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The Breast Growth Hormones, including IGF, HGF and how macromastia happens
#1
I found some interesting articles on hormonal breast enlargement and I thought I would share.  Sorry if this has been covered before:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_development
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormonal...nhancement
And there are studies in the references at the bottom. The articles nicely explain the various hormones and other factors involved in breast development.

Estrogen and progesterone play a major part, but what's new to me is that IGF and HGF (hepatocyte growth factor) are major too, not minor.  It references a study on using estrogen to enlarge breasts, which found that the only women who grew from estrogen were those whose bodies responded to the estrogen by making IGF.  HGF plays a major role too, and IGF+HGF is more effective than IGF alone.  Furthermore those who don't make enough IGF are able to grow once IGF is supplied.  Macromastia means clinically oversized breasts, often H cup and much larger.  Those with macromastia have normal estrogen and progesterone, but their breast cells make nearly twice as much IGF and nearly 6 times as much HGF.  In fact taking the stromal cells (connective tissue cells) from the breasts of someone with macromastia and putting them among normal breast cells induces macromastia in the normal breast cells, which might be from the IGF and/or HGF that the macromastia stromal cells make:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4124011/
Even in those who merely have large breasts IGF tends to be a bit higher than normal. And breasts that make little IGF is one possible cause of being small chested, even when estrogen is increased.

Both IGF and HGF are local hormones which is why breast cells make them in response to estrogen; so that they may be used locally.  Both cause general tissue growth where they are applied.  i.e., they aren't just for boobs, they're for any tissue.  IGF is insulin like growth factor.  Insulin is a storage hormone not only for sugar, but also for protein and fat.  I am not sure how IGF is similar or different from insulin.  In fact IGF is popular in bodybuilder forums for storing protein in muscles.  HGF results in cell multiplication and so often increases in response to injury.  Both benign and cancerous tumors are likewise accompanied by greatly increased HGF levels.  So both lead to growth wherever they are present and would have to be spot applied, not taken orally.  There is some concern that they may lead to increased cancer risk, especially HGF as it can make cells multiply faster.

For sources of IGF I found IGF injections, deer antler velvet IGF spray, cinammon and to a lesser extent fenugreek:
http://www.ironmagazine.com/blog/2012/ci...ates-skin/
However while I found examples of NBE using IGF injections and deer antler velvet IGF spray, I couldn't find anything for cinnamon.

Here's what I found for IGF injections
http://www.superiormuscle.com/forums/wom...gf-1-girls
A user's girlfriend got tremendous growth in her breasts and butt (mainly the butt) in only a couple weeks.  Other posters are confused because they assumed IGF is only for muscle.

Deer antler velvet is also popular for NBE.

For HGF the only way I found to increase it was Nadroparin:
http://bmcresnotes.biomedcentral.com/art...0500-5-517
It can actually lead to nearly a 6 fold increase, same as what is found in macromastia.  So in theory with IGF injections and nadroparin one could induce macromastia.  In theory; I didn't find any studies testing this out.

In case it isn't clear already, these are all powerful and dangerous hormones that shouldn't be taken lightly.  That is why they can be so effective so fast.  The same bodybuilders that abuse IGF are the type who abuse steroids too.  From what I can tell it seems safer than other hormones, but not without risk.  I was surprised to find that, unlike testosterone and estrogen, it is legal for a random person to own IGF:
http://www.musclechemistry.com/upload/st...-have.html
It is banned in sports though that's poorly enforced and many athletes abuse it.

Nadroparin is used to prevent clotting after surgery.  There is some discussion in the article about converting it to another molecule to get the HGF generating effect without the dangerous side effects of the drug. As mentioned there is also the concern of HGF itself possibly promoting cancer.  However nadroparin is routinely used after cancer removal surgery so it most not be nearly as dangerous as estrogen:
http://www.touchoncology.com/system/file...barone.pdf 
During breast cancer OTOH any source of estrogen is to be avoided and anti-estrogen drugs are often used.

While I found examples of using IGF for breast enlargement, I couldn't find anything for HGF.  Unlike other hormonal drugs, breast enlargement is not listed among the side effects for nadroparin.  It could be that IGF is much more important and/or that HGF merely enhances the effects of IGF.

