13-02-2016, 01:53 AM
Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007 at 4:03 AM LL (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi everyone,
I have been writing to Dr. Kevin Pezzi, author of 'The Science of Sex' and several other medical books.
http://www.sexualtips.net/
http://www.erbook.net/index.htm
I have purchased several of his books and Iâm very impressed. Please know that Iâm not easily impressed and, in general, I mistrust modern MDs. Many of his books are offered in E-book format. I
highly recommend them!
In 'The Science of Sex' Dr. Pezzi writes that there is a way to increase breast size using temperature. It's an alternative to magnet therapy. He could design a bra that will do this (he has designed several medical devices). The problem is that it will take a considerable amount of money. The developmental costs are high -- including about $1 million for FDA trials. However, he told me that if there is a great response on the BE forum I post on, he'll reconsider the feasibility of it.
The device would likely cost more than Brava (so more than $3000). He believes that phytoestrogens are harmful, which of course goes against what some of us believe, but I personally would feel more comfortable avoiding internals, safe or not, because of the side effects and hassle.
Below is an excerpt from The Science of Sex about this:
âBesides modifying the estrogen level or effect, another way to increase breast size is by timing the application of heat or cold to the breasts so that it coincides with periods in which there is either a net deposition or extraction, respectively, of fat. The success of this technique hinges on the fact that peripheral body temperature is modifiable, not fixed at the nominal 98.6° F core temperature. Temperature, in turn, affects blood supply and enzyme activity, both of which affect local metabolism. Since the net effect is that fat is extracted during exercise and deposited after meals, to increase breast size cold should be applied during exercise and heat should be applied after eating a meal large enough to result in fat deposition. Alternatively, a woman could apply cold during exercise and skip the heat application after eating if she wished only to minimize the breast shrinkage that occurs when a woman loses weight by exercising.â
Doing this myself (using heating pads, etc) is just too tricky. The temperatures must be exact.
So please post if you're interested and we'll see what happens!
Halome
(Login Halome)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 5:23 AM
I'll do a free clinical trial... but I'd rather pay $30 a month for herbs that have resulted in success for others for a few months versus $3000+ for something that might not work at all!
Halome
(Login Halome)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 5:24 AM
-edit-
Though now I'm going to look into ice packs that will fit in my bra when I go running, and put on a heating pad after I eat LOL!
Alexia
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 7:00 AM
Hey,
I'm interested, but it is very expensive, especially since it's not yet tested successfully . How long does he think it will take for the breasts to grow?
linz
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 3:28 PM
Hi - good info.
I take it that you would need a bra that's thermostatically controlled to keep the temp at 98.6 or whatever.
I suppose you will need to put on weight as well which might put people off since it might not work
LInz xx
boob obsession
(no login)
Heating pad
July 26 2007, 4:23 PM
I just wanted to know what kind of heating pads people on this forum have been using on their breasts? Would they be available at a local pharmacy or would they have to be special ordered?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 4:27 PM
Interestng and does sound perfectly possible to work, tho I think as with any NBE method not in 100% of cases, but the price you mention is way to much. I'd be willing to be a test bunny.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 5:53 PM
Btw Lillea, which book is the extract about increasing breast size from? Is there the info how high the temperature has to be to be optimal for the processes? I'd like to improvise on my own lol. :p
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 27 2007, 7:12 AM
Hi Moon,
The book is The Science of Sex. There might be more information on this kind of thing in that book, but maybe not. Dr. Pezzi invites people to write to him with questions.
When I gather enough questions here, I will write to him so I can do a post with answers.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:22 AM
Loreli
(Login Lorelii)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 27 2007, 8:30 AM
I like the sound of it, and would be definitely willing to be a test bunny.
Brava is just way too complicated - maybe in the 1950's when no one went out but in this day and age when people have hectic lives it is impossible for me to wear a massive bulky bra for 10+ hours.
I'd be interested in reading his books too :-)
jellyboobs
(Login jellyboobs)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 27 2007, 9:46 AM
well Id be very happy to be a test bunny for age 50 + eg menopausal love jellyDeee...
Black Sheep
(Login kieyah)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 24 2007, 8:36 PM
any reason we can't just use hot/cold packs in our bras when we eat or exercise?
Seems like it'd work the same way only MUCH cheaper. You know those gel packs that can be heated in microwave for heat or placed in freezer to chill. Maybe use a sports bra so it would fit better. What ya think?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 24 2007, 8:54 PM
It would take a lot of time. It takes several hours before the food you ate even gets into the blood, and then even mor to get to the tissues. You'd have to wear a hot pack for at least 4 hours after a meal, rather 6.
Alcest
(Login Alcest)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 25 2007, 10:58 PM
I'd like to be a test bunny for this as well----- But not if I have to spend $3000+ to be one. That's one reason why I'm not doing BRAVA...it's too expensive (Plus I can't be at home all day, I work 9-5)
Could you tell me if you'd be able to wear this bra out of the house? Like in a normal office environment? Or would it be enormously obvious like BRAVA?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 25 2007, 11:33 PM
Hi Alcest,
I'm going to have to write to him again! I sent him some questions a while ago but haven't heard back yet. He's quite busy. I did find out that it's very very expensive to get FDA approval, so he really would have to have a sense that people are willing to pay. For me, it would be worth it, because it matches with some of my own investigations into NBE, but who knows.
Ideally the bra could be worn in public, I agree!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:23 AM
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 2:25 AM
Yes Id say those flat small gel packs would be great for this.
You can control the temperature of them,by just not heating them as much or not chilling them til frozen.
Alexia
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 7:44 AM
Why would he need FDA approval for a bra??
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 7:55 AM
He needs approval because it wouldn't be a bra with gel packs, it would be an electronic bra that regulates breast temperature. It would be more complex than Brava, he told me. To sell such a device legally - what is essentially a medical device - he needs FDA approval. Brava was approved, for example, in the US but not in Canada. It's an expensive process.
Hope this helps!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:23 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 10:35 PM
Brava's not FDA approved as the FDA said it seemed safe and isn't a medical device so they have allowed it on the market as an unregulated device. This would probably be similar as it's non-invasive.
Surely he'd be better with a bra and knicker set so when you eat the bra heats up and the knickers cool down so you put fat on the top not the bottom! (Can't imagine how he's actually going to manufacture this!)
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 10:41 PM
Thank you for the clarification, Louise.
I made a mistake. For the investigation into the device by the FDA, it costs money. So even if it ends up like Brava (they allow it to be on the market) it's a lot of money to go through that process.
I wrote to him again with a few questions. He didn't get my previous e-mails, it turns out. He said he'll get back to me later today, so I'll post ASAP.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 11:01 PM
F*ck FDA approval! Can't he make this without it?
...Althoguh there's sth I would mention - devices for body which use electricity can be very dangerous. I'm sure you've heard of the massage belts (which are also advertised to help weight loss), and arround here this so called 'sauna belt' was advertised also for weight loss. Ther was a case of a girl using that sauna belt which was poorly made so that she came in contact with the electricity inside it and it gave her a heart arrest. If she didn't receive CPR immediately she would of course die.
Hmm, I wish this ba could be made cheaper tho...
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Aug 26, 2007 11:02 PM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 11:08 PM
Yeah, I wish he could make it w/o going through that process, but there is so much legal #@! that can happen if he doesn't, I guess.
Based on his books and the other things he's written (that I've read), he seems like a cautious person. If he created something, it would be more likely to be safe. I'd be willing to give it a run!
Among other things, he's been an ER doc.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:24 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 9:31 AM
Tell him to market it in Europe - we're less fussy with approval!
(We just ban everything!)
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Dr. Kevin Pezzi answers
August 27 2007, 7:00 PM
I asked Dr. Pezzi some questions. Below are his replies.
Because I have read his work and can see how well he understands the human body, I would be willing to give this a try. If you have doubts about him so these answers seem too vague, I recommend reading his books first. Again, I am a very skeptical person but after reading his work and seeing what he has invented so far, I would be willing to trust him to make something that actually works.
