seems everything only lowers testosterone!
I really don't know much of anything about this, so please inform me all that you can.

Here's some basic info in response to your question "Does anybody know why this happened to me? ".
Polycystic ovary syndrome, often shortened to PCOS, affects between 5 and 10 percent of American women, Robert Barbieri, M.D., of Harvard Medical School reports on UptoDate. Around 70 percent of women with PCOS have high androgen levels,

High DHEA-S levels along with elevated androstenedione and testosterone occur in PCOS. DHEA is produced mainly in the adrenal glands, with a small amount made in the ovary. Your body converts DHEA to testosterone. Between 50 to 75 percent of the testosterone in a woman's body comes from conversion of DHEA, with the rest produced by the ovary. The androgen DHEA-S is produced in the adrenal gland and high circulating levels of DHEA-S can occur when prolactin levels rise. Levels of prolactin, a hormone associated with lactation, are elevated in around 25 percent of women with PCOS, according to Dr. Marx. DHEA-S is also secreted with cortisol and cortisol levels rise during stress and in adolescence.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/432142...a-in-pcos/
http://www.uptodate.com/contents/polycys...the-basics


Tuberous breasts (or tubular breasts) are a result of a congenital abnormality of the breasts which can occur in both men and women (also see Hypoplasia), one or both breasts. During puberty breast development is stymied and the breasts fail to develop normally and fully. The exact cause of this is as yet unclear, however, a study in 2011 of the cells in the breasts of both males and females with tubular breasts suggested a genetic link in a disorder of collagen deposition.

Tuberous breast: Morphological study and overview of a borderline entity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328117/

Take a look at these links, you'll find info in the FAQ section on SP (GR- is estrogenic) , Fenugreek.

What kind of herbs should I take? All of the usual seem bad for my situation, because they all seem to raise or act like estrogen which I have too much of and too much turns into male hormones.

It makes more sense that you have an androgen problem rather than estrogen.


How to Lower Your DHEA Level
http://www.livestrong.com/article/275117...hea-level/

FAQ-What herbs are used for breast growth?
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=21602&page=11


Good luck.

[Miniusmrt]

Okay so I know this is old, but still a valid question for those of us that have an adrogen problem, and I know that I do. But take a look at my avi, that is me during pregnancy...so that right there is big proof that you can overcome excess androgens specifically DHEA cause that is my problem too. Of course after I had my daughters, my boobs shrunk right back down to the little A's that they are because the estrogen and progesterone dropped off a cliff. I have this idea to try organic red palm oil for massage along with my other routines because of the high level of tocopherols and other forms of vitamin E that are in it. Vitamin E is said to be able to balance the levels of DHEA naturally to what is normal for whatever gender we are- female of course. So I am going to give it a go for a few months and post results maybe by December since it's now September and I just added this in yesterday. But do some research...I'm also going to incorporate lots of chia and hemp into my protein shakes because of the omega 3's, which are apparently really good for boobie growing for the same reasons flax oil is. anyway I'll try and see what happens.

[Emmy76]

Hey Mini! First and foremost, I apologize that this is so long. But I was in a similar boat recently and getting on spironolactone (spiro) has literally changed my life and alleviate or resolve at least 5 other medical conditions (e.g: hairloss, hair in odd places like my toes and knuckles, etc.). I think that women like us, who have severely abnormal hormone levels, can benefit from spiro. Regardless of what you decide, I wish you the best in your NBE journey!
---
Sweetie, your hormone story sounds almost identical to mine. After years of not having a "real period" and persistent acne, I had my hormones tested and whoa. No one expected that because I am not insulin resistant, have always had an athletic looking build (I barely move and sometimes go on an exercise frenzy but maybe like once a year).

I'm a 32C but my breasts just look small unless you examine closely and know what you're looking for, you'll see that they're tuberous (out of my 8 first aunts on both sides and my grandmothers and my 5 great aunts, all of them used to be rail thin with glowing skin and a minimum of a full 34D cup. It's likely I've these genetics activated especially since I have so many other features -- we all look freakishly related to the point that people can spot my 90+ year old great aunt in a crowd since she looks so much like me).