As for applications, first be careful in messing with any of this.  Read up on the proper dosages and any possible negative effects first, being especially wary with the pure hormone or drugs.  Second it may be a good idea to include deer antler velvet or maybe cinammon oil in an NBE program, alongside the usual herbs for estrogen, progesterone and anti-testosterone.  Because those whose bodies don't make enough IGF could be stuck and unable to grow without it, and even those who do make IGF might benefit tremendously from more.  It should be applied directly to the breast and/or butt, not taken orally.  Third I don't know a practical way to increase HGF (not without thinning your blood with a prescription-only drug), so that could be something to research further.  Though HGH, IGF and estrogen may help increase the body's production of HGF. Likewise I found mixed information on deer velvet and minimal information on cinnamon. How well they actually help IGF would be something to look into.
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#2
I looked a bit more into the legality, safety and sources of pure IGF-1.  After all a hormone could be as dangerous as anabolic steroids or it could be relatively safe (though not without risks) like progesterone cream.

It is easy to get for "research purposes", you can even find it on Amazon, but it is not legal to use without a prescription:
https://www.steroid.com/igf.php
https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabo...61570.html

Found mixed information on whether deer antler has any significant amount of IGF.  One sports anti-doping agency actually lifted its ban on deer antler because it said the amount of IGF wasn't that much.

As for safety:
http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/20...nd-danger/
http://www.esupplements.com/article/igf-1-side-effects/
https://www.steroid.com/igf.php

Short term it may lead to hypoglycemia, though not as much as actual insulin.  The effects of long term overdosage is unknown.  But it is speculated that it could be similar to GH: hypoglycemia, edema (swelling due to trapped fluids), swelling of soft tissues, hyperandrogenism (too much testosterone in women).  They also speculate it could lead to acromegaly (abnormally large hands, feet and protruding facial features) with prolonged use.  But these effects haven't been observed.  They have observed cardiomyopathy in athletes, a weakened heart.  Higher natural IGF in older men is associated with increased cancer risk.

More info on using IGF for breast enlargement:
http://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3-hgh-...1-lr3.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9610425
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Reproduc...nlargement
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/14...1.full.pdf
http://www.anabolicsteroids-hormoneknowl...GFOUR.html
https://books.google.com/books?id=rLQyAw...es&f=false
It mostly seems theoretical, or something that happens to male bodybuilders who use IGF with tips on how to avoid it. I only found the one example of a woman who tried it.

So while it's less harmful than most other hormones, it still seems dangerous and illegal to use.

Natural ways to increase IGH:
http://www.jdmoyer.com/2011/08/02/four-s...ld-muscle/
You can also increase it via increased HGH and all the ways to increase your body's production of HGH. Including 6,000 mg L-arginine or eating good sources of L-arginine: meat and nuts.
 Reply
#3
Appreciate the research surfer, i think this could be too risky as how invasive carcominas are:



Fibroblast Hepatocyte Growth Factor Promotes Invasion of Human Mammary Ductal Carcinoma in Situ 
Jedeszko C1Victor BCPodgorski ISloane BF.

Author information

Abstract
Stromal-derived hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) acting through its specific proto-oncogene receptor c-Met has been suggested to play a paracrine role in the regulation of tumor cell migration and invasion. The transition from preinvasive ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS) to invasive breast carcinoma is marked by infiltration of stromal fibroblasts and the loss of basement membrane. We hypothesized that HGF produced by the infiltrating fibroblasts may alter proteolytic pathways in DCIS cells, and, to study this hypothesis, established three-dimensional reconstituted basement membrane overlay cocultures with two human DCIS cell lines, MCF10.DCIS and SUM102. Both cell lines formed large dysplastic structures in three-dimensional cultures that resembled DCIS in vivo and occasionally developed invasive outgrowths. In coculture with HGF-secreting mammary fibroblasts, the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths was increased. Activation of c-Met with conditioned medium from HGF-secreting fibroblasts or with recombinant HGF increased the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths, their degradation of collagen IV, and their secretion of urokinase-type plasminogen activator and its receptor. In agreement with the in vitro findings, coinjection with HGF-secreting fibroblasts increased invasiveness of MCF10.DCIS xenografts in severe combined immunodeficient mice. Our study shows that paracrine HGF/c-Met signaling between fibroblasts and preinvasive DCIS cells enhances the transition to invasive carcinomas and suggests that three-dimensional cocultures are appropriate models for testing therapeutics that target tumor microenvironment-enhanced invasiveness.