1. How long would the device have to be worn (how many hours a day,
how many months)?
There is no minimum (unlike the Brava), but the more it is worn, the better the results will be.
2. How long would it take to see results?
3. Up to how many cup sizes could one expect? (note: most of the women
would be content with 1-2 cup sizes).
The results (and the speed with which they are achieved) will depend on several factors, including a woman's hormonal status, diet, phytoestrogen/xenoestrogen/metalloestrogen intake, genetics, age, and usage hours.
4. Would the wearer have to overeat for best results?
Breasts will always be larger when women gain weight, but gaining weight is NOT a prerequisite for the device to work.
5. Would the wearer be actively engaged in alternating the heat and
cold or will this be totally automatic with sensors?
Initially, the user will control whether heat or cold is applied. I could offer a semi-automatic mode that senses some of the criteria about when to switch from warm to cold or vice-versa, but the technology does not yet exist that would permit it to control all switching points on its own. However, switching is very easy: just press a button.
6. Would the 'bra' be concealable under clothing?
Yes.
7. By extention could this approach also be used for menopausal women
to combat the dramatic changes in temperature that occur?
Yes.
Kevin
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:24 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 7:09 PM
Sounds great Lilea. Personally I don't think switching would be such a problem. If the button was on the front you could easily do it in public in a descrete manner, as if your scratched yourself or sth.
So did you talk with him anything about the FDA approval, is it absolutely necessary?
And would some tests be performed in which he'd need volunteers?
Black Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 7:23 PM
What I don't get about the whole temperature increasing circulation thing is.....
* those stretch pants (like liposuction pants) are suppose to increase circulation and result in fat loss.
* Also, yoga people say weight loss occurs when the muscles are stretched. Deep stretching a muscle drains the muscle of blood and when relaxed it fills back up with blood and the circulation to the muscle is improved overall. (Bad biological explanation - but that's the gist)
* Plus, why don't ankles get abnormally thin on people with bad leg circulation.
I want to try this bra too - but I think hormones are going influence fat a lot more. I'm banking that it's success will depend more on enzyme activity than circulation.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 7:55 PM
Hi Moon,
I just sent him those questions, so hopefully he'll reply soon.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 8:37 PM
Hi Lillea,
Just wondered about buying the ebook - is it only theoretical stuff like boob heating or can you actually do most of the other stuff at home?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 8:41 PM
Hi Louise,
The breast part of the book is only a small part of the work. He goes over things you can do at home to improve hormone levels and sexual health. Loads of very do-it-yourself stuff!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
lindyrose
(Login lindyrose)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 28 2007, 7:35 PM
Interesting, but way to expensive for me. If that would work on the breasts then would the opposite be true for your thighs... like apply heat when you exercise and cold after you eat?? Maybe he could make some shorts too
I haven't checked out his book yet but I might take a looksee. Thanks!
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 28 2007, 7:52 PM
That's just what I thought! Increase the top and decrease the bottom! Technically surely this would be easier to achieve than the bra alone as whatevers causing the cooling in one area would need to discharge the heat and could discharge it in the other area?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 28 2007, 8:03 PM
Yes, the same principle would apply if you want to spot reduce. In his weight loss book, he describes why. He says in the book that he will pay 1 million dollars to any doctor who can prove him wrong about this. Also, any doctor willing to enter into the competition must agree to pay Dr. Pezzi 1 million dollars when he can't prove Dr. Pezzi wrong. Fair enough!
http://www.lose-weight-easily.net/
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
FDA approval not needed!
August 29 2007, 2:17 AM
Dr. Pezzi just wrote to me to say that it actually doesn't require FDA approval, it turns out, because it isn't a medical device. So now it's more feasible. But his book sales have been low, so he might devote his time to that, even though he hates promoting his books.
Yes, he would need test subjects, too, but how that would work, I have no idea. We first have to convince him to give this a shot.
My research into BE has led me to wanting to try this approach, not something like Brava, so I really really want to try to convince him to do this.
I highly recommend his books. They are very well priced considering how much information they contain. I'm quite wowed by The Science of Sex, and I truly don't wow easily.
http://www.sexualtips.net/science_of_sex.htm
He has a weight loss book, too:
http://www.lose-weight-easily.net/
To write to him about the bra (or anything else), go here:
http://www.sexualtips.net/ask_dr__pezzi.htm
If enough people 'bug' him, maybe he can create somehting at a more reasonable cost!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:04 AM
Well I'm all for it. But hasn't he considered that a breast increasing device, especially if it worked for a portion of users at least, might be a better profit than books?
Look at Brava, it's very expensive and it doesn't work for everyone, but it's quite a good business.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:13 AM
I would be concerned about the spot reduction claim as surely it's easier for him to find one person where it's worked (even if most bodies don't do it) that for someone else to prove a universal negative.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:15 AM
I agree with you, Moon! This could make some big bucks for him. He does realise that, so now w/o the FDA approval requirement, I'm hoping he'll decide to do this. I don't mind spending money on it, as much or more than for Brava. I feel strongly like it could work.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:19 AM
Hi Louise,
He asks for the challenger to set up a properly controlled experiment, so that means many test subjects, etc.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:22 AM
I hope he does Lilea! I wouldn't be able to speand that much money as Brava costs, but if the cost could be made more accesible without the FDA approval, I would try it too.
I'm also thinking that reduction might b harder than increase...
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Aug 29, 2007 10:22 AM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Dr. Pezzi will proceed if...
August 30 2007, 2:13 AM
This is his reply to me about what would make him go ahead with this, to make it worth his time:
I could proceed if you can find 20 or more women willing to put $1000 down as a non-refundable deposit, and an additional $3000 due upon delivery of a functioning unit. I'm taking quite a risk by promising to sell each unit for $4000 because the 3-D molding process is very complex, and I can't make a "one size fits all" bra. I don't know if you watched the American Inventor series this year or last, but if you did, you know that invention prototyping companies could "blow through" $50K just to begin prototyping an invention this complex, and then they'd deliver one mockup with partial functionality (or perhaps just a non-functioning "dummy"), not 20 functioning units.
Incidentally, now that I have been reconsidering this idea, I thought of an addition that could potentially increase growth beyond the thermal effects.
Kevin
Naturally a contract would be drawn up so we knew we'd be getting something for sure!
Boy, well, I'm actually willing to pay more money for this and if anyone else is then maybe it could be done w/o needing 20 women.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
Alexia
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 6:39 AM
Sorry Lillea, but 4000 dollars!?! The guy is crazy!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 6:44 AM
Hi Alexia,
Brava costs close to that, and he is saying that the technology to really make this work isn't simple. It is a lot of money, but not compared to surgery.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 9:43 AM
I'm happy to pay that if it works! It seems a bit steep for a trial, usually whe you do a clinical trial they pay you. I'd also be nervous about giving him money before he starts, at the end of the day if it works it'll make him a very rich man (like someone else said even if it only gives a small improvement on some body types women will be willing to try). I think he should be the one to take the finanacial risk as he will get the profit. If I'm paying I'll expect shares!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 10:00 AM
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 11:17 AM
Yeah I agree, if I'd be investing in this, I'd want shares. Anything difefrent would be, bluntly put, a fruad. But I don't have that much money anyway.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 4:09 AM
Hi everyone,
I have decided to pay Dr. Pezzi a larger amount of money to develop one for me. He is an inventor, so that's what I approached him as. Below is his recent e-mail to me to address some of the concerns of people here, and my concerns:
About being part of a clinical trial, therefore being paid to try the bra:
This is a sale, NOT a clinical trial. Clinical trials are very iffy, and
sometimes even kill people. This is MUCH safer and far less iffy. Anyone who
doubts that doesn't need to take my word for it: just read books about
biochemistry and physiology, and they could verify for themselves that
enzymes are very temperature sensitive.
