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Reishi inhibits 5 ar @ 90%

#1

Reishi stimulates the immune system (beta-1,3-D-glucan), I fail to see where something that prevents cancer, raises T cells, boosts immune system, inhibits DHT (pharma class), and has estrogenic properties (amongst many other benefits) isn't enough for NBE, I wouldn't suggest toxic levels of coumarins.


Quote:some coumarins and their active metabolite 7-hydroxycoumarin analogs have shown sulfatase and aromatase inhibitory activities.

Review of Coumarin Derivatives in Pharmacotherapy of Breast Cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772644/

Coumarin Plant Poisoning
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/81...verview#a4

Ganoderma lucidum:Constituents and Phytochemicals.
http://www.medicinabiomolecular.com.br/b...b-0223.pdf
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#2

(27-04-2016, 04:15 AM)Lotus Wrote:  Ganoderma lucidum:Constituents and Phytochemicals.
http://www.medicinabiomolecular.com.br/b...b-0223.pdf

Quote:Reishi contains several constituents, including sterols, coumarin

Enough said.
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#3

Oh, and for an idea of the toxicity potential of reishi:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mic...000000.pdf
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#4

(27-04-2016, 07:20 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote:  Oh, and for an idea of the toxicity potential of reishi:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mic...000000.pdf

We already know reishi contains coumarins (albeit low concentrations).

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of low and high concentrations of 3 different extracts of G. lucidum (GL, Reishi and PSGL) on the viability of 1) Jurkat E6.1 cells, 2) LG2 cells, and 3) peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) isolated from a) healthy adults, b) healthy children, and c) paediatric patients undergoing chemotherapy. We hypothesize that at low concentrations (1 – 30 μg/mL), extracts of G. lucidum will stimulate cells of the immune system, and at high concentrations (200 – 350 μg/mL), extracts of G. lucidum will cause toxicity in cells of the immune system.


Analysis:
Water 6.9% - Protein 26.4% - Fat 4.5% - Food Fiber 0.1% Ash 19.0% - Carbohydrate 43.1%

Inorganic Matter: Calcium 832 mg/100 g,Phosphorus 4,150 mg/100 g,Iron 82.6 mg/100 g,Magnesium 1,030 mg/100 g,Natrium 375 mg/100 g,Potassium 3,590 mg/100 g,

Vitamins:Vitamin B1 3.49 mg/100 g,Vitamin B2 17.10 mg/100 g,Vitamin B6 0.71 mg/100 g,Choline 1,150 mg/100 g ,Niacin 61.9 mg/100 g,Inositol 307 mg/100 g,Polysaccharide 11.4%
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#5

(27-04-2016, 07:35 PM)Lotus Wrote:  
(27-04-2016, 07:20 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote:  Oh, and for an idea of the toxicity potential of reishi:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mic...000000.pdf

We already know reishi contains coumarins (albeit low concentrations).

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of low and high concentrations of 3 different extracts of G. lucidum (GL, Reishi and PSGL) on the viability of 1) Jurkat E6.1 cells, 2) LG2 cells, and 3) peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) isolated from a) healthy adults, b) healthy children, and c) paediatric patients undergoing chemotherapy. We hypothesize that at low concentrations (1 – 30 μg/mL), extracts of G. lucidum will stimulate cells of the immune system, and at high concentrations (200 – 350 μg/mL), extracts of G. lucidum will cause toxicity in cells of the immune system.

Right. And those were targeted extracts containing only the anti-cancer actives, so even the anti-cancer actives can become toxic.

Quote:Coumarin is moderately toxic to the liver and kidneys, with a median lethal dose (LD50) of 275 mg/kg, a low toxicity compared to related compounds. Though it is only somewhat dangerous to humans, coumarin is hepatotoxic in rats, but less so in mice.