Btw, hepatocyte growth factor is not a hormone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2789178/
 Reply
#4
IGF works because it raises hormones that cause breast development. Any injection of hormones is unsafe, because that is an overload. It causes hormonal imbalances, its symptoms and is a risk for cancer. Desensitization makes it difficult for cancer therapies to work against cancer.

I wrote that Wikiversity article and a few others in that directory entirely at that time. Then an editor who was a Doctor later removed a lot, because it was too preemptive. That was a good thing, because it made me improve the information. I don't know how much it changed, in the last year because I left that whole project due to it being a toxic troll haven. Breast Nexus doesn't have those problems, which is why it's a good atmosphere. Wikiversity in itself is unreliable, unless those who write individual articles take it seriously. There were medical professionals that looked over medical articles a few years back when I left that project. Anything I brought over from Wikiversity, which I wrote, I rewrote and improved, so I didn't have to credit the hosting project, which participants were disgusting. I wrote that, anyway.

I edited breast development at Wikipedia, where I started adding about progesterone, prolactin and more specifics about estrogens on breast development. That definitely has been updated since then. I wish I never contributed to those wiki projects.

I don't know who started the hormonal breast development article, and wrote a lot on it, before I left, but I suspected that it was someone from Breastnexus. I didn't contribute to that hormonal breast development article.
 Reply
#5
(02-12-2016, 06:32 AM)Lotus Wrote: Appreciate the research surfer, i think this could be too risky as how invasive carcominas are:



Fibroblast Hepatocyte Growth Factor Promotes Invasion of Human Mammary Ductal Carcinoma in Situ 
Jedeszko C1Victor BCPodgorski ISloane BF.

Author information

Abstract
Stromal-derived hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) acting through its specific proto-oncogene receptor c-Met has been suggested to play a paracrine role in the regulation of tumor cell migration and invasion. The transition from preinvasive ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS) to invasive breast carcinoma is marked by infiltration of stromal fibroblasts and the loss of basement membrane. We hypothesized that HGF produced by the infiltrating fibroblasts may alter proteolytic pathways in DCIS cells, and, to study this hypothesis, established three-dimensional reconstituted basement membrane overlay cocultures with two human DCIS cell lines, MCF10.DCIS and SUM102. Both cell lines formed large dysplastic structures in three-dimensional cultures that resembled DCIS in vivo and occasionally developed invasive outgrowths. In coculture with HGF-secreting mammary fibroblasts, the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths was increased. Activation of c-Met with conditioned medium from HGF-secreting fibroblasts or with recombinant HGF increased the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths, their degradation of collagen IV, and their secretion of urokinase-type plasminogen activator and its receptor. In agreement with the in vitro findings, coinjection with HGF-secreting fibroblasts increased invasiveness of MCF10.DCIS xenografts in severe combined immunodeficient mice. Our study shows that paracrine HGF/c-Met signaling between fibroblasts and preinvasive DCIS cells enhances the transition to invasive carcinomas and suggests that three-dimensional cocultures are appropriate models for testing therapeutics that target tumor microenvironment-enhanced invasiveness.



Btw, hepatocyte growth factor is not a hormone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2789178/


Anything that causes cells to reproduce or breasts to grow increases risk for cancer.  Yes HGF is particularly dangerous in this respect.

Even with IGF the more I look into this the more it looks like it's somewhat dangerous, at least when injected.  Though in more proper amounts it seems quite beneficial in general, not just for the breasts.  Looking for more modest natural ways to increase IGF may be better.
 Reply
#6
(02-12-2016, 07:32 AM)surferjoe2007 Wrote:
(02-12-2016, 06:32 AM)Lotus Wrote: Appreciate the research surfer, i think this could be too risky as how invasive carcominas are:



Fibroblast Hepatocyte Growth Factor Promotes Invasion of Human Mammary Ductal Carcinoma in Situ 
Jedeszko C1Victor BCPodgorski ISloane BF.

