[surferjoe2007]

Hey Surferjoe! I might try adding just a little PC during my luteal this time while I wait for the vitex to start working since it takes a couple months. Have people grown using just vitex long-term? I haven't been able to find any studies showing how much vitex increases levels of progesterone, have you? It would be interesting to see the percentages.

One thing I'm still not clear about is if the goal of NBE is to balance hormones or to raise them higher than normal. If you simply get adequate levels and ratios of estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, etc., will your boobs grow? Or do you need to have hormones elevated above normal (or the high end of normal) to prompt growth?

I'm working on solving this mystery of why both my progesterone and estrogen are low so I'll let you all know when I figure it out!

I found a couple studies that show vitex raises progesterone but not by how much. I've heard stories of it taking many months to rebalance with vitex.

The basic goal of NBE is to raise hormones. Hormones lead to boobs. But it isn't that simple. An imbalance where only 1 hormone is high will have less effect, or in extreme cases the opposite effect with shrinkage. Studies with combined hormones show an upward curve, while studies with estrogen alone have a bell curve, where past a certain amount it actually has a reduced effect. Sensitivity to hormones is also an issue; both natural sensitivity and increasing it with herbs such as shatavari or fenugreek. Nutrition is also a big part, because it is the materials and tools without which nothing can happen; hormones are only signals.

High prolactin often causes other hormones to be low, so it's something to check. Low nutrition is another possibility, especially not enough whole grains. High prolactin can be corrected with dopamine herbs such as mucuna pruriens or ginseng. Low nutrition must be corrected with proper nutrition, and no amount of herbal signals will let you make something out of nothing.