[Lotus]

Yayyy, Lotus! I was hoping you'd shed some light! Big Grin Thank you so much!
I'd personally prefer the thread's name and location to be changed since this pertains to nearly all aspects of NBE, but if it's too much trouble and you feel it's fine here then that's okay.

Hi kittykat, ok I'll take of it.


 

So back on topic, does this mean we shouldn't take oral forms of estrogen at all if we can get topical alternatives?
 

We need the liver to activate the CYP P450 enzyme system (which account for about 3/4 of drug metabolism). However, transdermal application accounts for 60% absorption, but....oral delivery effectiveness is only 15 to 20%. So, from my experience utilizing 3 methods (including sublingual) work together.

General averages of rates/ratios when consuming herbs

Q-How long does a capsule take to dissolve?

A-Typically the average is up to 20 minutes, some sources have at 5-10 minutes while others say 20-30 minutes. Extracts 1 to 4 minutes

Q-What are typical absorption results?

A-For skin application- 60%

A-Liquid- 98%

A-capsule- 10-20%

Q-What is the capsule to extract ratio?

A-20 to 1, meaning it would take 20 capsules to = 1 teaspoon of extract


Q-When is the best time to take an herb?

A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach

 

 What if we can't get those alternatives, would it still be worth taking oral estrogen if it ultimately inhibits growth?

Lots of things inhibits growth, like low blood glucose, diabetes, drug interaction, digestion issues, pH balance is off, unsafe products... etc, etc. On top of that, some people lack certain genes to code enzymes to be metabolized properly. But ultimately I think one has to reset the body's immune system when taking on NBE, and what I mean by that is detoxifying the whole body, not just the liver, (fasting is my preferred method for a reset).

 

Also, this may be a jump in logic, but since oral testosterone has the opposite effect on IGF-1 (?)

For the most part true, however T injections have the most impact over supplements (which also carry the biggest risk).


 

would that mean taking oral forms of anti-DHT and testosterone have a similar effect on the liver as estrogen?

do mean taking anti-androgens (too inhibit DHT) while taking testosterone?.... taking this approach I think ultimately boost aromatase.

 

Or I guess not since they indirectly affect estrogen outside the liver, huh?

You also have to consider what brain signaling has to do with the pituitary gland and GH, and this gets equally complicated as the brain (even the hypothalamus) has estrogen receptors, as do target tissues, (even the bones). As the body has about a trillion cells, a estrogen receptor (as an example) has hundreds of thousands receptor sites....however, not all go through (or make it to synthesize for transcription...aka DNA). So you can see there's lots of things that stand in the way to breast growth.

Check out this site below.... (and the other link I provided on citicholine). I do think we can overcome oral E inhibiting IGF-1.
 http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/20...ly/Page-01

The bottom line is trying to balance all the essential parts for breast growth, which means all the hormones (including GH), including diet and some form of exercise helps w/growing breasts. Avoid stress as best one can (stress trigges cortisol which can derail growth much like DHT does).



L.