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Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 17 2008 at 2:23 PM madboobie (Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER

Hi All,

I am hoping you can help me, as I am a bit confused.

Could someone please explain the rationale for beginning both on Day 1 of your cycle (ie most brands) or on Day 7 (ie Bella's PM)?

I have started on day 7 as her explanation of why made sense to me and I hoped it would not mess up my cycle.. but in short, it has, and now I am 2 weeks late.

If I ever get a period again would it be better to start on day 1 then? Or stick with what I am doing and hope things settle down? Or reduce the dose? Or what?!

I have no other symptoms really but just no period and it is bugging me.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.




Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 17 2008, 3:00 PM

I took the recommended dose days 1-13 and double on day 14, then stop for 2 weeks. I'd go for longer if I had a longer cycle but the Yasmin keeps it to 28 days. The pic I put in your other post shows how estrogen starts to rise from the beginning of the cycle peaking at day 14 so I was trying to mimic this. I'm not sure if started lower and taking more as the cycle progressses would be better.



tattoolady1
(no login)
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 17 2008, 4:50 PM

i got really confused about this as well.

i take it starting day 7 (or the last day of my period) for 14 days. those are the days your hormones are at their highest levels. i've also see better results this way.

if i take it at the beginning of my period for 14 days i start spotting and my period is heavier.

i saw in the other forum you couldn't find a picture of the menstrual cycle. if you google "menstrual cycle" it should come up immediately, photo chart and all.




ShyBoobs
(Login ShyBoobs)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 17 2008, 6:21 PM

I do the days 1-14 thing. I didn't complete the full cycle yet, but so far there's been no spotting at least. And if it can lengthen my short cycle of 24 days to 28, I would be thrilled. Personally, I can see the logic in both methods. Also different people respond differently to PM. The method may or may not have the affect on your cycle as well.

I remember most brands mentioning that your body will probably try to adjust while using PM. If your cycle is still screwed up after the next one, maybe you should lower the dosage so that your body can properly adjust. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck!



madboobie
(Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER
tattoolady1....
December 17 2008, 9:17 PM

..did your cycle lengthen when you took PM as you described?

Can someone also explain to me in words of one syllable why most manufacturers advise the days 1-14 method, given that day 1 onwards your natural oestrogen is at its lowest, thus (as I understand it) triggering menstruation?

Because surely to raise the levels would stop / reduce the period and that doesn't seem good to me?

That said the 7-21 days method has sure buggered up (excuse me) my cycle.

Do you think its just a case of try each and see?

I think I will reduce the dose nest month though as I am sick of this no period scenario.

It's reassuring to know others have been confused too though. Thought I was just being really dim about it!



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 17 2008, 11:08 PM

I thought it was because although estrogen is at its lowest when it triggers your period this is actually the end of the last cycle and then from day 1 it begins to increase i.e. day 1 level is higher than days 27-28 because the progesterone inhibits it from day 14 onwards. When you start the contraceptive pill you start on day 1, then when you stop taking the pill on day 21 it triggers your next period about 3-4 days later and then the next month you start taking the pills again 7 days after you took the last one to give a 28 day cycle. Sorry, I'm rubbish at explaining things!



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 22 2008, 5:50 AM

I don't think that the drop in estrogen brings on menstruation. It should be the drop in progesterone. Progesterone is what holds everything in. When the progesterone goes back down to bottom, there is no longer enough to hold the lining in therefore menstruation starts.

Receptor sensitivity is brought on by depriving the receptor of it's target hormone. Estrogen receptors are the most sensitive when they have been deprived of estrogen the longest.

The reason that I would say that most manufacturers recommend days 1-14 is because that is when estrogen is the lowest and therefore estrogen receptor sites are the most sensitive. For the other lady who has the website that recommends days 7-21, I would say that she is just putting that principle to work by waiting longer. I think that this is logical but by running further into the cycle, she runs into the ramp up of progesterone. So, she does have a better idea in my opinion, but I would say to start on the day that menstruation ends, whenever that is, and to go for 14 days from that day. Further, to help support the cycle as much as possible, I would say to:
* Take a one day break on ovualtion day which is around day 12 to 14 when lutenizing hormone is at its peak OR
* Rather than lower the dosage, remove days from the length of time that PM is taken. Example: Start PM on day 5 for 14 days. If a 28 day cycle is 29 days long, take PM for 13 days the next month. OR
* Take progesterone cream on the day after the last dosage of PM for that month. OR
* Some combination of the above.

