[cupcaketits]

I've been researching the menstrual cycle. Most agree that estrogen is high in the follicular phase, while progesterone is low and progesterone is high during the luteal phase, while estrogen is low. However some charts show a second surge of estrogen during the luteal phase, still lower than progesterone. Some charts do not show this second surge of estrogen and have it continually low during the luteal phase. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I'm trying to decide what herbs and when.

Also, some say that taking phytoestrogens will lower your actual estrogen, which is stronger in effect. Others say phytoestrogens will stimulate breast growth when your own estrogen currently isn't. I'm having a hard time understanding this.

Thanks!

[EllaC]

I've been researching the menstrual cycle. Most agree that estrogen is high in the follicular phase, while progesterone is low and progesterone is high during the luteal phase, while estrogen is low. However some charts show a second surge of estrogen during the luteal phase, still lower than progesterone. Some charts do not show this second surge of estrogen and have it continually low during the luteal phase. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I'm trying to decide what herbs and when.

Also, some say that taking phytoestrogens will lower your actual estrogen, which is stronger in effect. Others say phytoestrogens will stimulate breast growth when your own estrogen currently isn't. I'm having a hard time understanding this.

Thanks!

That's the biggest question of all I reckon.
I notice pm being one of the highest sources of phyto e and yet if it replaces the bad natural e then why do girls always end up with period irregularities when taking it.. The irregularities to me indicate it's having a negative impact on estrogen so I don't really buy into that theory. And of course there's too much fake pm out there or not so much fake but advising females to take too much of the stuff more like it.

Flaxseed on the other hand I read only good things , so i guess it's more about getting the right phytoestrogens and not buying into all the reptitive hype on the Internet. The mix blend companies like breast active etc with all those supposed estrogen herbs never do well . I haven't seen anyone on here hav success with them.

The more programmes I read it seems massage and pumping has the greatest results...

However if you get a hormone test which proves your low in estrogen then that's another story. But I suspect these days most of us have too much.



Sorry to be a downer but I've been there done that with all the phyto herbs and at best they seem to give you a boost initially then it goes away.

[cupcaketits]

I did swell an inch (not just during luteal) on PM & massage. I stopped after my period lasted only three days, not heavy. Unusual for me. I'm very regular, 28 day cycle, ovulate mid cycle, 5 day period. Lost the inch in no time. I was thinking of starting it again but cycling. Do you think it would be worthless?

[EllaC]

I did swell an inch (not just during luteal) on PM & massage. I stopped after my period lasted only three days, not heavy. Unusual for me. I'm very regular, 28 day cycle, ovulate mid cycle, 5 day period. Lost the inch in no time. I was thinking of starting it again but cycling. Do you think it would be worthless?

If it works for you..... You could keep an eye on the period thing BUT I've seen too many girls have side effects using pm so I'm kinda against it. On the up side the inch gained could have been just the massage so keep that up.

I'd scrutinise the pm section here on BN and make a call from there.. The moms here seem to do well though ESP if they successfully breast fed which sadly I could not.

[AbiDrew85]

I've been researching the menstrual cycle. Most agree that estrogen is high in the follicular phase, while progesterone is low and progesterone is high during the luteal phase, while estrogen is low. However some charts show a second surge of estrogen during the luteal phase, still lower than progesterone. Some charts do not show this second surge of estrogen and have it continually low during the luteal phase. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I'm trying to decide what herbs and when.

Also, some say that taking phytoestrogens will lower your actual estrogen, which is stronger in effect. Others say phytoestrogens will stimulate breast growth when your own estrogen currently isn't. I'm having a hard time understanding this.

Thanks!

The second surge is the more accurate. While not AS high in luteal as progesterone, it's not down to bare minimum either.

There is some variance between different women, and even between cycles in the same woman, and as can be seen on the wikimedia version that variance can be so low as to be almost flat, but even then, it isn't truly flat, it's just a less pronounced parabolic.

Phytoestrogens are not all equal. Some are stronger in effect than others. Some compete for receptors more than others. Some herbs that contain them contain more than others. Results are going to vary depending on your own particular differences from other women.