About shares in this:
Once you talk about shares, you talk about government intervention and the
zillion and one demands they make that go along with the issuance of stock
certificates. I am not willing to open that can of worms for $4000. Anyone
who truly wants to invest in this idea will have to pay much more than $4K for a piece of
the pie. BTW, if the device works as well as I think it will, I will sell it
for more than $4000. Women currently can pay more than that for breast
augmentation that gives them obviously "fake" breasts along with scars and
the risks inherent to surgery. There's nothing like real breast tissue.
I have a question for people who want shares in return for $4K: Did Henry
Ford give shares of Ford Motor Company to his first customers? Did Bill
Gates give Microsoft shares to his first customers? Microsoft's software is
so pathetic even after decades of "improvements" that I am now transitioning
to using open source software, not because it is cheaper, but because it is
usually better.
> 1. Is it likely that I could achieve an increase of at least 1 cup
> size (permanent, unless I lost weight) in 1-3 months? Is 2 cup sizes
> achievable?
The gains will depend on the factors I previously mentioned, and will
increase over time. I don't know what the maximum gain will be, but I am
certain that it will vary from woman to woman.
> 1. would this truly be concealable under clothing?
The bra pads will likely be somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick.
> 2. I have a latex sensitivity. Will anything touching my skin be made of
> latex?
No latex. Latex is a cheap rubber that is not suitable for casting.
> 4. will I have a series of 'domes' to wear, like Brava?
No, they will be inserts worn under a standard bra.
> 5. will I have to wear the unit occasionally after I am happy with
> results to maintain the size?
Probably. It is possible that won't be necessary, but I wouldn't count on
it. The body possesses a general tendency to regress after ANY gain, whether
that is in memory, strength, muscle size or tone, etc.
Incidentally, what those women on the forum are thinking is probably
something along the lines of believing that I'll make close to $4000 of
profit from each unit. I wish! What they don't know is the enormous expense
of developing new inventions.
In general, I think the problem is that the women on the forum don't know me
or my capabilities. I know that I, too, would want my questions answered
before I shelled out thousands of dollars for anything but, in retrospect, I
think it was a mistake for me to think that I could satisfactorily address
their concerns via this indirect way.
I have countless inventions to work on, so I must prioritize them. As you
know, it took some repeated arm twisting on your part to get me to consider
working on this idea. I was impressed by your determination and
intelligence, but I have to tell you that finding 19 or more others like you
on a forum is highly improbable. Therefore, I will continue to answer your
questions if you want a HTB for yourself, but I will withdraw my offer to
make the other 19 units and sell them for $4K. I know that it would take
months or years to recruit enough people, and I simply don't have the time
to invest in the required dialogue.
Kevin
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 5:05 AM
My .02 cents.
There are a few things that give me pause about this 'invention'.
First, enzyme activity is not exactly timed to meals or even to exercise. Metabolism is increased for several hours after exercise and therefore enhanced enzyme activity would also be extended. Meals take two hours to leave the stomach and enter the small intestine where digestion is completed and absorption is conducted. The total digestion process is dependent on many factors including what type of food is eaten (fats take longer to digest than carbohydrates eaten alone). Also, digestion is subject to interfering factors such as stress and exercise -blood supplies are diverted away from the stomach during such times. With these things in mind, an 'exact' science of enzyme activity would be suspect and subject to inaccuracies. There is nothing more complex and variable than the human body.
Second, enhancing heat would be much simpler than providing cold. If a person merely increased heat to the breasts during times they were not exercising then there should be some breast enhancement - even if it is not as much as if a woman also applied cold during exercise. I don't see why the temperatures must be 'exact'. There certainly would be an optimum range that should be the target, but there should be a flexible range. After all, our body temperatures vary by a degree or more, person to person. The heating device would be unlikely to be able to adjust itself based on the wearers own temperature. A ballpark range would likely produce some results - again maybe not as much result as a 'perfect' range, but results none the less.
Third, asking for 20 strangers to cough up $4000 (but now it seems that amount is not enough to tempt Kevin to build the device...) on an unproven device that has never been tested to provide heat or cold, much less provide results is an unlikely proposition. I am glad Kevin came to that conclusion on his own. If he is above board then he should realize the risk to both his business investment as well as the purchasers financial risk on an unproven device is much too great.
What Kevin could do is encourage those who feel this idea is valid to experiment. They could easily create their own 'invention' by improvising a way to apply about 99 - 100 degree temperatures to the breast for a period of two to four hours while at rest. A great time to do it would be after the evening meal while relaxing in front of the TV. An electric heating pad would probably be too hot, but warm/hot moist towel could be used and reheated during this 'session'. (Sure it sounds like a hassle, but what is there about NBE that is not a hassle) If they gained some after a few weeks, then they would know this kind of therapy would be valid. Kevin could then market to those interested women who wanted and easier way to get the results they had already learned they could achieve.
This way he wouldn't have to 'invest dialog' but could still attract investors to his product. However, he has clearly stated that he is too busy for this...
as I said, just my .02 cents, no disrespect to the doctor intended.
waxingmoon
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 5:16 AM
Thanks, Waxingmoon. I sent him your comments to see what he thinks! It must seem odd to people that I'm willing to go ahead with this for more than $4000, but oh well.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 10:25 AM
To be honest it depends how much spare cash you have! I'm trying to buy a 3 bed house in London on my own aiming to put in a big enough deposit to get it paid off in under 10 years so I have big financial commitments. I would be willing to pay more than that if I knew it would work, e.g. I have considered the 12k for celution but would like to get the maximum from nbe first. I would say I am more put off by his attitude than by the money. Of course we don't trust a total stranger, 20 people at 4k each is 80k!! He could just knock up something cheap at home and blame our adherence to instructions when it doesn't work! You bet he'll have a sharp contract so there is no comeback...how about a contract where we get a full refund if there is no affect in 3 months? I understand he will have to meet manufacturing costs but I cannot believe each unit is going to cost $4k (obviously that's £2k gbp but it's only a heat pad! - you can buy a small heat pad that mountaineers use to warm their hands for about £8).
In what way is this not a trial? Until he proves his apparatus works there is a risk to the consumer. I would prefer us all to go to US and have a physical and wear the thing in a hospital or whatever for 3 months for a proper trial - will he not trial it at all? What if it causes burning? What if after several months of use some part of the device breaks down making exposed components dangerous? I know this is unlikely but surely he needs to test it. Are you not concerned that as soon as you mentioned a clinical trial he has backed off and raised the price seemingly to put you off? Also if he can make one for you and only you for say 20k then he didn't need the 80k he originally asked for! All medications and above-board medical devices will have been trialled, he can't say it's 'iffy' it just may make him look stupid if he has no-one to blame when it doesn't work.
(Waxingmoon, I agree that it is not as simple as heat boobs for 1 hour after dinner as doesn't a steak take 12 hours to move through your intestine? If you have breakfast then walk to work are you supposed to be heating or cooling? I also agree that its a good idea to try a heat pad after dinner, perhaps you could eat a quickly absorbed meal to help and maybe sit in a bath of icewater at the same time to reduce the backside into the bargain - sounds like fun!)
Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 11:07 AM
Hi Louise,
Well, I haven't signed anything yet. I still need to find out more, how he'll be testing this, etc.
Lost Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 7:02 PM
lillea how much is he charging you for one unit?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 8:38 PM
Hi Lost Sheep,
The cost hasn't been determined yet, but it will be far higher than $4000. I'll be consulting with him this weekend most likely.
I would really love it if people here would at least read The Science of Sex to do a full evaluation of his ideas, etc. It doesn't cost much, and it's an e-book. He has tips about what to do to improve libido, hormone levels, etc. It's a very densely filled book. There is bound to be something in it that will be of interest to people here aside from the breast stuff.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
Lost Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 8:45 PM
lillea, thanks. i will give his sex book a try. please write when you find out a price. i would be interested if i had the money. would be awesome if it works for you! how many cups are you aiming for?
amiee
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 1 2007, 1:37 AM
Hi Aimee,
I hope you enjoy his book! It contains so much information!
