11-01-2016, 10:54 PM
Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 12 2009 at 10:48 PM Shanie (Login menzie)
I am post menopause and had been on unprotected estrogen for many years because I was unable to take both hormones and I had severe menopause symptoms. I knew I had to find an alternative so I researched PM and started taking it at the recommended dose of 2 500mg per day. I felt great, no meno problems and after a month my breasts had firmed up and increased in size. After 1 1/2 months I started bleeding, a little at first and then it increased until I was passing clots. I sought medical advise and had a d&c. The results came back as hyperplasia with atypia (a pre-cancerous condition). I now need a hysterectomy. What is really odd about this is that I had a check-up and my uterus was fine 6 mos prior to this. I probably should have been taking a lower dose.
Does anyone know if atypia can happen this quickly or has the PM skewed the biopsy results or did the PM cause this? The company I bought it from says no. When I stopped taking PM the bleeding stopped. Should I ask for another biopsy before having a full hysterectomy? If I go ahead and have the hysterectomy would it be wise to start the PM again at a lower dose to help me with my menopause problems. Anyone have any suggestions?
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 13 2009, 4:28 AM
Let me see if I understand.
* You are post menopause except for the bleeding that you experienced. (Menopause is defined as no less than 12 months since your last period.)
* You were on unprotected estrogen for many years because you was unable to take both hormones and you had severe menopause symptoms.
1. What were the severe menopause symptoms?
2. You mentioneed "both" hormones. Assuming estrogen was one of them, what was the other?
3. Timeframes: How old are you now? How old were you when you started "unprotected estrogen?"
4. What is "unprotected" estrogen?
* What organ(s) have the hyperplasia & atypia?
* What company did you buy PM from?
>>"Should I ask for another biopsy before having a full hysterectomy?"
How long has it been since the last one along with the hyperplasia & atypia diagnosis?
Have you sought out any other opinions?
Wahaika
Shanie
(Login menzie)
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 13 2009, 8:53 PM
I am 67 and was 50 when I had my last period. I had night sweats, hot flushes, itchy crawly skin, memory lapses, hair loss, dry skin, depression, insomnia, incontinence, anxiety, muscle & joint pain, fatigue & headaches. At 51 I started out taking both estrogen & progesterone; this was an acceptable treatment at that time. I remained on these hormones for 6 yrs but because of an intolerance to progesterone I was put on estrogen only. That is what I mean by unprotected estrogen. Studies now have shown that this puts a woman at higher risk for breast & uterine cancer. The latest studies show that a woman should only be on hrt short term. I have been on low dose estrogen for several years and have regular monitoring for cancer. Last Nov I went off estrogen completely. At that time my tests were all fine.
The estrogen therapy helped very much with my symptoms except for insomnia. My symptoms now are less intense then they once were but pronounced enough that I sought a natural remedy. I researched PM, read most of the studies that have been done and I also researched the company I bought from - "Ainterol". I had some communication with the Dr they have on staff and he said I should not be taking PM with uterine atypia. Of course I did not know that at the time I started with PM. I sought medical attention after 3 mos on PM because the bleeding started after 1 1/2 mos, slowly at first & would stop & start but continued & ended up being very heavy. Bleeding for a women post meno is not a good thing. I received the test results of hyperplasia with atypia 3 wks ago. I do not know which came first, the pre-cancerous condition that was over looked or whether the dose I was taking was too high for my age & caused the problem or if PM affected the test results. One thing is for sure, when I stopped taking PM the bleeding seized and has remained that way. Having a full hysterectomy, which is the treatment being advised (I am seeking another medical opinion) should not be taken lightly.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 15 2009, 4:06 AM
To address whether PM in general would cause cancer, my opinion is no. But, like everything else estrogenic if cancer already exists, or the propensity toward it such as atypia or long duration of HRT, it could make it worse. An example of this is ovarian cysts. Those who already have a problem with ovarian cysts usually find that the estrogenic herbs make it worse. But they are not the cause of ovarian cysts - at least I have not seen any evidence of it - but they definitely exacerbate the problem.
To say that a particular brand of PM could cause cancer - who knows? In my opinion, based on reports of others, St Herb is the safest and has the least amount of side effects. But that is just my observation. I tend to ignore all the rest. Either way, I think that it would be extremely hard to prove that any particular brand made cancer appear out of nowhere and was the cause of it.