Author information

Abstract
Stromal-derived hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) acting through its specific proto-oncogene receptor c-Met has been suggested to play a paracrine role in the regulation of tumor cell migration and invasion. The transition from preinvasive ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS) to invasive breast carcinoma is marked by infiltration of stromal fibroblasts and the loss of basement membrane. We hypothesized that HGF produced by the infiltrating fibroblasts may alter proteolytic pathways in DCIS cells, and, to study this hypothesis, established three-dimensional reconstituted basement membrane overlay cocultures with two human DCIS cell lines, MCF10.DCIS and SUM102. Both cell lines formed large dysplastic structures in three-dimensional cultures that resembled DCIS in vivo and occasionally developed invasive outgrowths. In coculture with HGF-secreting mammary fibroblasts, the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths was increased. Activation of c-Met with conditioned medium from HGF-secreting fibroblasts or with recombinant HGF increased the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths, their degradation of collagen IV, and their secretion of urokinase-type plasminogen activator and its receptor. In agreement with the in vitro findings, coinjection with HGF-secreting fibroblasts increased invasiveness of MCF10.DCIS xenografts in severe combined immunodeficient mice. Our study shows that paracrine HGF/c-Met signaling between fibroblasts and preinvasive DCIS cells enhances the transition to invasive carcinomas and suggests that three-dimensional cocultures are appropriate models for testing therapeutics that target tumor microenvironment-enhanced invasiveness.



Btw, hepatocyte growth factor is not a hormone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2789178/


Anything that causes cells to reproduce or breasts to grow increases risk for cancer.  Yes HGF is particularly dangerous in this respect.

Even with IGF the more I look into this the more it looks like it's somewhat dangerous, at least when injected.  Though in more proper amounts it seems quite beneficial in general, not just for the breasts.  Looking for more modest natural ways to increase IGF may be better.


Agreed. I do think however there's something else about nuetralizing antibodies (blocking HGF) that's worth looking into. If certain pathways are cutoff before cancerous proliferation, metastasis takes hold (from downstream pathways) it looks promising......(e.g. PI3K/Akt and MAPK axis).

I can't remember where I saw it, but,  macromastia was defined as 3% of the persons body weight, 

130lb person = 3.9lbs per breast. Anybody carrying around 5-6 pounds of boobage (per breast, or more) would know and could very well tell you the strain it puts on the person.......despite the desire for wanting GG's.
 Reply
#7
(02-12-2016, 08:04 AM)Lotus Wrote:
(02-12-2016, 07:32 AM)surferjoe2007 Wrote:
(02-12-2016, 06:32 AM)Lotus Wrote: Appreciate the research surfer, i think this could be too risky as how invasive carcominas are:



Fibroblast Hepatocyte Growth Factor Promotes Invasion of Human Mammary Ductal Carcinoma in Situ 
Jedeszko C1Victor BCPodgorski ISloane BF.

Author information

Abstract
Stromal-derived hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) acting through its specific proto-oncogene receptor c-Met has been suggested to play a paracrine role in the regulation of tumor cell migration and invasion. The transition from preinvasive ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS) to invasive breast carcinoma is marked by infiltration of stromal fibroblasts and the loss of basement membrane. We hypothesized that HGF produced by the infiltrating fibroblasts may alter proteolytic pathways in DCIS cells, and, to study this hypothesis, established three-dimensional reconstituted basement membrane overlay cocultures with two human DCIS cell lines, MCF10.DCIS and SUM102. Both cell lines formed large dysplastic structures in three-dimensional cultures that resembled DCIS in vivo and occasionally developed invasive outgrowths. In coculture with HGF-secreting mammary fibroblasts, the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths was increased. Activation of c-Met with conditioned medium from HGF-secreting fibroblasts or with recombinant HGF increased the percentage of DCIS structures with invasive outgrowths, their degradation of collagen IV, and their secretion of urokinase-type plasminogen activator and its receptor. In agreement with the in vitro findings, coinjection with HGF-secreting fibroblasts increased invasiveness of MCF10.DCIS xenografts in severe combined immunodeficient mice. Our study shows that paracrine HGF/c-Met signaling between fibroblasts and preinvasive DCIS cells enhances the transition to invasive carcinomas and suggests that three-dimensional cocultures are appropriate models for testing therapeutics that target tumor microenvironment-enhanced invasiveness.



