[NaturalLady31]

Oh dear, we definitely want to keep the hairs on our heads 
 "Busty and Hair Free" actually sounds like a commercial for a cheap beauty product (which I would totally buy!!!  ). 

Love that expression you came up with: we want results yesterday! It's so true and so many of us on here can relate. It should be on a poster. "With Busty and Hair Free, you will get your results.......yesterday". 

Hahahaha!  It does sound like a commercial! Maybe that just rolled out of my mind because sometimes my mom and I will sit around and come up with our own infomercials.. for fun.. We're low on entertainment around here, needless to say.   And you're right, I would probably be duped into buying it too, lol!  

We not only have our own club, we now have a slogan too.
"With Busty and Hair Free, you will get your results.. yesterday!"

[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[bettie32]

You should work for the media NaturalLady! 

If we start taking astaxanthin, we might turn pinkish/orange apparently. At least we'll have less unwanted hair......if I do end up taking it one day, I'll only do so for a couple of months and then take a break because it seems many sources say that it's ok to take it for 12 weeks. Thought you might like to know, NaturalLady.
I wonder why and what happens if we take it for longer periods    Will we turn into lobsters?

Found these two (disturbing?) articles regarding astaxanthin:

http://lowtestosteroneremedy.com/astaxan...-estrogen/

http://nutrientjournal.com/astaxanthin-p...l-balance/

And this is the perfect example of how there is completely conflicting info out there!
In the first link, the guy says he grew breasts (wouldn't be bad if that happened to us...)  because astaxanthin raises estrogen and in the second one, it states that astaxanthin raises testosterone (reduces DHT though) when taken with saw palmetto. I believe this is what Lotus pointed out in the thread I once started about Astaxanthin (and you commented on Hannah!) and why it seems one needs to take a pro-aromatase with astaxanthin....

[Ruby M.]

e
Hi NaturalLady,
I think you're right, incredible things can be accomplished with the right nutrition and right herbs. The key is to find the right ones, best suited to your body's requirements. 
And this ain't easy.   

Sounds like we're on a similar boat. I have the same "traits" as you. My high T is due to PCOS though. I discovered inositol several months ago (it's vitamin B8 and it lowers testosterone, LH levels, improves insulin resistance etc. etc.) as many women with PCOS take it to improve their hirsutism and lower their testosterone but I think it mainly helps control blood sugar levels which like you said is the cause for high testosterone is certain women. Well, I've been taking d-chiro-inositol for 2 months and I still haven't seen any improvement in my hairy condition lol. This is also making me wonder...maybe my high T has nothing to do with my insulin situation. Anyway, I'll give it some more time before jumping to conclusions. We can't expect miracles overnight, can we?

Yes, I also drank spearmint (to be honest, it made me nauseous after a while...two big cups every single day for months....ugh   ) as they say it's good for women with PCOS and excess androgens. The thing is - I think LovelyDinseli on the forum also pointed this out- spearmint raises LH levels. So I am totally confused. Studies point out that hirsutism seems to have lessened in those who drank spearmint but increased LH levels is definitely not good for women with PCOS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310494 
Anyway, NaturalLady, you don't have PCOS so I don't think you need to worry about this. The more you embark on this journey, the more you'll realize (you might have already) that there is so much conflicting info out there!! Researching is still very important so make sure you look at the pros and cons of everything before trying anything out. And go low dose (at least in the beginning)!