The reason that PM is probably interfering with the cycle length (and spotting) is because PM must interfere with progesterone somehow, perhaps by competition. It should be remembered, that a lot of early breast development takes place before menarche (first period) when there is, in theory, not yet any progesterone manufacturing due to the lack of ovulation/corpus luteum. NBE is really more of a focus on estrogen.

If I were to take a guess, I would say that a one time dosage of USP progesterone cream on the day after the last dosage of PM for the month may help keep the cycle regulated. For estrogen receptor sensitivity, I think that the best days are (end of menstruation day) to +14. Trimming days off the length of time PM is taken is probably a better idea than lowering the overall dosage. On the other hand, I don't know of anyone who has tried ramping PM.

Wahaika

Don't forget the massage component. I think that is more important than the internals because it is more direct.



This message has been edited by Wahaika on Dec 22, 2008 6:02 AM




Mariah
(Login MariahsDs)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 22 2008, 3:53 PM

Wahaika,

So you are saying not to take PM on days 1-14, but to start later? Why? Ainterol suggested that I take it daily with no breaks, but it just doesn't seem logica to me. By taking progesterone cream, it would balance my cycle? Meaning on time periods and no spotting?

Thanks

P.S sorry for the misunderstanding with the post the other day!



ShyBoobs
(no login)
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 22 2008, 6:50 PM

"If I were to take a guess, I would say that a one time dosage of USP progesterone cream on the day after the last dosage of PM for the month may help keep the cycle regulated. For estrogen receptor sensitivity, I think that the best days are (end of menstruation day) to +14."

Mariah, I think he's saying that it would be BETTER to start on the last day of menstruation instead of the 1st. You can still take PM using the 1-14 method, but if you do, you should take PC the DAY AFTER the last dose of PM for the month, if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong, Wahaika). He's not saying you shouldn't. Both methods work on the same principle, Bella is just waiting longer, running into the time progesterone starts to increase.

Since I already use PC, I'm just gonna stick to my guns with the days 1-14 method. I haven't had spotting and in fact, my cycle has already been lengthened. It's usually 24 days but now it's day 26 and I haven't started menstruation yet. So I'm a happy camper. XD




Mariah
(Login MariahsDs)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 22 2008, 10:49 PM

I do not know why you would want to increase your estrogen during your progesterone phase (days 15-28). Won't that cause a problem in the natural cycle? It does not make sense to do what Bella has suggested. It also soe not make sense to do what Ainterol suggested too, by taking it daily. I would probaby do days 1-14 PM and then days 15-28 Progesterone Cream. Thanks shyboobs, your program seems to make sense to me.




ShyBoobs
(no login)
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 23 2008, 4:02 AM

Yeah, I have to agree that Ainterol's suggestion sounds unwise. I really think that's a bad idea and it'll prolly mess up your cycle big time. As for Bella's idea, I think that progesterone sensitizes the estrogen receptors so maybe it'll make your body more responsive to the PM.

But, you're quite welcome. ^_^ We're all here to help each other! Hope things are workin' out for you.



madboobie
(Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER
progesterone cream
December 23 2008, 3:56 PM

Girls,

what name is this sold under? Is it applied direct to the boobs?

Thanks



ShyBoobs
(no login)
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 23 2008, 4:30 PM

Madboobie,

There are many usp progesterone creams out there. But what you should do is make sure it is made to fit Dr. John Lee's specifications. I dunno if you heard of him yet, but he's like the guru for women's hormonal issues and what not.

The one I use has his name on it...if you took the hormonal test, it's advertised there. The name is Progesterall.



ShyBoobs
(no login)
PC application
December 23 2008, 4:38 PM

Oh yeah, it is not recommended to apply PC directly to boobs. Especially not for boob growth. It's been said that it prevents fat from collecting in the area it's applied to or somethin' along those lines. (If somebody knows more on this, feel free to explain) You have to apply it to thin-skinned areas like face, inner arms, wrists, inner thighs and back of knees. Not boobs.