Btw, hepatocyte growth factor is not a hormone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2789178/


Anything that causes cells to reproduce or breasts to grow increases risk for cancer.  Yes HGF is particularly dangerous in this respect.

Even with IGF the more I look into this the more it looks like it's somewhat dangerous, at least when injected.  Though in more proper amounts it seems quite beneficial in general, not just for the breasts.  Looking for more modest natural ways to increase IGF may be better.


Agreed. I do think however there's something else about nuetralizing antibodies (blocking HGF) that's worth looking into. If certain pathways are cutoff before cancerous proliferation, metastasis takes hold (from downstream pathways) it looks promising......(e.g. PI3K/Akt and MAPK axis).

I can't remember where I saw it, but,  macromastia was defined as 3% of the persons body weight, 

130lb person = 3.9lbs per breast. Anybody carrying around 5-6 pounds of boobage (per breast, or more) would know and could very well tell you the strain it puts on the person.......despite the desire for wanting GG's.


Looked at WADA's statement again and edited my post.  They lift their ban on deer antler because it has little IGF not because it has no IGF.  And they used to ban it in sports for the IGF.  So that seems to confirm there is a little IGF in velvet antler, which would be both much safer and legal to buy and use as a supplement.  Not as effective of course, but combines well with other parts of a program and unlike other substances leads to weight loss rather than weight gain.  Plus it has other benefits.  It's very nice in low amounts.

Besides very high IGF and HGF in macromastia cases, moderately higher IGF is found in women with large boobs too.  I also read about large chested women exercising their back, using good posture and so on to avoid any back pain.  Plus 32H's are only 2 pounds a boob, so even they aren't a major concern.  5-6 lbs each is 32O (or 36M, etc.):
http://kdwb.iheart.com/onair/the-dave-ry...-12418095/

I'm confused what you're getting at regarding HGF.  Is it a risk for cancer, or a way to avoid that risk?  Regardless IGF seems to be the main factor here (plus estrogen, progesterone and so on of course).  Even though it's not as great as IGF+HGF.  Plus with certain hormones the body can make HGF.
 Reply
#8
My wife had a quick noticeable gain when she was using cinnamon oil in her massage.  I don't know if that was the major factor, but reading these links and studies pin pointing to how much IGF seriously affects breast growth, it could very well have had a major contributing effect.  We've used Deer Velvet some since as well, but not localized and of much consistency.  This now makes me wonder about it as an extract and maybe even combined with DMSO.  I don't know anything much about DMSO though, other than it's ability to penetrate.  Something about this sounds scary too (not just the macromastia part lol).
 Reply
#9
(02-12-2016, 06:04 PM)peekaboobs Wrote: My wife had a quick noticeable gain when she was using cinnamon oil in her massage.  I don't know if that was the major factor, but reading these links and studies pin pointing to how much IGF seriously affects breast growth, it could very well have had a major contributing effect.  We've used Deer Velvet some since as well, but not localized and of much consistency.  This now makes me wonder about it as an extract and maybe even combined with DMSO.  I don't know anything much about DMSO though, other than it's ability to penetrate.  Something about this sounds scary too (not just the macromastia part lol).


What else was she massaging with at the time besides cinnamon?  Was it immediate swelling from the hotness of cinnamon, i.e. within minutes or hours, or was there also a lot of additional growth in the days that followed?

Yeah injecting pure IGF does sound a bit scary.  IGF is bordering on steroids, but unlike steroids, IGF is not a controlled substance.  There is the potential for major health risks, especially with an overdose.  However at a modest amount there are many health benefits to IGF: good for the muscles, bones, brains and longevity & restoration of all other cells in general too.