I'd love 2-3 cup sizes, ideally. How about you?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Alcest
(Login Alcest)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 1 2007, 4:28 AM
A man writing a book about sex? You don't say! =P
Of course I'll give it a read. I'm still very interested in this Lillea---Though I agree with the others about the cost. Especially because I just graduated college in May and don't have that kind of $$ right now...
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 1 2007, 4:49 AM
Hi Alcest
Great. He has many theories and of course I cannot say if all are them are right (he is quite candid, too, as you'll see when you read his work) but I felt overall that he knows more than most doctors and researchers. I have a friend who found information in his book that she couldn't find elsewhere despite researching for months. I recommend this book no matter what people may personally think about his style or views in some areas.
I have his book about how to enlarge penises, too. He did it himself. It involved a medication and other things, but he really did it.
And to answer a much earlier reply, heat affects how enzymes work. It isn't about circulation only.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Alcest
(Login Alcest)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 12:21 AM
Ugh, Lillea, I started reading the Science of Sex book and Oh my god this guy is an *******. "if you help get me people to buy my book i'll tell you how to survive if you have cancer"???? WTF! They way he speaks in his writing is so incredibly arrogant and in my opinion he's a total douchebag. However, i will continue reading because I am interested in what he's going to say----Though I already knew what I've read so far.
He's just some guy obsessed with sex who's found a way to make it, and other things he's interested in, a career for himself.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 1:00 AM
Hi Alcest,
I understand your criticisms. I just looked at the cancer book info and I agree that does not come across well.
As I was saying before, despite how he comes across, some of the information he offers in his books can't be found elsewhere, yet seems to be quite accurate based on what two of my friends have experienced. Friends who have searched for the information for a long time. One is how the acne drug Accutane can affect negatively affect sexual health, sometimes permanently. That's actually what led me to buy the book in the first place because I've worried about my friend so much. My friend has searched for years to find out what to do about it, only finding one study that mentioned it, nothing else. There are suggestions in Science of Sex about what to do about it.
I spoke on the phone with him recently and he wasn't arrogant at all. He was very nice and helpful. But I'm not endorsing anything except for the book(s) and the concept behind this bra, which continues to intrigue me.
In case anyone is wondering, I didn't get the cancer book just for posting about his books here. lol
I don't have the money to go ahead with the device just for myself, it turns out, so that's that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Alcest, and everyone.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Alcest
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 1:24 AM
Lillea I have a question:
Pezzi is saying that phytoestrogens actually REDUCE breast size. However, many of the herbs we take have phytoestrogens in them and women have had results. And look at WU------ I'm so utterly confused. I don't know what to do.
Also---- Are you thinking about going on an estrogen patch as well? I'm afraid to though, it seems much riskier than taking herbs...
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 8:30 AM
Hi Alcest
I'm beginning to think that it's the galactogogues (so, they increase prolactin, which massage also does) that are helpful for NBE combined with the estrogen our body is already making. The thread below talks about this in depth
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...in+breasts
and really makes sense to me. Fennel and Fenugreek are strong galactogogues. That thread goes into detail about the programs/things that seem to be more successful - what they have in common. WU has a high number of galactogues in it, more than other BE products. And it doesn't contain SP, which is interesting. Most do.
I compiled a massive e-mail to Pezzi about these theories and programs like Grow Yours. I wonder if he'll end up changing some of the things he has in his book once he learns more. He updates from time to time.
But I do question the use of strong phytoestrogens like pure PM (interestingly, St. Herb PM actually contains some progesterone, I found out, so it isn't just estrogenic, so that might be why it's more sucessful). For women who are low in estrogen, then they might benefit a bit at first, but I really am concerned about screwing with receptors like that.
But it's so individual depending on a woman's hormonal profile. That thread is great, explaining a lot of this.
I wouldn't go on the patch, no. I think it's ultra risky, too. I still need to have my hormones properly checked to know what's going on.
Anyway, I'm glad that we can talk about these things!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 10:39 AM
I think phytoestrogens and estrogenic herbs are still important tho, as are galactogogues. I think the 'magic' combination could be both estrogenic and galactogogic action at the same time. This particulary seems supported if you simply look into the nature - many herbs that affect hormonal system are both of that - FG, fennel, hops, borage, and many more. There must be a reason for that, nature is smart. The ratio of estrogenic to galactogogic action could also important. WU contains only one ingredient which is only estrogenic and not a galactogogue - soy.
The fact is that phytoestrogens diminish the action of our own estrogen. That's why it seems so unexplicable how we achieve gorwth. But we do, practice shows it. We don't know how big the action of phytoestrogens is on the body, maybe it's very small. Maybe it affects metabolism of horomes is some way which is unknown to science yet, that causes breast growth. That's my oppinion. I think it's kindof presumptious and naieve to think that you can explain evrything with theory. There i still plenty about the human body which we don't know yet.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 10:52 AM
Hi Moon,
Yes, the more I learn, the less I know. lol
It would be great if people in the medical community, etc. seriously looked into this. Serious lab work, etc. Some of the plastic surgeons would just hate it if we figured it out fully, of course.
I'm thankful for the people on the BE forums who are willing to experiment and question things.
I'm going back to trying hypnosis!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:29 AM
Lost Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 6:00 PM
Phytoestrogens do reduce breast size in some people. It happened to me, to put it mildly. (They did far more to my breasts than just reduce them.) I think Pezzi is saying is that it's more likely to happen in women that already have very high estrogen before taking the herbs, which I did. He wrote a good article on competitive inhibition, should anyone want to browse his site.
I had very large breasts and didn't take herbs for enlargement. My ND, a total crook, gave them to me for a minor issue, saying they'd help. Turns out I never needed them in the first place, but that's another story. Anyway, even knowing their supposed enhancement abilities, I didn't think they'd affect my breasts at all. I was wrong. They've destroyed my body, my health, and a LOT of my breast tissue, and I had tons to begin with. Once they changed my hormones, I went through a series of chain reactions. I've had multiple side effects and consider them poison, but I'm not going to list all of the problems I've had here, given how my experience was received in the past. Messing with hormones can be extremely dangerous, as can herbs. They're not remotely safe simply because they're natural, and many of the companies that promote them lie. I could fill pages with the misinformation on Greenbush's site alone, being that's the company I used. It's still funny to me that they're called breast ENHANCEMENT herbs, seeing as I was 100% happy with my breasts before them and completely destroyed after.
If I had one chance to do something over, I never would have touched them. Worst mistake of my life. Will other people lose breast tissue, have horrible side effects, react the same way? I don't know. If they have incredibly high estrogen, I would think so and SERIOUSLY warn them to watch out, but that's all I can do. From what I've read here, my body was completely different than other women on the board, since a lot of people seem to be dealing with low estrogen and excess androgens. I wasn't. That may account for the different reactions. Still, I know Pezzi's take is right, all too unfortunately for me.
Kate
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 7:09 PM
I think a lot of us may have too much testosterone and eostrogen compared to progesterone. The phytoestrogens technically should block receptors for E and T so giving a higher ratio of P in the system. If it was just a matter of more hormones BO would always work so we know it must be more complicated. Also the phytoestrogens must do something if they are capable of stalling.
What we need is someone with a lot of time on their hands to plough through all the personal programs, see who has had less than 1 inch (no significant result), 1-2 inch (standard result) 2+ inches (great result), and what these groups had in common. Also I'd be intrested to know why some people grow to start, change nothing, stop growing and never restart - did they just reach their genetic potential. Why do some people not grow boobs during puberty then get a D in their twenties with some chicken feet and massage? There's science in there somewhere and not knowing the answer's beginning to annoy me! Research time!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 9:03 PM
Thank you for posting, Kate. It's so awful what happened to you. I agree that Pezzi seems to understand just how bad things can get for some people. People need to be very careful.
I agree with you, Louise! I would love if it someone took that on!
