[Lotus]

Hi sweetheart, good to hear from you. I am currently on bo..can i combine pm with bo? Or will that be too much/ conflicting with each other?

Hugs for you Lotus!

Hi Hannah, 

I've missed you too. ? In the past year I've come across new information that should help cis-females in their pursuit for breast growth, and it will coordinate with menstrual cycles, but first let's talk about your question on BO.

Speaking from experience, when I combined PM & BO (2013) I nearly lost vision in my right eye requiring surgery to repair a retinal hemorrhage, it still bothers me today. I used Swanson's brand BO (now called Ovarian Glandular on Amazon.) IMHO a strong immune system is needed before starting BO. In 2013 (when I used BO) the going recommendations for BO was 16 pills per day of BO and 3,000 mg Pueraria Mirifica (PM), crazy huh?How much BO do you take Hannah?

I have no idea where the 16 pills of BO or  3,000mg PM a day needed for breast growth came from, certainly not found in scientific literature. Come to find out that the dosage of PM put some people in the hospital who developed DVT (deep vein thrombosis) and life long complications dealing with it.

This is an important question cis-females need to ask themselves..."will my BCP (birth control pills) comprise my NBE program" we can discuss this in the next post though.

As explained below, you can't be sure what hormones you're getting when using BO, is it more of an adaptogen?, or a precursor to testosterone or estrogen?....or just straight up progesterone?. 

If you take BO plus BCP you could be getting too much progesterone. And then there's the case of whats called the back door pathway of progesterone to DHT, lol there's such a thing. Some people (not all) have this genetic variant known as 3α-Androstanediol glucuronide...so basically it could raise androgens (via this backdoor pathway) and stop your breast growth possibly. It's verified through blood tests, or you might see more acne, excessive hair growth, oily skin, aggressive mood, etc. though this also is another sign of testosterone too, not just excessive DHT too. PCOS is another sign of DHT too, is it subject to this back door pathway too? it's quite possible.

Hi everyone, just wanted to share this post on BO I made over on the ladies a few years ago. One of many concerns about using BO is you have no idea what hormones you might be getting. Harder to say what stage of the estrous ovarian cycle each cow is in. If indeed there's more progesterone in BO and less pituitary then one has to be concerned with the back door pathway conversion of progesterone to DHT via the androgen 3α-Androstanediol Glucuronide. Which can be verified by a blood test to see if progesterone is increasing DHT. Or, a simple sign might be increased shaving, or a more aggressive mood. 

A primary feature of the androgen backdoor pathway is that 17α-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) can be 5α-reduced and finally converted to 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) via an alternative route that bypasses the conventional[3] intermediates androstenedione and testosterone.[1][6]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen...or_pathway

Hi Nefertiddy, 

I'm not a fan of BO (i had horrible side effects). Here's one of many issues I have with BO, (and I posted on this 5-6 years ago) we don't know when cattle are harvested. Meaning cows (heifers) have (roughly) a 21 day estrous cycle. 

Each cycle consists of a long luteal phase (days 1-17) where the cycle is under the influence of progesterone and a shorter follicular phase (days 18-21) where the cycle is under the influence of estrogen. The cycle begins with standing heat, or estrus. This time of peak estrogen secretion can last from 6 to 24 hours, with ovulation occurring 24 to 32 hours after the beginning of estrus.
https://beef.unl.edu/learning/estrous.shtml

Here's questions we should ask:

1)Is the BO from 100% grass fed/grass finished, free of antibiotics, pesticides, hormones, and GMO. 2) When was livestock harvested?, meaning when in an estrous cycle (this is most likely unobtainable). 
3) How long did the BO sit around before being frozen and dissected. 
4) Is the livestock subjected to synchronization?. This process shortens the breeding period to less than 5 days, instead of females being bred over a 21-day period, depending on the treatment regimen.

Ovaries from non-pregnant cows and heifers, obtained shortly after slaughter, were extracted with ethyl acetate and then defatted in cold 70% methanol.

4.33 μg. of progesterone  
0.79 μg- of Δ4-pregnene-20β-ol-3-one per gram of ovarian tissue. 
A trace of Δ4-androstene-3,17-dione or Δ4-pregnene-20α-ol-3-one and a very polar material were also detected.

I know BO has 17 β-estradiol (E2), it's difficult to quantify how much based on cell cultures though. Rather, we can say Testosterone is being synthesized (converted) to Estrogen by way of aromatase, which raises estrogen. 

But...seeing how short of time estrogen is stimulated in BO it's safe to say BO consists of more progesterone than estrogen. 

But when to supplement w/BO?. I'm gonna say in Luteal. 

The decision is up to you to Nefertiddy, try and see how it works. Though don't follow the old tired mantra of taking massive amounts. 2 per day to start works ok. 

wow...

The timing of slaughter is a very good point, I highly doubt that there is any consideration taken to the cycle of the cows... I can imagine that would complicate production and if they did the big brands would definitely advertise it. Maybe this could explain why some end up with androgenic effects (acne seems to be common) while others are greatly successful with it.

It seems to be sold out everywhere so I have some time to consider it. This was great insight, thank you so much!