Cancer is very serious business. If hyperplasia with atypia are pre-cancerous conditions, how much (estimated) time do you have to try natural things before it turns cancerous? Years? Days? Unknown? What kind of cancer is your condition likely to produce? Something localized like a tumor? Something that generally covers everything and is not localized? How much of the uterus is affected? The entire uterus? An insignificantly small section were it not for being cancerous? Why is an entire hysterectomy being recommended if only the uterus is affected? Or are there other problems that a hysterectomy would address (such as the original problem that the HRT was trying to address) and you might as well just get it while they're in there? Will you need more HRT after the hysterectomy?
These are some of the questions that I would ask before making a decision.
As for natural alternatives to surgery, at this point it sounds like the damage has been done and you need to avoid cancer at all costs. Get doctors you trust and heed their advice. If you have time to try something natural then that is a different story but make sure that they are monitoring you regularly and often. It may be that if you wait a while the hyperplasia and atypia will be taken care of by your own body. There are things you could do to help this along. But make no mistake, cancer is something to be avoided. If your doctors are telling you that it is imminent then you might just have to go that route at that stage.
Starting PM again after the hysterectomy would not be a good first choice. There are other more mild considerations that could be considered first. And on the other hand, it is the same if you end up not needing a hysterectomy. PM would not be a good thing to go back to.
Shanie
(Login menzie)
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 16 2009, 12:10 AM
You make some good points, thank you. There is much to consider. I am making a list of questions to ask & doing my own research as well so I can make a informed decision.
jane
(no login)
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 19 2009, 6:27 AM
Good luck with your health. Have you noticed no major responsible supplement company in the US makes 500mg Pueraria Mirifica capsules. That's for a reason. They only make 100 mg supplement capsules in Thailand.
Even Dr. Wichai who did the only 3 month capsule study and represents products in Asia does not endorse 500mg capsules/ twice per day.
Does that tell anyone anything? Does anyone still believe its a good idea to use 1000mg/day.
jane
September 12 2009 at 10:48 PM Shanie (Login menzie)
I am post menopause and had been on unprotected estrogen for many years because I was unable to take both hormones and I had severe menopause symptoms. I knew I had to find an alternative so I researched PM and started taking it at the recommended dose of 2 500mg per day. I felt great, no meno problems and after a month my breasts had firmed up and increased in size. After 1 1/2 months I started bleeding, a little at first and then it increased until I was passing clots. I sought medical advise and had a d&c. The results came back as hyperplasia with atypia (a pre-cancerous condition). I now need a hysterectomy. What is really odd about this is that I had a check-up and my uterus was fine 6 mos prior to this. I probably should have been taking a lower dose.
Does anyone know if atypia can happen this quickly or has the PM skewed the biopsy results or did the PM cause this? The company I bought it from says no. When I stopped taking PM the bleeding stopped. Should I ask for another biopsy before having a full hysterectomy? If I go ahead and have the hysterectomy would it be wise to start the PM again at a lower dose to help me with my menopause problems. Anyone have any suggestions?
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 13 2009, 4:28 AM
Let me see if I understand.
* You are post menopause except for the bleeding that you experienced. (Menopause is defined as no less than 12 months since your last period.)
* You were on unprotected estrogen for many years because you was unable to take both hormones and you had severe menopause symptoms.
1. What were the severe menopause symptoms?
2. You mentioneed "both" hormones. Assuming estrogen was one of them, what was the other?
3. Timeframes: How old are you now? How old were you when you started "unprotected estrogen?"
4. What is "unprotected" estrogen?
* What organ(s) have the hyperplasia & atypia?
* What company did you buy PM from?
>>"Should I ask for another biopsy before having a full hysterectomy?"
How long has it been since the last one along with the hyperplasia & atypia diagnosis?
Have you sought out any other opinions?