July 26 2007 at 4:03 AM LL (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hi everyone,
I have been writing to Dr. Kevin Pezzi, author of 'The Science of Sex' and several other medical books.
http://www.sexualtips.net/
http://www.erbook.net/index.htm
I have purchased several of his books and Iâm very impressed. Please know that Iâm not easily impressed and, in general, I mistrust modern MDs. Many of his books are offered in E-book format. I
highly recommend them!
In 'The Science of Sex' Dr. Pezzi writes that there is a way to increase breast size using temperature. It's an alternative to magnet therapy. He could design a bra that will do this (he has designed several medical devices). The problem is that it will take a considerable amount of money. The developmental costs are high -- including about $1 million for FDA trials. However, he told me that if there is a great response on the BE forum I post on, he'll reconsider the feasibility of it.
The device would likely cost more than Brava (so more than $3000). He believes that phytoestrogens are harmful, which of course goes against what some of us believe, but I personally would feel more comfortable avoiding internals, safe or not, because of the side effects and hassle.
Below is an excerpt from The Science of Sex about this:
âBesides modifying the estrogen level or effect, another way to increase breast size is by timing the application of heat or cold to the breasts so that it coincides with periods in which there is either a net deposition or extraction, respectively, of fat. The success of this technique hinges on the fact that peripheral body temperature is modifiable, not fixed at the nominal 98.6° F core temperature. Temperature, in turn, affects blood supply and enzyme activity, both of which affect local metabolism. Since the net effect is that fat is extracted during exercise and deposited after meals, to increase breast size cold should be applied during exercise and heat should be applied after eating a meal large enough to result in fat deposition. Alternatively, a woman could apply cold during exercise and skip the heat application after eating if she wished only to minimize the breast shrinkage that occurs when a woman loses weight by exercising.â
Doing this myself (using heating pads, etc) is just too tricky. The temperatures must be exact.
So please post if you're interested and we'll see what happens!
Halome
(Login Halome)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 5:23 AM
I'll do a free clinical trial... but I'd rather pay $30 a month for herbs that have resulted in success for others for a few months versus $3000+ for something that might not work at all!
Halome
(Login Halome)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 5:24 AM
-edit-
Though now I'm going to look into ice packs that will fit in my bra when I go running, and put on a heating pad after I eat LOL!
Alexia
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 7:00 AM
Hey,
I'm interested, but it is very expensive, especially since it's not yet tested successfully . How long does he think it will take for the breasts to grow?
linz
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 3:28 PM
Hi - good info.
I take it that you would need a bra that's thermostatically controlled to keep the temp at 98.6 or whatever.
I suppose you will need to put on weight as well which might put people off since it might not work
LInz xx
boob obsession
(no login)
Heating pad
July 26 2007, 4:23 PM
I just wanted to know what kind of heating pads people on this forum have been using on their breasts? Would they be available at a local pharmacy or would they have to be special ordered?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 4:27 PM
Interestng and does sound perfectly possible to work, tho I think as with any NBE method not in 100% of cases, but the price you mention is way to much. I'd be willing to be a test bunny.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 26 2007, 5:53 PM
Btw Lillea, which book is the extract about increasing breast size from? Is there the info how high the temperature has to be to be optimal for the processes? I'd like to improvise on my own lol. :p
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 27 2007, 7:12 AM
Hi Moon,
The book is The Science of Sex. There might be more information on this kind of thing in that book, but maybe not. Dr. Pezzi invites people to write to him with questions.
When I gather enough questions here, I will write to him so I can do a post with answers.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:22 AM
Loreli
(Login Lorelii)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 27 2007, 8:30 AM
I like the sound of it, and would be definitely willing to be a test bunny.
Brava is just way too complicated - maybe in the 1950's when no one went out but in this day and age when people have hectic lives it is impossible for me to wear a massive bulky bra for 10+ hours.
I'd be interested in reading his books too :-)
jellyboobs
(Login jellyboobs)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
July 27 2007, 9:46 AM
well Id be very happy to be a test bunny for age 50 + eg menopausal love jellyDeee...
Black Sheep
(Login kieyah)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 24 2007, 8:36 PM
any reason we can't just use hot/cold packs in our bras when we eat or exercise?
Seems like it'd work the same way only MUCH cheaper. You know those gel packs that can be heated in microwave for heat or placed in freezer to chill. Maybe use a sports bra so it would fit better. What ya think?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 24 2007, 8:54 PM
It would take a lot of time. It takes several hours before the food you ate even gets into the blood, and then even mor to get to the tissues. You'd have to wear a hot pack for at least 4 hours after a meal, rather 6.
Alcest
(Login Alcest)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 25 2007, 10:58 PM
I'd like to be a test bunny for this as well----- But not if I have to spend $3000+ to be one. That's one reason why I'm not doing BRAVA...it's too expensive (Plus I can't be at home all day, I work 9-5)
Could you tell me if you'd be able to wear this bra out of the house? Like in a normal office environment? Or would it be enormously obvious like BRAVA?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 25 2007, 11:33 PM
Hi Alcest,
I'm going to have to write to him again! I sent him some questions a while ago but haven't heard back yet. He's quite busy. I did find out that it's very very expensive to get FDA approval, so he really would have to have a sense that people are willing to pay. For me, it would be worth it, because it matches with some of my own investigations into NBE, but who knows.
Ideally the bra could be worn in public, I agree!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:23 AM
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 2:25 AM
Yes Id say those flat small gel packs would be great for this.
You can control the temperature of them,by just not heating them as much or not chilling them til frozen.
Alexia
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 7:44 AM
Why would he need FDA approval for a bra??
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 7:55 AM
He needs approval because it wouldn't be a bra with gel packs, it would be an electronic bra that regulates breast temperature. It would be more complex than Brava, he told me. To sell such a device legally - what is essentially a medical device - he needs FDA approval. Brava was approved, for example, in the US but not in Canada. It's an expensive process.
Hope this helps!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:23 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 10:35 PM
Brava's not FDA approved as the FDA said it seemed safe and isn't a medical device so they have allowed it on the market as an unregulated device. This would probably be similar as it's non-invasive.
Surely he'd be better with a bra and knicker set so when you eat the bra heats up and the knickers cool down so you put fat on the top not the bottom! (Can't imagine how he's actually going to manufacture this!)
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 10:41 PM
Thank you for the clarification, Louise.
I made a mistake. For the investigation into the device by the FDA, it costs money. So even if it ends up like Brava (they allow it to be on the market) it's a lot of money to go through that process.
I wrote to him again with a few questions. He didn't get my previous e-mails, it turns out. He said he'll get back to me later today, so I'll post ASAP.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 11:01 PM
F*ck FDA approval! Can't he make this without it?
...Althoguh there's sth I would mention - devices for body which use electricity can be very dangerous. I'm sure you've heard of the massage belts (which are also advertised to help weight loss), and arround here this so called 'sauna belt' was advertised also for weight loss. Ther was a case of a girl using that sauna belt which was poorly made so that she came in contact with the electricity inside it and it gave her a heart arrest. If she didn't receive CPR immediately she would of course die.
Hmm, I wish this ba could be made cheaper tho...
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Aug 26, 2007 11:02 PM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 26 2007, 11:08 PM
Yeah, I wish he could make it w/o going through that process, but there is so much legal #@! that can happen if he doesn't, I guess.
Based on his books and the other things he's written (that I've read), he seems like a cautious person. If he created something, it would be more likely to be safe. I'd be willing to give it a run!
Among other things, he's been an ER doc.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:24 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 9:31 AM
Tell him to market it in Europe - we're less fussy with approval!
(We just ban everything!)
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Dr. Kevin Pezzi answers
August 27 2007, 7:00 PM
I asked Dr. Pezzi some questions. Below are his replies.
Because I have read his work and can see how well he understands the human body, I would be willing to give this a try. If you have doubts about him so these answers seem too vague, I recommend reading his books first. Again, I am a very skeptical person but after reading his work and seeing what he has invented so far, I would be willing to trust him to make something that actually works.
1. How long would the device have to be worn (how many hours a day,
how many months)?