I checked out the white peony extract link. There's no indication whatsoever as to which white peony it contains. I've been trying to find bai shao tea bags/extract for ages but no luck! Is there a way for you to contact the manufacturer to ask them for more details? Does it contain bai shao (paeonia lactiflora) or bai mudan? The ladies on this forum also mention that there's a difference between the two: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.ph...hite-peony

Hi again, Bettie32.  Well at least I'm not alone in the quest for less hair and more boob, lol. I know it all sounds like stabbing in the dark, but surely we'll get there if we keep on experimenting.
Yes, I have done some research on inositol and was going to try it a while back, but I was reading such conflicting info about what it does with blood sugar levels.. I certainly don't need to lower my blood sugar right now.  I did not know that spearmint raises LH.. On my last hormone test, both my LH and FSH surges were slightly low, which I  think has to do with those other immune issues that I mentioned yesterday. But if spearmint only raises LH, would this then possibly affect the FSH more negatively.. meaning, lower it even more?? I have no clue.  Great, more things to research.
You may be on to something about your Testosterone levels, Bettie. If the inositol is helping the insulin but not the androgens,  that sort of does sound like maybe they're unrelated. But I would keep pursuing the inositol for a while like you said just to make sure.

Don't worry, I usually start new supplements/herbs very timidly because I can't stand to have a reaction to something..  I went with the shotgun approach a time or two in the past.. and regretted it.

Ok, this stuff may not be worth two hoots, but I did find this Bai Shao.
https://www.amazon.com/White-Peony-Root-...B008LX14WQ 
What's your thoughts on this?

In your first post you mentioned a thread on PM.. Do you think glandular growth is caused by phytoestrogens in general or specifically PM?

Save

Hey everyone, just a hairy girl here with her two pennies.

I have high androgens, and moderate to high test and I grow hair like a man: arms, legs, hands, feet, hand and feet knuckles, happy trail, and a few chest and chin stragglers   I had no problems with spearmint tea, but I didn't like the bloating I was getting from drinking 4 cups a day(along with water and the other teas I was drinking).  I switched to taking liquid extracts of spearmint, reishi, and white peony root.  While I am not completely hairless, the rate of growth has slowed down significantly and the hair from the waist up grows in a lot finer.

[NaturalLady31]

You should work for the media NaturalLady! 

If we start taking astaxanthin, we might turn pinkish/orange apparently. At least we'll have less unwanted hair......if I do end up taking it one day, I'll only do so for a couple of months and then take a break because it seems many sources say that it's ok to take it for 12 weeks. Thought you might like to know, NaturalLady.
I wonder why and what happens if we take it for longer periods    Will we turn into lobsters?

Found these two (disturbing?) articles regarding astaxanthin:

http://lowtestosteroneremedy.com/astaxan...-estrogen/

http://nutrientjournal.com/astaxanthin-p...l-balance/

And this is the perfect example of how there is completely conflicting info out there!
In the first link, the guy says he grew breasts (wouldn't be bad if that happened to us...)  because astaxanthin raises estrogen and in the second one, it states that astaxanthin raises testosterone (reduces DHT though) when taken with saw palmetto. I believe this is what Lotus pointed out in the thread I once started about Astaxanthin (and you commented on Hannah!) and why it seems one needs to take a pro-aromatase with astaxanthin....

I would last all of 10 minutes in the media industry. They wouldn't dig my corny quips at all, lol.

Actually, I wouldn't mind being slightly pinker.. I'm just plain white as sheet right now. Haven't figured out how to get a tan without either baking in the sun, getting sprayed down like a car in a body shop, or slathering on paraben-filled sunless tanner. (sigh)   This beauty thing is complicated.    I know what you mean about conflicting info.. You read one positive article and then the very next thing you google up says it will kill you or cause you irreversible bodily harm, lol! Aghhh!  I tend to reach a saturation point and if what I'm researching sounds really good for my needs, I will cautiously try it despite minor negative feedback that I've read.. Heck, there's probably some bogus article floating around online about Mother Theresa being a pick-pocket if we looked hard enough for it. My point is that I think you have to go with your gut intuition sometimes. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that astaxanthin would work as we want it to for the most part (I'm thinking though that adding an aromatase to it would be a good idea too, in my opinion).

Thanks for shooting the info this way, Bettie! Keep it coming when you find something pertinent.