Gawd, is it me or am I starting to talk alot in this forum? Lol I used to barely talk.



dandelion
(Login dandelion1)
Re: Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 23 2008, 4:40 PM

i took bellas 7 days after my cycle and it totally screwed up my period as well - i had it twice the first month and the second month i was two weeks late. so i will do like it was suggested above and take it after the last day of my period, which means I will start at day 5 instead of 7. not much of a difference but we'll see



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Calling all PM users... any type of PM!
December 30 2008, 1:59 AM

Dandelion,

Don't forget also that one way to adjust is by taking days off the end. So instead of (last day of menstruation) for 14 days, try 13 then 12, etc.

PM is also not for everyone. When Shell and Jelly took it, they had problems with their knees for a while so the side effects are definitely there.

Look at the cycle graph. See how progesterone starts a steep climb on day 14? See how it peaks at day 21?

By going from day 5 to day 19 you would (theoretically) finish before the really big climb and avoid the peak completely. Only two days difference. But its all theory anyway. I am pretty sure that Jelly and Shell did the 1-14 method. PM might end up to be one of those things that is still being figured out.

I think that massage wise, St Herb PM cream + greenbush fenugreek extract + heat is one of the best things that one could do.

Good luck!

Wahaika

[admin]

Plz answer, ?? about robust pills
June 1 2009 at 4:34 PM christi727 (Login christi727)

What is the logic behind taking it 15 days and 15 off? Are we supposed to grow during the 15 days we are not taking it?

After I take it for 15 days, do I stop and resume after another 15 days instead of waiting for the first day of my period nxt month?




Sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Plz answer, ?? about robust pills
June 2 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi,
I am no expert with PM here but i think that the 15 days on and off(cycling) is so that your body doesn't become overloaded with the estrogenic herbs since PM is very strong.The growing should happen with time.

And as i understood from the ladies here you take it the first day of your period for 15 days and the you start 15 days of taking and 15 days of stopping.I really wish someone would explain it better because it seems everyone is taking it according to how their body reacts.

Some take less than 15 days because of the late periods they get.So start with the first day of your period and if you come very late the next cycle yo should reduce your dose or the number of days you take them in...Hope that this helps and someone more knowlegable with PM Interferes and gives more accurate information.Good luck!



christi727
(Login christi727)
thank you
June 3 2009, 7:28 AM

Thanks for answering. Started to feel ignored haha.
Not really sure about this either. I already have irregular periods so this is why I asked. Ill try and look around her for some more info. Again thanks :-)



Memee
(Login MemeeGurl)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Plz answer, ?? about robust pills
June 5 2009, 5:22 PM

A quick google on Menstrual Cycle and you will read about the Follicle and Luteal Phase. In FP, estrogen is at its highest and that is why we take PM to help boost the estrogen levels at this time. Some people choose to take PM 5-7 days after first day of period because estrogen levels are at its lowest in the beginning. Everyone is different, just pay attention to how you react to PM and adjust amounts mg's and days. It is all just a try as you go and find the right amount for yourself. And cycling helps your body stay balance. Many people experience messed up periods as you can tell. PM is a strong herb, so read read and read. There are lotts of first hand experience on this forum, and a great deal of knowledge that you can't get anywhere else. I know its overwhelming but its better to know the risk first before you take the plunge. Good luck to you

xoxo
Memee

[admin]

Taking PM- confused
September 24 2008 at 6:32 PM LittleRocks (Login LittleRocks)

After doing some reading and research on using PM for breast enhancement, Im confused.
Some info says take the first dose on the 1st day of your cycle, another says take it on the 7th day of your cycle and others say on the 8th day of your cycle.
To add to this confusion, some say take it 15 days on, 15 days off, and others say take it for 21 days on, 7 days off.

What are we supposed to believe?
I havent started taking anything yet and wont until I get the correct answers.

Perhaps you ladies who are taking PM already can shed some intelligent light on this.

Thank you
Lisa




Katie
(Login katiep2804)
Hey
September 24 2008, 9:04 PM

Hey, we are all using different PMs and my advise it to just go with whatever the product you are using says to do. I was confused too before I started and I'm getting results. I take it 15 days on 15 off. Maybe see what others say too as i'm no expert but I always go for whats on the bottle.