There is no minimum (unlike the Brava), but the more it is worn, the better the results will be.
2. How long would it take to see results?
3. Up to how many cup sizes could one expect? (note: most of the women
would be content with 1-2 cup sizes).
The results (and the speed with which they are achieved) will depend on several factors, including a woman's hormonal status, diet, phytoestrogen/xenoestrogen/metalloestrogen intake, genetics, age, and usage hours.
4. Would the wearer have to overeat for best results?
Breasts will always be larger when women gain weight, but gaining weight is NOT a prerequisite for the device to work.
5. Would the wearer be actively engaged in alternating the heat and
cold or will this be totally automatic with sensors?
Initially, the user will control whether heat or cold is applied. I could offer a semi-automatic mode that senses some of the criteria about when to switch from warm to cold or vice-versa, but the technology does not yet exist that would permit it to control all switching points on its own. However, switching is very easy: just press a button.
6. Would the 'bra' be concealable under clothing?
Yes.
7. By extention could this approach also be used for menopausal women
to combat the dramatic changes in temperature that occur?
Yes.
Kevin
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:24 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 7:09 PM
Sounds great Lilea. Personally I don't think switching would be such a problem. If the button was on the front you could easily do it in public in a descrete manner, as if your scratched yourself or sth.
So did you talk with him anything about the FDA approval, is it absolutely necessary?
And would some tests be performed in which he'd need volunteers?
Black Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 7:23 PM
What I don't get about the whole temperature increasing circulation thing is.....
* those stretch pants (like liposuction pants) are suppose to increase circulation and result in fat loss.
* Also, yoga people say weight loss occurs when the muscles are stretched. Deep stretching a muscle drains the muscle of blood and when relaxed it fills back up with blood and the circulation to the muscle is improved overall. (Bad biological explanation - but that's the gist)
* Plus, why don't ankles get abnormally thin on people with bad leg circulation.
I want to try this bra too - but I think hormones are going influence fat a lot more. I'm banking that it's success will depend more on enzyme activity than circulation.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 7:55 PM
Hi Moon,
I just sent him those questions, so hopefully he'll reply soon.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 8:37 PM
Hi Lillea,
Just wondered about buying the ebook - is it only theoretical stuff like boob heating or can you actually do most of the other stuff at home?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 27 2007, 8:41 PM
Hi Louise,
The breast part of the book is only a small part of the work. He goes over things you can do at home to improve hormone levels and sexual health. Loads of very do-it-yourself stuff!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
lindyrose
(Login lindyrose)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 28 2007, 7:35 PM
Interesting, but way to expensive for me. If that would work on the breasts then would the opposite be true for your thighs... like apply heat when you exercise and cold after you eat?? Maybe he could make some shorts too
I haven't checked out his book yet but I might take a looksee. Thanks!
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 28 2007, 7:52 PM
That's just what I thought! Increase the top and decrease the bottom! Technically surely this would be easier to achieve than the bra alone as whatevers causing the cooling in one area would need to discharge the heat and could discharge it in the other area?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 28 2007, 8:03 PM
Yes, the same principle would apply if you want to spot reduce. In his weight loss book, he describes why. He says in the book that he will pay 1 million dollars to any doctor who can prove him wrong about this. Also, any doctor willing to enter into the competition must agree to pay Dr. Pezzi 1 million dollars when he can't prove Dr. Pezzi wrong. Fair enough!
http://www.lose-weight-easily.net/
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
FDA approval not needed!
August 29 2007, 2:17 AM
Dr. Pezzi just wrote to me to say that it actually doesn't require FDA approval, it turns out, because it isn't a medical device. So now it's more feasible. But his book sales have been low, so he might devote his time to that, even though he hates promoting his books.
Yes, he would need test subjects, too, but how that would work, I have no idea. We first have to convince him to give this a shot.
My research into BE has led me to wanting to try this approach, not something like Brava, so I really really want to try to convince him to do this.
I highly recommend his books. They are very well priced considering how much information they contain. I'm quite wowed by The Science of Sex, and I truly don't wow easily.
http://www.sexualtips.net/science_of_sex.htm
He has a weight loss book, too:
http://www.lose-weight-easily.net/
To write to him about the bra (or anything else), go here:
http://www.sexualtips.net/ask_dr__pezzi.htm
If enough people 'bug' him, maybe he can create somehting at a more reasonable cost!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:25 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:04 AM
Well I'm all for it. But hasn't he considered that a breast increasing device, especially if it worked for a portion of users at least, might be a better profit than books?
Look at Brava, it's very expensive and it doesn't work for everyone, but it's quite a good business.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:13 AM
I would be concerned about the spot reduction claim as surely it's easier for him to find one person where it's worked (even if most bodies don't do it) that for someone else to prove a universal negative.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:15 AM
I agree with you, Moon! This could make some big bucks for him. He does realise that, so now w/o the FDA approval requirement, I'm hoping he'll decide to do this. I don't mind spending money on it, as much or more than for Brava. I feel strongly like it could work.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:19 AM
Hi Louise,
He asks for the challenger to set up a properly controlled experiment, so that means many test subjects, etc.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 29 2007, 10:22 AM
I hope he does Lilea! I wouldn't be able to speand that much money as Brava costs, but if the cost could be made more accesible without the FDA approval, I would try it too.
I'm also thinking that reduction might b harder than increase...
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Aug 29, 2007 10:22 AM
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Dr. Pezzi will proceed if...
August 30 2007, 2:13 AM
This is his reply to me about what would make him go ahead with this, to make it worth his time:
I could proceed if you can find 20 or more women willing to put $1000 down as a non-refundable deposit, and an additional $3000 due upon delivery of a functioning unit. I'm taking quite a risk by promising to sell each unit for $4000 because the 3-D molding process is very complex, and I can't make a "one size fits all" bra. I don't know if you watched the American Inventor series this year or last, but if you did, you know that invention prototyping companies could "blow through" $50K just to begin prototyping an invention this complex, and then they'd deliver one mockup with partial functionality (or perhaps just a non-functioning "dummy"), not 20 functioning units.
Incidentally, now that I have been reconsidering this idea, I thought of an addition that could potentially increase growth beyond the thermal effects.
Kevin
Naturally a contract would be drawn up so we knew we'd be getting something for sure!
Boy, well, I'm actually willing to pay more money for this and if anyone else is then maybe it could be done w/o needing 20 women.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
Alexia
(Login Alexia1981)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 6:39 AM
Sorry Lillea, but 4000 dollars!?! The guy is crazy!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 6:44 AM
Hi Alexia,
Brava costs close to that, and he is saying that the technology to really make this work isn't simple. It is a lot of money, but not compared to surgery.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:26 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 9:43 AM
I'm happy to pay that if it works! It seems a bit steep for a trial, usually whe you do a clinical trial they pay you. I'd also be nervous about giving him money before he starts, at the end of the day if it works it'll make him a very rich man (like someone else said even if it only gives a small improvement on some body types women will be willing to try). I think he should be the one to take the finanacial risk as he will get the profit. If I'm paying I'll expect shares!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 10:00 AM
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 30 2007, 11:17 AM
Yeah I agree, if I'd be investing in this, I'd want shares. Anything difefrent would be, bluntly put, a fruad. But I don't have that much money anyway.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 4:09 AM
Hi everyone,
I have decided to pay Dr. Pezzi a larger amount of money to develop one for me. He is an inventor, so that's what I approached him as. Below is his recent e-mail to me to address some of the concerns of people here, and my concerns:
About being part of a clinical trial, therefore being paid to try the bra:
This is a sale, NOT a clinical trial. Clinical trials are very iffy, and
sometimes even kill people. This is MUCH safer and far less iffy. Anyone who
doubts that doesn't need to take my word for it: just read books about
biochemistry and physiology, and they could verify for themselves that
enzymes are very temperature sensitive.