[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[NaturalLady31]

e
Hi NaturalLady,
I think you're right, incredible things can be accomplished with the right nutrition and right herbs. The key is to find the right ones, best suited to your body's requirements. 
And this ain't easy.   

Sounds like we're on a similar boat. I have the same "traits" as you. My high T is due to PCOS though. I discovered inositol several months ago (it's vitamin B8 and it lowers testosterone, LH levels, improves insulin resistance etc. etc.) as many women with PCOS take it to improve their hirsutism and lower their testosterone but I think it mainly helps control blood sugar levels which like you said is the cause for high testosterone is certain women. Well, I've been taking d-chiro-inositol for 2 months and I still haven't seen any improvement in my hairy condition lol. This is also making me wonder...maybe my high T has nothing to do with my insulin situation. Anyway, I'll give it some more time before jumping to conclusions. We can't expect miracles overnight, can we?

Yes, I also drank spearmint (to be honest, it made me nauseous after a while...two big cups every single day for months....ugh   ) as they say it's good for women with PCOS and excess androgens. The thing is - I think LovelyDinseli on the forum also pointed this out- spearmint raises LH levels. So I am totally confused. Studies point out that hirsutism seems to have lessened in those who drank spearmint but increased LH levels is definitely not good for women with PCOS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310494 
Anyway, NaturalLady, you don't have PCOS so I don't think you need to worry about this. The more you embark on this journey, the more you'll realize (you might have already) that there is so much conflicting info out there!! Researching is still very important so make sure you look at the pros and cons of everything before trying anything out. And go low dose (at least in the beginning)!

I checked out the white peony extract link. There's no indication whatsoever as to which white peony it contains. I've been trying to find bai shao tea bags/extract for ages but no luck! Is there a way for you to contact the manufacturer to ask them for more details? Does it contain bai shao (paeonia lactiflora) or bai mudan? The ladies on this forum also mention that there's a difference between the two: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.ph...hite-peony

Hi again, Bettie32.  Well at least I'm not alone in the quest for less hair and more boob, lol. I know it all sounds like stabbing in the dark, but surely we'll get there if we keep on experimenting.
Yes, I have done some research on inositol and was going to try it a while back, but I was reading such conflicting info about what it does with blood sugar levels.. I certainly don't need to lower my blood sugar right now.  I did not know that spearmint raises LH.. On my last hormone test, both my LH and FSH surges were slightly low, which I  think has to do with those other immune issues that I mentioned yesterday. But if spearmint only raises LH, would this then possibly affect the FSH more negatively.. meaning, lower it even more?? I have no clue.  Great, more things to research.
You may be on to something about your Testosterone levels, Bettie. If the inositol is helping the insulin but not the androgens,  that sort of does sound like maybe they're unrelated. But I would keep pursuing the inositol for a while like you said just to make sure.

Don't worry, I usually start new supplements/herbs very timidly because I can't stand to have a reaction to something..  I went with the shotgun approach a time or two in the past.. and regretted it.

Ok, this stuff may not be worth two hoots, but I did find this Bai Shao.
https://www.amazon.com/White-Peony-Root-...B008LX14WQ 
What's your thoughts on this?

In your first post you mentioned a thread on PM.. Do you think glandular growth is caused by phytoestrogens in general or specifically PM?

Save

Hey everyone, just a hairy girl here with her two pennies.

I have high androgens, and moderate to high test and I grow hair like a man: arms, legs, hands, feet, hand and feet knuckles, happy trail, and a few chest and chin stragglers   I had no problems with spearmint tea, but I didn't like the bloating I was getting from drinking 4 cups a day(along with water and the other teas I was drinking).  I switched to taking liquid extracts of spearmint, reishi, and white peony root.  While I am not completely hairless, the rate of growth has slowed down significantly and the hair from the waist up grows in a lot finer.