Good luck
Katie




duelli
(Login duelli)
Re: Taking PM- confused
September 24 2008, 10:28 PM

I'm pretty new to PM and just started taking it a little over a week ago but the kind I take says to start on day 7 of your cycle and take for 14 days only and then repeat on day 7 of the next cycle and so on. Her reasons for that are from her personal experience (the owner) and logic. I'd copy and paste the info from her site but it won't let me, lol .

Basically it says that doing the above raises estrogen levels at the appropriate times. She says that doing it on day one is too early and can cause your period to stall. And then after the 14 days your estrogen naturally starts dropping off which signals your body to start its next period. The way she puts it makes sense but I'm defintely not an expert so I don't know for sure.

I know that a lot of people have their periods late doing it the other ways so I'm hoping i can keep my normal cycle if I do it this way but only time will tell. I'll update after AF is due.




double_ace
(Login double_ace)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Taking PM- confused
October 1 2008, 1:28 AM

But this doesn't make sense, if your estrogen level drops at 14 days isn't this when you should be taking estrogenic supplements to keep estrogenic levels high and steady instead of having REALLY high levels of estrogen one moment and super low levels the next? it doesn't add up



Duelli
(Login duelli)
Re: Taking PM- confused
October 1 2008, 6:20 AM

Double Ace, the levels will not be steady if you take PM all the way through as your body naturally drops the levels on it's own. Maybe if you took PM *only* during the time that it naturally drops could you possibly try to make it steady. But if you do that you'll never have a higher than normal estrogen spike. If your boobs aren't growing on their own then the levels of estrogen in your body aren't high enough to cause growth in the first place so that wouldn't be benefial IMO.

Is breast growth dependent on something being steady? Not from what I have read all over this board and others. There is always talk of ramping up and also stalling. Taking breaks, doing a cleanse, etc. The way that it is described to me with my PM is that it is like having a mini puberty every time you do the 14 days on PM. This is how normal natural growth occurs in the first place so it makes perfect sense to mimic that. When your boobs are growing on their own during puberty, you do not have a steady stream of high estrogen. Your body naturally drops its levels on its own. If you take the PM all the way through then at best you will bring your estrogen levels up to the level that they naturally are when they peak without PM use and that isn't high enough to grow boobs. And in doing so you will mess up your cycle.




double_ace
(Login double_ace)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Taking PM- confused
October 1 2008, 8:17 AM

So in other words the PM will be boosting the estrogen levels when it's at its highest peak, which will allow your breasts to grow?
And then when the levels in your body drops and you don't take any estrogenic supplements, that is when your body rests?

In the japanese NBE thread they mentioned that you should only take the PM for 14-15 days after the first day of your period (ovulation), and then for the second half of your cycle when you do have your period, you take a progesterone supplement to higher those levels.

does this also mean that when your progesterone levels are high that's when you take progesterone supplements to 'up' those levels?

So you're basically just making the hormone levels you alrady have in your body a little higher than?




topazblue
(Login topazblue)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Taking PM- confused
October 1 2008, 11:52 AM

Hi Double Ace

Just posted a msg in the Japanese Bust Enhancement thread - I've gone back to this method.




Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Taking PM- confused
October 1 2008, 6:51 PM

I think you're getting confused - have a look at the link to the pic I posted in the thread I started a couple of days ago about cycling herbs.

Your first day of bleeding is cycle day 1, your estrogen level then gets progressively higher for the next 14 days and when it peaks it triggers ovulation (which is releasing the follicle not getting your period), then the progesterone takes over and the estrogen level drops off.




Duelli
(Login duelli)
Re: Taking PM- confused
October 1 2008, 7:31 PM

Actually CD1-5 are when both estrogen and progesterone levels are at their lowest. Estrogen levels do NOT begin to rise at day 1 of your cycle progressively. It is true that estrogen levels tend to peak at day 14, which means that CD7-21 give you the highest levels of estrogen in your body with day 14 being the highest on average. I have to stress the average part as I've been doing BBT charts and dealing with infertility for enough years to know that "averages" often mean nothing.