About shares in this:
Once you talk about shares, you talk about government intervention and the
zillion and one demands they make that go along with the issuance of stock
certificates. I am not willing to open that can of worms for $4000. Anyone
who truly wants to invest in this idea will have to pay much more than $4K for a piece of
the pie. BTW, if the device works as well as I think it will, I will sell it
for more than $4000. Women currently can pay more than that for breast
augmentation that gives them obviously "fake" breasts along with scars and
the risks inherent to surgery. There's nothing like real breast tissue.
I have a question for people who want shares in return for $4K: Did Henry
Ford give shares of Ford Motor Company to his first customers? Did Bill
Gates give Microsoft shares to his first customers? Microsoft's software is
so pathetic even after decades of "improvements" that I am now transitioning
to using open source software, not because it is cheaper, but because it is
usually better.
> 1. Is it likely that I could achieve an increase of at least 1 cup
> size (permanent, unless I lost weight) in 1-3 months? Is 2 cup sizes
> achievable?
The gains will depend on the factors I previously mentioned, and will
increase over time. I don't know what the maximum gain will be, but I am
certain that it will vary from woman to woman.
> 1. would this truly be concealable under clothing?
The bra pads will likely be somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick.
> 2. I have a latex sensitivity. Will anything touching my skin be made of
> latex?
No latex. Latex is a cheap rubber that is not suitable for casting.
> 4. will I have a series of 'domes' to wear, like Brava?
No, they will be inserts worn under a standard bra.
> 5. will I have to wear the unit occasionally after I am happy with
> results to maintain the size?
Probably. It is possible that won't be necessary, but I wouldn't count on
it. The body possesses a general tendency to regress after ANY gain, whether
that is in memory, strength, muscle size or tone, etc.
Incidentally, what those women on the forum are thinking is probably
something along the lines of believing that I'll make close to $4000 of
profit from each unit. I wish! What they don't know is the enormous expense
of developing new inventions.
In general, I think the problem is that the women on the forum don't know me
or my capabilities. I know that I, too, would want my questions answered
before I shelled out thousands of dollars for anything but, in retrospect, I
think it was a mistake for me to think that I could satisfactorily address
their concerns via this indirect way.
I have countless inventions to work on, so I must prioritize them. As you
know, it took some repeated arm twisting on your part to get me to consider
working on this idea. I was impressed by your determination and
intelligence, but I have to tell you that finding 19 or more others like you
on a forum is highly improbable. Therefore, I will continue to answer your
questions if you want a HTB for yourself, but I will withdraw my offer to
make the other 19 units and sell them for $4K. I know that it would take
months or years to recruit enough people, and I simply don't have the time
to invest in the required dialogue.
Kevin
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 5:05 AM
My .02 cents.
There are a few things that give me pause about this 'invention'.
First, enzyme activity is not exactly timed to meals or even to exercise. Metabolism is increased for several hours after exercise and therefore enhanced enzyme activity would also be extended. Meals take two hours to leave the stomach and enter the small intestine where digestion is completed and absorption is conducted. The total digestion process is dependent on many factors including what type of food is eaten (fats take longer to digest than carbohydrates eaten alone). Also, digestion is subject to interfering factors such as stress and exercise -blood supplies are diverted away from the stomach during such times. With these things in mind, an 'exact' science of enzyme activity would be suspect and subject to inaccuracies. There is nothing more complex and variable than the human body.
Second, enhancing heat would be much simpler than providing cold. If a person merely increased heat to the breasts during times they were not exercising then there should be some breast enhancement - even if it is not as much as if a woman also applied cold during exercise. I don't see why the temperatures must be 'exact'. There certainly would be an optimum range that should be the target, but there should be a flexible range. After all, our body temperatures vary by a degree or more, person to person. The heating device would be unlikely to be able to adjust itself based on the wearers own temperature. A ballpark range would likely produce some results - again maybe not as much result as a 'perfect' range, but results none the less.
Third, asking for 20 strangers to cough up $4000 (but now it seems that amount is not enough to tempt Kevin to build the device...) on an unproven device that has never been tested to provide heat or cold, much less provide results is an unlikely proposition. I am glad Kevin came to that conclusion on his own. If he is above board then he should realize the risk to both his business investment as well as the purchasers financial risk on an unproven device is much too great.
What Kevin could do is encourage those who feel this idea is valid to experiment. They could easily create their own 'invention' by improvising a way to apply about 99 - 100 degree temperatures to the breast for a period of two to four hours while at rest. A great time to do it would be after the evening meal while relaxing in front of the TV. An electric heating pad would probably be too hot, but warm/hot moist towel could be used and reheated during this 'session'. (Sure it sounds like a hassle, but what is there about NBE that is not a hassle) If they gained some after a few weeks, then they would know this kind of therapy would be valid. Kevin could then market to those interested women who wanted and easier way to get the results they had already learned they could achieve.
This way he wouldn't have to 'invest dialog' but could still attract investors to his product. However, he has clearly stated that he is too busy for this...
as I said, just my .02 cents, no disrespect to the doctor intended.
waxingmoon
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 5:16 AM
Thanks, Waxingmoon. I sent him your comments to see what he thinks! It must seem odd to people that I'm willing to go ahead with this for more than $4000, but oh well.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 10:25 AM
To be honest it depends how much spare cash you have! I'm trying to buy a 3 bed house in London on my own aiming to put in a big enough deposit to get it paid off in under 10 years so I have big financial commitments. I would be willing to pay more than that if I knew it would work, e.g. I have considered the 12k for celution but would like to get the maximum from nbe first. I would say I am more put off by his attitude than by the money. Of course we don't trust a total stranger, 20 people at 4k each is 80k!! He could just knock up something cheap at home and blame our adherence to instructions when it doesn't work! You bet he'll have a sharp contract so there is no comeback...how about a contract where we get a full refund if there is no affect in 3 months? I understand he will have to meet manufacturing costs but I cannot believe each unit is going to cost $4k (obviously that's £2k gbp but it's only a heat pad! - you can buy a small heat pad that mountaineers use to warm their hands for about £8).
In what way is this not a trial? Until he proves his apparatus works there is a risk to the consumer. I would prefer us all to go to US and have a physical and wear the thing in a hospital or whatever for 3 months for a proper trial - will he not trial it at all? What if it causes burning? What if after several months of use some part of the device breaks down making exposed components dangerous? I know this is unlikely but surely he needs to test it. Are you not concerned that as soon as you mentioned a clinical trial he has backed off and raised the price seemingly to put you off? Also if he can make one for you and only you for say 20k then he didn't need the 80k he originally asked for! All medications and above-board medical devices will have been trialled, he can't say it's 'iffy' it just may make him look stupid if he has no-one to blame when it doesn't work.
(Waxingmoon, I agree that it is not as simple as heat boobs for 1 hour after dinner as doesn't a steak take 12 hours to move through your intestine? If you have breakfast then walk to work are you supposed to be heating or cooling? I also agree that its a good idea to try a heat pad after dinner, perhaps you could eat a quickly absorbed meal to help and maybe sit in a bath of icewater at the same time to reduce the backside into the bargain - sounds like fun!)
Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 11:07 AM
Hi Louise,
Well, I haven't signed anything yet.
I still need to find out more, how he'll be testing this, etc.Lost Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 7:02 PM
lillea how much is he charging you for one unit?
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 8:38 PM
Hi Lost Sheep,
The cost hasn't been determined yet, but it will be far higher than $4000. I'll be consulting with him this weekend most likely.
I would really love it if people here would at least read The Science of Sex to do a full evaluation of his ideas, etc. It doesn't cost much, and it's an e-book. He has tips about what to do to improve libido, hormone levels, etc. It's a very densely filled book. There is bound to be something in it that will be of interest to people here aside from the breast stuff.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:27 AM
Lost Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
August 31 2007, 8:45 PM
lillea, thanks. i will give his sex book a try. please write when you find out a price. i would be interested if i had the money. would be awesome if it works for you! how many cups are you aiming for?
amiee
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 1 2007, 1:37 AM
Hi Aimee,
I hope you enjoy his book! It contains so much information!