Thanks for posting your two pennies, Ruby M!    Wow, it sounds like you've hit a winning combination! I've heard good things about reishi regarding androgens. I love taking liquid extracts when I can because they seem to work better. Please tell us where you get your extracts.. Post some links to them if you can!

[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[Ruby M.]

e
Hi NaturalLady,
I think you're right, incredible things can be accomplished with the right nutrition and right herbs. The key is to find the right ones, best suited to your body's requirements. 
And this ain't easy.   

Sounds like we're on a similar boat. I have the same "traits" as you. My high T is due to PCOS though. I discovered inositol several months ago (it's vitamin B8 and it lowers testosterone, LH levels, improves insulin resistance etc. etc.) as many women with PCOS take it to improve their hirsutism and lower their testosterone but I think it mainly helps control blood sugar levels which like you said is the cause for high testosterone is certain women. Well, I've been taking d-chiro-inositol for 2 months and I still haven't seen any improvement in my hairy condition lol. This is also making me wonder...maybe my high T has nothing to do with my insulin situation. Anyway, I'll give it some more time before jumping to conclusions. We can't expect miracles overnight, can we?

Yes, I also drank spearmint (to be honest, it made me nauseous after a while...two big cups every single day for months....ugh   ) as they say it's good for women with PCOS and excess androgens. The thing is - I think LovelyDinseli on the forum also pointed this out- spearmint raises LH levels. So I am totally confused. Studies point out that hirsutism seems to have lessened in those who drank spearmint but increased LH levels is definitely not good for women with PCOS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310494 
Anyway, NaturalLady, you don't have PCOS so I don't think you need to worry about this. The more you embark on this journey, the more you'll realize (you might have already) that there is so much conflicting info out there!! Researching is still very important so make sure you look at the pros and cons of everything before trying anything out. And go low dose (at least in the beginning)!

I checked out the white peony extract link. There's no indication whatsoever as to which white peony it contains. I've been trying to find bai shao tea bags/extract for ages but no luck! Is there a way for you to contact the manufacturer to ask them for more details? Does it contain bai shao (paeonia lactiflora) or bai mudan? The ladies on this forum also mention that there's a difference between the two: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.ph...hite-peony

Hi again, Bettie32.  Well at least I'm not alone in the quest for less hair and more boob, lol. I know it all sounds like stabbing in the dark, but surely we'll get there if we keep on experimenting.
Yes, I have done some research on inositol and was going to try it a while back, but I was reading such conflicting info about what it does with blood sugar levels.. I certainly don't need to lower my blood sugar right now.  I did not know that spearmint raises LH.. On my last hormone test, both my LH and FSH surges were slightly low, which I  think has to do with those other immune issues that I mentioned yesterday. But if spearmint only raises LH, would this then possibly affect the FSH more negatively.. meaning, lower it even more?? I have no clue.  Great, more things to research.
You may be on to something about your Testosterone levels, Bettie. If the inositol is helping the insulin but not the androgens,  that sort of does sound like maybe they're unrelated. But I would keep pursuing the inositol for a while like you said just to make sure.

Don't worry, I usually start new supplements/herbs very timidly because I can't stand to have a reaction to something..  I went with the shotgun approach a time or two in the past.. and regretted it.

Ok, this stuff may not be worth two hoots, but I did find this Bai Shao.
https://www.amazon.com/White-Peony-Root-...B008LX14WQ 
What's your thoughts on this?

In your first post you mentioned a thread on PM.. Do you think glandular growth is caused by phytoestrogens in general or specifically PM?

Save

Hey everyone, just a hairy girl here with her two pennies.

I have high androgens, and moderate to high test and I grow hair like a man: arms, legs, hands, feet, hand and feet knuckles, happy trail, and a few chest and chin stragglers   I had no problems with spearmint tea, but I didn't like the bloating I was getting from drinking 4 cups a day(along with water and the other teas I was drinking).  I switched to taking liquid extracts of spearmint, reishi, and white peony root.  While I am not completely hairless, the rate of growth has slowed down significantly and the hair from the waist up grows in a lot finer.

