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No tingles/pain. Should I ramp up now?

#1
Question 

So I've been trying NBE for several years now. My current program has been underway since October. I took fenugreek, wild yam and fennel once before and my cycle got thrown off (it skipped 2 months), although I didn't take such high amounts. Because of that I decided to take Fenugreek, Saw Palmetto, Dong Quai (to help regulate my menstrual cycle) and massage with fennel. I had no problems with that for a while, but then I skipped my period in January. I decided not to purchase another bottle of Dong Quai pills because clearly it didn't work for me. So I've been taking 2 Fenugreek(610mg) in the day and at night, and 2 Saw Palmetto(540mg) in the day and night. That equals up to 2440 FG and 2160 SP daily. Then I massage wit the fennel and add heat. I am starting to see results, slowly but surely.

I have 2 questions:
1. Should I ramp up because I am beginning to have results but not feeling any tingling or pains? If so, what should I ramp up to?

2. Is something faulty in my program causing me to skip my cycle (I haven't had a period since early December)...?

I'm hoping to get any insight, anything would be helpful

~Lyn
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#2

I havent heard of anyone growing with just those herbs, sawpalmetto is popular but there aren't any reports of growth with it. And yes i would reccomend that you increase the amounts.

as for your period have you gotten a pregnancy test????


hope all is well for you.
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#3

Try these posts. They are from the mens forum on the old site, but may be revalent. Don't forget to go back to the original post so you can understand the thread.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/547753/me...i+Twink%21

http://www.network54.com/Forum/547753/me...lations%21

http://www.network54.com/Forum/547753/me...a+break%21

This link will take you to the old forums general forum. The search page the link will take you to is full of threads. I believe on topic.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/search?searchterm=+tingles&sort=match

Best wishes

andy
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#4

Fenugreek caused me to skip my period for about two months. I took it as a blessing haha
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#5

Thank you all for the responses.

I highly doubt pregnancy as an option.

I never really read the men's stuff, but I guess I should take a look and see what information they have to offer.

And I really don't like getting my period, I'm relieved when I skip a month, but I start worrying when I skip two. I wonder why it hasn't come. I took wild yam out of my routine and was fine for a while so I figured that threw me off, but maybe it was the fenugreek all along. If I change my routine, what would I use as a substitute for fenugreek that would give the same effect and has the same strength?

~Lyn
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#6

This is a post from the old site, mens section. That is where I started on the old board and am more famillar with its contents. Jori, I believe has a program page here on the new forum.

andy

Hey Hems,

This is jori. I am 25 year old woman. I'd like to say it is a pleasure to speak with you and to say

Alright, I am going to give you a rundown of herbs and products that might help you or give you
some options.

Ok...

#1 - Fenugreek (or Fennel seeds) with Saw Palmetto -
Most scientific reports have showed fenugreek does not cause breasts growth, though a number of girls on this site, Yahoo Answers, and a few other odd internet forums have said other wise. It actually does provide growth for some women, which is understandable, since it is a
Galactogogue , a substance that promotes milk supply and flow and oftens interrupts/blocks/disrupts the dopamine system. Dopamine is also a prolactin inhibitor.
As we all know if the prolactin levels in the body are increasing...you know that special area of your chest just might also see some increases, as well. . Fenugreek Can be applied topically or taken by capsule or liquid. The best results are probably topical applications
or liquid taken by mouth. Those methods absorb in to the body better than capsules. Lastly, Fenugreek is also a emmenagogue, which is a substance that either promote menstrual flow (or do the opposite andend or terminate a pregnancy) and are sometimes oxytocic.
Most usually help infertile women become pregnant. How would this work in man's body?
An herb would basically be telling your body that it is pregnant (when it is really not).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmenagogue

Popular ones are: (Black or Blue) Cohosh, Cotton Seed,
Angelica (one of them is named Dong Quai - pronounced Gong Quai).

What's the point of saw palmetto? It generally prevents atrophy (sagging, reduction-basically shrinking) in the breasts and is often given credit to inhibiting and blocking androgen production. Though, it can be troublesome trade-off for younger women (and sometimes men), because it can cause impotency (but generally not), increase cellulite (reduction androgens/muscle tissue), and etc.

I've posted two responses in other threads concerning the combination of saw pal and fenugreek.