With all of that being said, no one suspected me to have such out of sync hormone levels until I pressed to have them tested this past July since the hairdresser didn't want to cut my hair the way I wanted it because she felt bad for the "bald like male spots" (male pattern baldness, but her English isn't the best) and insisted on cutting and styling it to help hide this. And my doctor refused to test me for it until I began to (quite literally) harass him and purposely act crazy, to do so. After 3 separate visits (I'd purposely keep him there chatting his ear off so he'd lose patient time and then be subsequently reprimanded, the longest visit was for 3.5 hours with an hour visit being the average) per week for a month, finding him on Facebook and his girlfriend's too and just trying to be as crazy as possible but not so crazy to the point where I'd get in trouble, I knew he'd reach his threshold and just ask me what I want to get me to leave him alone and just to --his words-- "calm down. And stop acting so weird, because he knows I'm not" and then BAM. Within 15 minutes, I was walking out of the place with a bandaid and waiting to hear back my hormone blood test results.

We got them back. The NP asked me my sex and gender. They also asked if I had any procedures as a child that I knew about. Yeah, they thought something was going on as I'm a born female with no genetic abnormalities with hormone levels so off the wall that I (as a naturally born female) should look way more masculine than I should and have other very apparent symptoms, not just slight hair loss (they attributed that to styling it and my straight perms...all of which I had a total of 2 in my entire life and 2.5 years apart. I don't even blow dry or color my hair!).

After trying a low carb diet and herbs to try to naturally decrease my testosterone levels and having very minimal to no results for a month (I was gassy and hungry all the time. But that's not a plus, lol), I went to an NP at my old dermatologist's office, since she once casually mentioned during my first visit to her doctor's office ever, that she doesn't think accutane would work well for me because she's pretty sure it's something that's underlying causing my acne and other skin issues, including my very puffy gums even though I'm a dental hygiene tyrant.

She started me out on 100 mg of spiro a day and within a month, oh my God, my world changed and I actually felt kind of normal for the first time in over a decade. 100 mg was not enough for me and she was hesitant to put me on a higher dose since I'm 5"5 and about 120. After a couple if more visits, we settled on 200 mg a day. It's typically considered the max dose for most females and typically reserved for overweight and obese females (I guess spiro's dosage system is typically based on weight? I don't know).

I lost a small amount of weight since being on 200 mg but am not too sure how much. My jeans don't feel as tight now that the small bit of tummy fat that I could never get to go away was finally gone. And I got an actual real like we are talking not only using 1 regular tampon and forgetting about it until 24 hours later and it's not saturated kind of period. It lasted for almost 3 full days and finished entirely in about 6. I GOT MY PERIOD! And I, literally, celebrated and had a mini "period party" with some friends at a bar. That's how much spiro will change your life.

Oh. And my facial skin "glows" now, like how it does with the rest of my aunts (olive skin that's slightly oily so it looks dewy). I actually have to use facial moisturizer since it's getting colder and I'm in New England (my aunts live in either Sicily or in the US where it's typically about 10-15 degrees warmer any day of the year). I'm sure that my skin wouldn't be so dry if I lived there like they do.

And while my boobs actually look slightly smaller since getting on the spiro, it's int because I've noticed that they're now more proportional than before since my breasts used to lack anything in the upper region and would be all contained at the base of it, so I looked like I had (what i call) a Snoopy looking boobs. This isn't as apparent as it was before and while I still lack fullness on the top, my boobs don't seem as spaced apart any more as I noticed that they look like as if some breast tissue has developed on the inside portion, closer to my chest. So, my bras are beginning to fill out a little better without my having to scoop my breasts into the correct position and adjusting as needed. And I haven't taken anything for breast growth or any massage since late July. So, I'll contribute this to the spiro.

Seriously chika, if you were in the same boat as me, check out spiro. It's only $1 month copay with my insurance, so I'm assuming it's cheap even without insurance. If it does wonders for you like it did for me, then we can try to get our overall health on track, be happy and then consider NBE and probably have great results. Cheers and good luck, I'll keep you in my thoughts

[missboobshirt]

All of these are really really good advice, but I'll put in my 2 cents too and I sympathize with you because I too have PCOS and excess androgen's are a bxxch! basically your body has way too much testosterone and male hormones. You should intake things that will lower these androgens, like spearmint tea is one. This will also help with acne.

The Noogleberry, Bovine Ovary & Progesterone Cream should help you. I know BO helps because it literally makes your body go back into puberty, it does help your boobs grow.

Birth control also helps with PCOS and might level your hormones. Taking one with both estrogen and progesterone should help lower your symptoms and might even help breast growth.

PM might help you too because of the estrogen in it.. but I think you should talk to a doctor before you put any hormones in your body, seeing as you have pcos. You might want to level your hormones out before you add more hormones into your body, that is what I am doing. You could look into an endocrinologist, they can give you the best advice if you tell them your plight.

Good luck, love <3