Thanks for posting your two pennies, Ruby M!    Wow, it sounds like you've hit a winning combination! I've heard good things about reishi regarding androgens. I love taking liquid extracts when I can because they seem to work better. Please tell us where you get your extracts.. Post some links to them if you can!

Save

Absolutely!

I get my spearmint, white peony root, and reishi from http://www.goldenlotusherbs.com/

spearmint: http://www.goldenlotusherbs.com/index.php?pageid=2&itemid=238

white peony root: http://www.goldenlotusherbs.com/index.php?pageid=2&itemid=725

reishi: http://www.goldenlotusherbs.com/index.php?pageid=2&itemid=868

Another place I used to get my reishi extract from was iherb, when i was drinking spearmint tea before I found out about goldenlotusherbs.  I didn't have any issues with it except that it only comes in one size and I had to buy multiple bottles.

[bettie32]

I would last all of 10 minutes in the media industry. They wouldn't dig my corny quips at all, lol.

Actually, I wouldn't mind being slightly pinker..  I'm just plain white as sheet right now. Haven't figured out how to get a tan without either baking in the sun, getting sprayed down like a car in a body shop, or slathering on paraben-filled sunless tanner. (sigh)   This beauty thing is complicated.    I know what you mean about conflicting info.. You read one positive article and then the very next thing you google up says it will kill you or cause you irreversible bodily harm, lol! Aghhh!  I tend to reach a saturation point and if what I'm researching sounds really good for my needs, I will cautiously try it despite minor negative feedback that I've read.. Heck, there's probably some bogus article floating around online about Mother Theresa being a pick-pocket if we looked hard enough for it.   My point is that I think you have to go with your gut intuition sometimes. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that astaxanthin would work as we want it to for the most part (I'm thinking though that adding an aromatase to it would be a good idea too, in my opinion).

Thanks for shooting the info this way, Bettie! Keep it coming when you find something pertinent.


Save

Oh the media doesn't appreciate real talent! 

If you want to look more colorful, I highly recommend sea buckthorn oil!! It's full of omega 3, 6, 7, 9 (11, 14, 29...just kiddin') and vitamin A, C and E. It has plenty of great properties (and I have a feeling for NBE too....will keep u updated). Anything with beta carotene should help you become more pink/orange. I'm tanning very easily and nicely since taking SBO. Really, you should look it up as I think it's one of those underrated plants/fruits. I love it so far (hopefully I won't wake up tomorrow in hives or something).

 Sooo funny! You really hit the nail on the head!  Just the other day I read a magazine article about how chocolate is evil (though I don't take those kind of statements to heart...) and today I read an online article about how chocolate is the key to a long life (it was referring to pure, dark chocolate of course minus sugar/milk/other junk but you get my point). So yes, you do have to go with your gut (my gut says "chocolate forever"). Seriously, we have to take everything we read/hear with a grain of salt (whether it's positive or negative...). 

Yes, I would also like to know where you get your extracts RubyM (edit: just saw the links. Great!) . With that powerful trio, I doubt a single hair will survive 
 Be careful though ladies with reishi as it could lower blood pressure and thin the blood especially in the long run. Apparently you get very...vivid dreams with reishi.

[BillyBoy_Delano]

Hi I did grow using herbs, massage, binural meditation, hypnosis, cupping and vacuum pumping.  I went from flat to a 44B and increased my areola by an additional 2 inches. I even have a C cup bra now 40C.

[hannah]

You should work for the media NaturalLady! 

If we start taking astaxanthin, we might turn pinkish/orange apparently. At least we'll have less unwanted hair......if I do end up taking it one day, I'll only do so for a couple of months and then take a break because it seems many sources say that it's ok to take it for 12 weeks. Thought you might like to know, NaturalLady.
I wonder why and what happens if we take it for longer periods    Will we turn into lobsters?