Other Galac to go gues: Alfalfa, anise, astragalus, basil, blessed thistle, boza, burdock , brewer's yeast, caraway, celery root and seed, chickpea, dill, fennel (above), Iceland moss, kudzu [which is pueraria], lettuce, lemon balm, marjoram, marshmallow (althae) plant,
milk thistle (cleans liver), nutsedge, okra, pea, purslane, sesame, soapwort, sponge gourd, spirulina, stinging nettle, raspberry leaf, verbena, and vervain

*Bolded: denotes more popular herbs.

Sidenote: Kava, should've been added for being helpful to breast growth, but it is not a galactagogue. Though, it is a dopamine inhibitor, probably more so than everything above and
similar substances to it is known to cause mammoplasia, as it is frequently used in NBE products.

Galactogogues also usually work better with other substances or methods, that I will list below.
And, you can substitute them, if by chance you are allergic to any of them.

#2 - The alleged feminizing herbs

It is controversial to say whether these herbs can cause alot of changes in male's body or a female body dominated by androgens. But, I've done alot of research over the last few months and found that there are herbs out there capable of disrupting testosterone production,
DHT conversions (which triggers prostate cancer), and androgens.

Research, mostly points to Peony and Licorice together has shown to substantially limit testosterone in a short period of time with small dosages.

Peppermint and spearmint tea can limit androgens and possibly slow facial hair growth.

Hops (capsules and pellets), if taken or eaten in large doses, 3,000 mg to 10,000 mg a day has shown to feminize the body (shrink testes, loss of facial/body hair,and fat redistribution).
Red Clover is a little bit weaker, but it does contain large number of isoflavones, like genistein and daidzein. So does Kudzu and another popular substance known as Pueraria Mirifica (White Kwao Krua). Mainly, because the properties of these herbs are seriously mimicking estrogen, like emmenagogue (listed above). Lastly, Red Clover is often used with
Saw Palmetto and Fenugreek to improve results.

Wild Yam is mostly great, not because it can create estrogen, testosterone, or progesterone (which can only be done in laboratory). But, since it is a reputable vasodilator, which can create more blood flow into certain blood vessels by widen them. It's doesn't necessarily create breast growth, but it can aid in it through applicable creams or lotions (though aided by other herbs or massages).

#3 - Glandular/Protomorphogen Products and supplements -
The most popular seem to be Bountiful Breast, Ultra Breast, and Transfemme.
Along with other bovine (ovine or porcine) grandular Mainly,
because they contain bovine ovary as the primary source, usually 150 mg to 600 mg per pill.
Bovine Ovary seems to be the most popular, but the others are pretty much just as effective especially, if they are lypholize (freeze-dried). It works on the concept that "like heals like." Mammal tissue heals other mammal tissues. But, it is kind of going off topic.

It's been for all intents and purposes the most popular method as far as supplements and herbs are concerned, at least on this board. Though, it doesn't work everyone (like some herbs do).
Still, it probably works the fastest (seen and heard results ranging from a couple of days to 3 months). Maximum results are probably expected for usage period of 6 to 9 months. Also, another problem with bovine ovary, especially if a man is using it is the problem of impotence and
potentially feminizing the body.

Though, you can look at Cheryl's picture pages as a golden achievement on the board for everyone taking NBE products, who started as a very small size (as most men do) and now has breasts that would make even porno stars jealous.
Also, not to leave some of other girls out, alot of them are seeing results after finding the right combination of herbs and methods. I believe Cheryl only took BO, saw palmetto, and noggleberry (a pump, I will mention latter).




#4 - Pueraria Mirifica

It is arguably to best to some, 2nd best to most of the others, while a few believe it is an ineffective product. It is somewhat more potent than the other phytoestrogens, even in small doses. Mainly, since its cellular structure is similar to estradiol, which is a type of estrogen cell. It is a miracle herb to some people, or a miracle scam to others. One company even got in trouble for trying to market it as a breast enhancement herb. Don't know what to say about this one, except read the Pueraria Mirifica section. Also, I would probably try the cream or lotions (like Fenugreek), if you can find them over actual caps, since you already have fairly good size breast. The creams or topical solutions when rubbed on the skin will specifically be absorbed into the area of the application.

#5 - Massaging, pumping, suction and nipple stimulation

One of the most underrated method of NBE is the physical application to your breast.

Massaging is pretty simple. You can use any type of routine you want, it doesn't have to be any thing specific just as long as it is done consistently and judiciously.