It actually takes MORE coumarin than the anti-cancer actives in reishi extracts targeted towards anti-cancer to reach toxic levels. Almost anything can become toxic at high enough levels, even water. My point is that the anti-androgen in reishi IS the coumarin, and it's very low concentration compared to things with much higher toxicity. That's why I discarded reishi as an anti-androgen in my own research. I'm not saying reishi isn't great to use for its other properties, just that it's very poor to use for anti-androgen.

nightgazer12, I think I was probably the one who said something like that once upon a time. Though that was before I did more research and realized that the two actives in chinese skullcap while working at the target point I talked about, only reached about 50% total efficacy. So it only blocks half of your testosterone production on its own, and at rather high doses. Those doses are safe though, chinese skullcap is incredibly safe. It just gets pricier than you might expect due to the high doses. You also need to not be squeamish about taking fistfuls of pills. Because you literally would be taking fistfuls of capsules of chinese skullcap alone to reach a 50% reduction in testosterone from chinese skullcap.
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#6

(27-04-2016, 02:42 AM)AbiDrew85 Wrote:  Breast growth CAN occur even with T that high, but it'll be slower. Alternatives that shouldn't mess up BO are chinese skullcap, EGCg from green tea extract, and anything containing coumarin, which is the active in the reishi you mentioned when it comes to anti-androgenic properties. Though I'd try to get something purer in the coumarin department.

What am I missing here?, or which is it?...............
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#7

I took CS (4x a day) and Reishi 4x per day (although at separate times). CS was to sedative for me, switched to reishi.


Chinese Skullcap Inhibits the 5alpha-reductase enzyme-
Baicalein has been shown to inhibit the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is strongly associated with the development of prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and prostate cancer. As such, baicalein is reported to be potentially useful for the prevention and/or treatment of androgen-dependent (testosterone-driven) disorders, including prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.


Herbs with HPA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis) activity: Progestagenics:

• Alchemilla vulgaris (Ladie's mantle)
• Angelica sinensis (Dong Quai)
• Areca catechu (Betel nut)
• Ceanothus americanus (Red Root)
• Vitex agnus-castus (Chasteberry)

Chinese herbal formula: including:

• Angelica sinensis (Dong Quai)
• Astragalus membranaceus (Astragalus)
• Gardenia jasminoides (Zhi zi)
• Leonurus heterophyllus (Chinese Motherwort)
• Panax notoginseng (Pseudoginseng)
• Rubia cordifolia (Madder)
• Scutellaria baicalensis (Baical Skullcap)
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#8

Lotus, the links you used to show coumarin being more toxic than it is were about its derivatives, not coumarin itself. Properly handled, plants containing coumarin are generally quite safe. It's when they're allowed to decompose in the presence of certain bacteria and fungi that the various dangerous derivatives occur. None of those are present in a healthy human gut, so we aren't going to accidentally convert it internally either as long as our gut is healthy. I COULD perhaps see some danger if someone had a particularly unhealthy gut and just happened to be infected by one of the critters that convert coumarin into a dangerous derivative, but that risk should be much much lower than you're painting.

The concentration of coumarin, not it's derivatives, which aren't anti-androgenic anyways, that's effective at blocking testosterone production is significantly below the toxic dose. There's no real risk in reaching toxicity if you're using an appropriate scale to measure your anti-androgenic dose. You do need a scale sensitive down to the mg though, and a fairly controlled environment to use said scale in so that simple gusts don't throw it off, yes, they're THAT sensitive that merely passing a hand by it quickly enough to cause a wind shear will throw it off for a few seconds. I have one.
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#9

(27-04-2016, 08:07 PM)Lotus Wrote:  
(27-04-2016, 02:42 AM)AbiDrew85 Wrote:  Breast growth CAN occur even with T that high, but it'll be slower. Alternatives that shouldn't mess up BO are chinese skullcap, EGCg from green tea extract, and anything containing coumarin, which is the active in the reishi you mentioned when it comes to anti-androgenic properties. Though I'd try to get something purer in the coumarin department.

What am I missing here?, or which is it?...............

I don't understand what you're getting at here? Those are three very different suggestions in that quote. Very different actives in each. And my suggestion regarding something purer in coumarin content was a specific advisement against reishi for anti-androgen due to its other, stronger, and riskier actives.

EDIT: Also the fact that reishi has estrogenic properties from the other sterols, which WOULD mess up BO. Slow it at the very least.
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#10

(27-04-2016, 08:10 PM)Lotus Wrote:  I took CS (4x a day) and Reishi 4x per day (although at separate times). CS was to sedative for me, switched to reishi.

I didn't experience the sedative effect myself while on it, though that is one of its original uses, so yeah, that is something that could happen. I was also on a lot more CS while I was on it. You either hadn't paid much attention to even my prior research to realize that dose wasn't very effective anyway, or maybe didn't care. I know I've posted before all of what I'm posting here about all these things. I am sorry to hear you experienced that side effect from CS.
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