Found these two (disturbing?) articles regarding astaxanthin:

http://lowtestosteroneremedy.com/astaxan...-estrogen/

http://nutrientjournal.com/astaxanthin-p...l-balance/

And this is the perfect example of how there is completely conflicting info out there!
In the first link, the guy says he grew breasts (wouldn't be bad if that happened to us...)  because astaxanthin raises estrogen and in the second one, it states that astaxanthin raises testosterone (reduces DHT though) when taken with saw palmetto. I believe this is what Lotus pointed out in the thread I once started about Astaxanthin (and you commented on Hannah!) and why it seems one needs to take a pro-aromatase with astaxanthin....

I read this and I am sorry but i have a way different conclusion from this and other research..astaxanthin lowers dht..thats it. Dont take aromatase with it..its counterproductive and you could end up with way too much estrogen and too low testosterone in comparison. .it will also shock your system too much..you could end up hypothyroid..just take supplements in balance..i think in your case first htake care of your testosteron..wigh either an a.a or aromatase..when your body is used to thatyou could add P and E. Best woulc bd hormone testing its possible..

[Ruby M.]

I would last all of 10 minutes in the media industry. They wouldn't dig my corny quips at all, lol.

Actually, I wouldn't mind being slightly pinker..  I'm just plain white as sheet right now. Haven't figured out how to get a tan without either baking in the sun, getting sprayed down like a car in a body shop, or slathering on paraben-filled sunless tanner. (sigh)   This beauty thing is complicated.    I know what you mean about conflicting info.. You read one positive article and then the very next thing you google up says it will kill you or cause you irreversible bodily harm, lol! Aghhh!  I tend to reach a saturation point and if what I'm researching sounds really good for my needs, I will cautiously try it despite minor negative feedback that I've read.. Heck, there's probably some bogus article floating around online about Mother Theresa being a pick-pocket if we looked hard enough for it.   My point is that I think you have to go with your gut intuition sometimes. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that astaxanthin would work as we want it to for the most part (I'm thinking though that adding an aromatase to it would be a good idea too, in my opinion).

Thanks for shooting the info this way, Bettie! Keep it coming when you find something pertinent.


Save

Oh the media doesn't appreciate real talent! 

If you want to look more colorful, I highly recommend sea buckthorn oil!! It's full of omega 3, 6, 7, 9 (11, 14, 29...just kiddin') and vitamin A, C and E. It has plenty of great properties (and I have a feeling for NBE too....will keep u updated). Anything with beta carotene should help you become more pink/orange. I'm tanning very easily and nicely since taking SBO. Really, you should look it up as I think it's one of those underrated plants/fruits. I love it so far (hopefully I won't wake up tomorrow in hives or something).

 Sooo funny! You really hit the nail on the head!  Just the other day I read a magazine article about how chocolate is evil (though I don't take those kind of statements to heart...) and today I read an online article about how chocolate is the key to a long life (it was referring to pure, dark chocolate of course minus sugar/milk/other junk but you get my point). So yes, you do have to go with your gut (my gut says "chocolate forever"). Seriously, we have to take everything we read/hear with a grain of salt (whether it's positive or negative...). 

Yes, I would also like to know where you get your extracts RubyM (edit: just saw the links. Great!) . With that powerful trio, I doubt a single hair will survive 
 Be careful though ladies with reishi as it could lower blood pressure and thin the blood especially in the long run. Apparently you get very...vivid dreams with reishi.

Hmm, I never knew that about dreams and reishi.  I have always been a dreamer, but I can definitely agree about the vividness, borderline lucidness.  I was attributing it to the maca, but since I've thought about it the dreams I remembered on maca were always sex-based    but since the reishi, they are more "normal" dreams.

I can't wait to get some SBO, I had a sample of it and loved how it made my skin feel.  I'm waiting until I use up my current body cream before I buy anything else.  Bettie32, you got me anxious!