I'd love 2-3 cup sizes, ideally. How about you?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Alcest
(Login Alcest)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 1 2007, 4:28 AM
A man writing a book about sex? You don't say! =P
Of course I'll give it a read. I'm still very interested in this Lillea---Though I agree with the others about the cost. Especially because I just graduated college in May and don't have that kind of $$ right now...
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 1 2007, 4:49 AM
Hi Alcest
Great.
He has many theories and of course I cannot say if all are them are right (he is quite candid, too, as you'll see when you read his work) but I felt overall that he knows more than most doctors and researchers. I have a friend who found information in his book that she couldn't find elsewhere despite researching for months. I recommend this book no matter what people may personally think about his style or views in some areas.I have his book about how to enlarge penises, too. He did it himself. It involved a medication and other things, but he really did it.
And to answer a much earlier reply, heat affects how enzymes work. It isn't about circulation only.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Alcest
(Login Alcest)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 12:21 AM
Ugh, Lillea, I started reading the Science of Sex book and Oh my god this guy is an *******. "if you help get me people to buy my book i'll tell you how to survive if you have cancer"???? WTF! They way he speaks in his writing is so incredibly arrogant and in my opinion he's a total douchebag. However, i will continue reading because I am interested in what he's going to say----Though I already knew what I've read so far.
He's just some guy obsessed with sex who's found a way to make it, and other things he's interested in, a career for himself.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 1:00 AM
Hi Alcest,
I understand your criticisms. I just looked at the cancer book info and I agree that does not come across well.
As I was saying before, despite how he comes across, some of the information he offers in his books can't be found elsewhere, yet seems to be quite accurate based on what two of my friends have experienced. Friends who have searched for the information for a long time. One is how the acne drug Accutane can affect negatively affect sexual health, sometimes permanently. That's actually what led me to buy the book in the first place because I've worried about my friend so much. My friend has searched for years to find out what to do about it, only finding one study that mentioned it, nothing else. There are suggestions in Science of Sex about what to do about it.
I spoke on the phone with him recently and he wasn't arrogant at all. He was very nice and helpful. But I'm not endorsing anything except for the book(s) and the concept behind this bra, which continues to intrigue me.
In case anyone is wondering, I didn't get the cancer book just for posting about his books here. lol
I don't have the money to go ahead with the device just for myself, it turns out, so that's that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Alcest, and everyone.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Alcest
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 1:24 AM
Lillea I have a question:
Pezzi is saying that phytoestrogens actually REDUCE breast size. However, many of the herbs we take have phytoestrogens in them and women have had results. And look at WU------ I'm so utterly confused. I don't know what to do.
Also---- Are you thinking about going on an estrogen patch as well? I'm afraid to though, it seems much riskier than taking herbs...
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 8:30 AM
Hi Alcest
I'm beginning to think that it's the galactogogues (so, they increase prolactin, which massage also does) that are helpful for NBE combined with the estrogen our body is already making. The thread below talks about this in depth
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...in+breasts
and really makes sense to me. Fennel and Fenugreek are strong galactogogues. That thread goes into detail about the programs/things that seem to be more successful - what they have in common. WU has a high number of galactogues in it, more than other BE products. And it doesn't contain SP, which is interesting. Most do.
I compiled a massive e-mail to Pezzi about these theories and programs like Grow Yours. I wonder if he'll end up changing some of the things he has in his book once he learns more. He updates from time to time.
But I do question the use of strong phytoestrogens like pure PM (interestingly, St. Herb PM actually contains some progesterone, I found out, so it isn't just estrogenic, so that might be why it's more sucessful). For women who are low in estrogen, then they might benefit a bit at first, but I really am concerned about screwing with receptors like that.
But it's so individual depending on a woman's hormonal profile. That thread is great, explaining a lot of this.
I wouldn't go on the patch, no. I think it's ultra risky, too. I still need to have my hormones properly checked to know what's going on.
Anyway, I'm glad that we can talk about these things!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:28 AM
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 10:39 AM
I think phytoestrogens and estrogenic herbs are still important tho, as are galactogogues. I think the 'magic' combination could be both estrogenic and galactogogic action at the same time. This particulary seems supported if you simply look into the nature - many herbs that affect hormonal system are both of that - FG, fennel, hops, borage, and many more. There must be a reason for that, nature is smart. The ratio of estrogenic to galactogogic action could also important. WU contains only one ingredient which is only estrogenic and not a galactogogue - soy.
The fact is that phytoestrogens diminish the action of our own estrogen. That's why it seems so unexplicable how we achieve gorwth. But we do, practice shows it. We don't know how big the action of phytoestrogens is on the body, maybe it's very small. Maybe it affects metabolism of horomes is some way which is unknown to science yet, that causes breast growth. That's my oppinion. I think it's kindof presumptious and naieve to think that you can explain evrything with theory. There i still plenty about the human body which we don't know yet.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 10:52 AM
Hi Moon,
Yes, the more I learn, the less I know. lol
It would be great if people in the medical community, etc. seriously looked into this. Serious lab work, etc. Some of the plastic surgeons would just hate it if we figured it out fully, of course.
I'm thankful for the people on the BE forums who are willing to experiment and question things.
I'm going back to trying hypnosis!
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:29 AM
Lost Sheep
(no login)
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 6:00 PM
Phytoestrogens do reduce breast size in some people. It happened to me, to put it mildly. (They did far more to my breasts than just reduce them.) I think Pezzi is saying is that it's more likely to happen in women that already have very high estrogen before taking the herbs, which I did. He wrote a good article on competitive inhibition, should anyone want to browse his site.
I had very large breasts and didn't take herbs for enlargement. My ND, a total crook, gave them to me for a minor issue, saying they'd help. Turns out I never needed them in the first place, but that's another story. Anyway, even knowing their supposed enhancement abilities, I didn't think they'd affect my breasts at all. I was wrong. They've destroyed my body, my health, and a LOT of my breast tissue, and I had tons to begin with. Once they changed my hormones, I went through a series of chain reactions. I've had multiple side effects and consider them poison, but I'm not going to list all of the problems I've had here, given how my experience was received in the past. Messing with hormones can be extremely dangerous, as can herbs. They're not remotely safe simply because they're natural, and many of the companies that promote them lie. I could fill pages with the misinformation on Greenbush's site alone, being that's the company I used. It's still funny to me that they're called breast ENHANCEMENT herbs, seeing as I was 100% happy with my breasts before them and completely destroyed after.
If I had one chance to do something over, I never would have touched them. Worst mistake of my life. Will other people lose breast tissue, have horrible side effects, react the same way? I don't know. If they have incredibly high estrogen, I would think so and SERIOUSLY warn them to watch out, but that's all I can do. From what I've read here, my body was completely different than other women on the board, since a lot of people seem to be dealing with low estrogen and excess androgens. I wasn't. That may account for the different reactions. Still, I know Pezzi's take is right, all too unfortunately for me.
Kate
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 7:09 PM
I think a lot of us may have too much testosterone and eostrogen compared to progesterone. The phytoestrogens technically should block receptors for E and T so giving a higher ratio of P in the system. If it was just a matter of more hormones BO would always work so we know it must be more complicated. Also the phytoestrogens must do something if they are capable of stalling.
What we need is someone with a lot of time on their hands to plough through all the personal programs, see who has had less than 1 inch (no significant result), 1-2 inch (standard result) 2+ inches (great result), and what these groups had in common. Also I'd be intrested to know why some people grow to start, change nothing, stop growing and never restart - did they just reach their genetic potential. Why do some people not grow boobs during puberty then get a D in their twenties with some chicken feet and massage? There's science in there somewhere and not knowing the answer's beginning to annoy me! Research time!
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Possible new device for NBE! Feedback needed.
September 6 2007, 9:03 PM
Thank you for posting, Kate. It's so awful what happened to you.
I agree that Pezzi seems to understand just how bad things can get for some people. People need to be very careful.I agree with you, Louise! I would love if it someone took that on!