From what I've been reading you'd have to inject IGF to get it localized.  For deer velvet the best you can do is get it into the blood from under the tongue and then it goes everywhere.  Which means it will still affect the breasts but also muscles, bones, brain, and so on.  And IIRC it increases HGH, testosterone and so on.  It would probably be best to combine with an anti-testosterone substance for NBE.  EDIT: Oh I see.  I just read on using DMSO for localized delivery and it seems like it has been done with deer velvet before.  Interesting.
 Reply
#10
(02-12-2016, 02:54 PM)surferjoe2007 Wrote: Besides very high IGF and HGF in macromastia cases, moderately higher IGF is found in women with large boobs too.  I also read about large chested women exercising their back, using good posture and so on to avoid any back pain.  Plus 32H's are only 2 pounds a boob, so even they aren't a major concern.  5-6 lbs each is 32O (or 36M, etc.):
http://kdwb.iheart.com/onair/the-dave-ry...-12418095/


A radio station? that's what we're using for scientific information?, um ok, whatever. Even using their information (which doesn't measure extended cup size DD/DDD - GG/ HHH etc.......is as follows). If you had large breasts you'd might think twice about saying it's not a major concern, all breasts aren't (and weigh) the same. 


44
46A 44B 42C 40D 38E 36F 34G 32H 30I 28J
15.7 cm (6 in 1/6)
1,000 cc (2.1 US pt)
1.8 kg (4.0 lb)

46
48A 46B 44C 42D 40E 38F 36G 34H 32I 30J 28K
16.5 cm (6 in 1/2)
1,180 cc (2.5 US pt)
2.1 kg (4.6 lb)

48
50A 48B 46C 44D 42E 40F 38G 36H 34I 32J 30K 28L
17.4 cm (6 in 5/6)
1,370 cc (2.9 US pt)
2.5 kg (5.5 lb)


J Plast Reconstr Aesthet Surg. 2011 Feb;64(2):160-3. doi: 10.1016/j.bjps.2010.04.043. Epub 2010 Jun 8.

Redefining gigantomastia.
Dafydd H1, Roehl KR, Phillips LG, Dancey A, Peart F, Shokrollahi K.
Author information


Abstract
Gigantomastia is a rare but disabling condition characterised by excessive breast growth. Most definitions of gigantomastia refer to a particular weight of excess breast tissue. We speculate that in gigantomastia the weight of the breasts contributes significantly to the BMI, which has implications for healthcare rationing. This study aims to establish the contribution breast tissue makes to BMI in gigantomastia. In so doing, we propose a new definition of gigantomastia. Retrospective data was collected from the case notes of 68 females who underwent breast reduction or therapeutic mastectomy for gigantomastia. For the purposes of patient inclusion, gigantomastia is arbitrarily defined as excessive breast growth of over 1.5kg per breast. The difference between pre- and post-operative BMI is statistically significant (P<0.001). Mean pre-operative BMI is 38.7 with a mean specimen weight of 4506g. Mean contribution of specimen to body weight is 4.29%. There is no correlation between pre-operative body weight and the percentage contribution the breast resection specimen makes to body weight. Based on our data, we define gigantomastia as excess breast tissue that contributes 3% or more to the patient's total body weight, approximately one standard deviation below the mean. We suggest that the estimated excess breast tissue weight is taken into account when calculating pre-operative BMI in the gigantomastia population. The challenge of estimating excess breast weight pre-operatively may be met by 3D photography coupled with computer-assisted volumetry.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20965141

(02-12-2016, 02:54 PM)surferjoe2007 Wrote: I'm confused what you're getting at regarding HGF.  Is it a risk for cancer, or a way to avoid that risk?  Regardless IGF seems to be the main factor here (plus estrogen, progesterone and so on of course).  Even though it's not as great as IGF+HGF.  Plus with certain hormones the body can make HGF.


Yes, reduces cancer risk and offers a possible alternative theory for achieving results, however, it's more depth an explanation than I care to share at this point, sorry. Good luck w/the thread.
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