Wahaika
Shanie
(Login menzie)
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 13 2009, 8:53 PM
I am 67 and was 50 when I had my last period. I had night sweats, hot flushes, itchy crawly skin, memory lapses, hair loss, dry skin, depression, insomnia, incontinence, anxiety, muscle & joint pain, fatigue & headaches. At 51 I started out taking both estrogen & progesterone; this was an acceptable treatment at that time. I remained on these hormones for 6 yrs but because of an intolerance to progesterone I was put on estrogen only. That is what I mean by unprotected estrogen. Studies now have shown that this puts a woman at higher risk for breast & uterine cancer. The latest studies show that a woman should only be on hrt short term. I have been on low dose estrogen for several years and have regular monitoring for cancer. Last Nov I went off estrogen completely. At that time my tests were all fine.
The estrogen therapy helped very much with my symptoms except for insomnia. My symptoms now are less intense then they once were but pronounced enough that I sought a natural remedy. I researched PM, read most of the studies that have been done and I also researched the company I bought from - "Ainterol". I had some communication with the Dr they have on staff and he said I should not be taking PM with uterine atypia. Of course I did not know that at the time I started with PM. I sought medical attention after 3 mos on PM because the bleeding started after 1 1/2 mos, slowly at first & would stop & start but continued & ended up being very heavy. Bleeding for a women post meno is not a good thing. I received the test results of hyperplasia with atypia 3 wks ago. I do not know which came first, the pre-cancerous condition that was over looked or whether the dose I was taking was too high for my age & caused the problem or if PM affected the test results. One thing is for sure, when I stopped taking PM the bleeding seized and has remained that way. Having a full hysterectomy, which is the treatment being advised (I am seeking another medical opinion) should not be taken lightly.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 15 2009, 4:06 AM
To address whether PM in general would cause cancer, my opinion is no. But, like everything else estrogenic if cancer already exists, or the propensity toward it such as atypia or long duration of HRT, it could make it worse. An example of this is ovarian cysts. Those who already have a problem with ovarian cysts usually find that the estrogenic herbs make it worse. But they are not the cause of ovarian cysts - at least I have not seen any evidence of it - but they definitely exacerbate the problem.
To say that a particular brand of PM could cause cancer - who knows? In my opinion, based on reports of others, St Herb is the safest and has the least amount of side effects. But that is just my observation. I tend to ignore all the rest. Either way, I think that it would be extremely hard to prove that any particular brand made cancer appear out of nowhere and was the cause of it.
Cancer is very serious business. If hyperplasia with atypia are pre-cancerous conditions, how much (estimated) time do you have to try natural things before it turns cancerous? Years? Days? Unknown? What kind of cancer is your condition likely to produce? Something localized like a tumor? Something that generally covers everything and is not localized? How much of the uterus is affected? The entire uterus? An insignificantly small section were it not for being cancerous? Why is an entire hysterectomy being recommended if only the uterus is affected? Or are there other problems that a hysterectomy would address (such as the original problem that the HRT was trying to address) and you might as well just get it while they're in there? Will you need more HRT after the hysterectomy?
These are some of the questions that I would ask before making a decision.
As for natural alternatives to surgery, at this point it sounds like the damage has been done and you need to avoid cancer at all costs. Get doctors you trust and heed their advice. If you have time to try something natural then that is a different story but make sure that they are monitoring you regularly and often. It may be that if you wait a while the hyperplasia and atypia will be taken care of by your own body. There are things you could do to help this along. But make no mistake, cancer is something to be avoided. If your doctors are telling you that it is imminent then you might just have to go that route at that stage.
Starting PM again after the hysterectomy would not be a good first choice. There are other more mild considerations that could be considered first. And on the other hand, it is the same if you end up not needing a hysterectomy. PM would not be a good thing to go back to.
Shanie
(Login menzie)
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 16 2009, 12:10 AM
You make some good points, thank you. There is much to consider. I am making a list of questions to ask & doing my own research as well so I can make a informed decision.
jane
(no login)
Re: Pueraria Mirifica - Need Help
September 19 2009, 6:27 AM
Good luck with your health. Have you noticed no major responsible supplement company in the US makes 500mg Pueraria Mirifica capsules. That's for a reason. They only make 100 mg supplement capsules in Thailand.
Even Dr. Wichai who did the only 3 month capsule study and represents products in Asia does not endorse 500mg capsules/ twice per day.
Does that tell anyone anything? Does anyone still believe its a good idea to use 1000mg/day.
jane