Pumping is probably the most popular, because the results are much faster.
Popular ones on this site, include Noggleberry and Brava. There's ones that are on Ebay, like Pink Dual (Hidden Flower), Duel Exerciser Pump (y2women), or the generic ones that are most Adult novelty stores.


If you breast (and areolas) grow, and your nipples don't really change or if you simply want to increase the size of your nipples (I think they are more erotic than the breasts themselves are sometimes). You can either use nipple pumps from Adult novelty stores or simply use a snake bite kit. Any type will do, whether it is the simple two inch suction or the extractor (which looks like an injector, but has a suction at the bottom).
After a few uses, it is said to increase the size of your nipples.

Lastly, nipple stimulation is probably one of the best methods to increase oxytocin (women and even men). Which can create more sensual (massages), because it reduces anxiety and stress, while trigger more sensitive reactions and blood flow to your breast.

#6 - Alternative methods, like magnotherapy or hypnosis

Not sure about these methods, because of the psychological aspect to it. And, those are much too unpredictable given varying temperaments.

#7 - What to buy?

Red Clover, Saw Palmetto, and Fenugreek (as cream, liquid, tea, or lotion) is a good starting point for BE. Still, it depends on the individual...

You can substitute things out, if you are allergic to something.

Or, you can be creative and use your own intuition and research to see which herbs might work really well together, if you think something else might work better for your body than the ones above. As you can use your own combination of galactogogues and/or emmenagogues Since,
they are varying results among the NBE users or men and women in general, and even in research.
For instance, I took a high dosage of hops, only to not have it effect to much on my body.

If the products above in the glandular section, like Bountiful Breast are too expensive or inaccessible. You can try these products:
Natural Sources (Raw Female); Solaray (Female Caps, which contains bovine ovary, uterus, mammary, and a number of pytoestrogen
and/or androgen inhibitors); Ultra Glandular (Ovary); Ultra Raw; FemGlan; Ovary Plus; and few other glandular type products that are not overly priced.


Remember, the massages and/or pumping... you can do the massages with or without oil and lotions.
But, the certain creams will enhance the effects, though by helping to widen the blood vessels.

You already have an A cup, I don't think it will be hard for you to achieve an extra cup or so...
I believe that you can reach your destination by the late Feb to late March, if you start some time this month (even towards the end).

Niplette from Avent

There are several anti-androgenic herbs: Humulus (hops), Urtica Dioca (Nettles), Trigonella Foenum- Graecum (fenugreek), (Foeniculum Vulgare) fenneland green tea.

It's a pleasure to speak with guys and girls, again.

Other good products are anything that contains isoflavonnes (usually soy, genistein, daidzein, daidzin, or phytoestrogen complex products, usually from Solaray or Solgar).

Again try to buy the extracts, because they are more potent.

You can also try Zoft gum.

I guess the most effective herbs have been: Pueraria Mirifica, Fennel Seeds, Soya, Licorice(sometimes with Peony)/Saw Palmetto, Red Clover, Fenugreek (rage of the forums), Hops, Fo Ti, Blessed Thistle, Goat's Rue (galaga), cumin, alfafa, vervain, and kelp



I've used a few of these, because my androgen levels are super high.

Black/Blue Cohosh, Dong Quai, Goldenseal, Cottonseal, Pennyroyal, and few other recognizable herbs.
http://www.sisterzeus.com/Emmeno.htm
http://www.pfaf.org/database/search_use....mmenagogue

Again, it makes the body think that is fertile or ready for pregnancy. THe emmena-type herbs aren't necessarily estrogenic, but they do mimic the behaviors of estrogen when it is too little or inhibit it when it is too much.

Evening Primrose and Borage Oil can help give you clearer skin and put more weight on your face (if you have dark circles or bony features).

The glandulars are usually better with a good amount of protein, you can either drink power (whey) shakes or eat with a high protein meal, before or after your daily dosage.

If you decide to use pueraria mirifica, the two most popular (potent and cheapest) brands are PM Phytogen (from Solgar) and Ainterol. Ainterol seems like a scam product, like the rest, but it is actually pretty well-reviewed. You can get from Ainterol's website for as low as $9.99 for 100 caps and sometimes they have specials running (500 mg a capsule). Solgar's PM Phytogen is usually the brand found in health stores or health grocery shops, it's $22.00 for 60 capsules, though unlike most pueraria mirifica products (esp. on the internet)...it actually has verified and guaranteed percentage of extract...which is 80 mg per capsule. That's alot and some forums have said, it can be really powerful substance, regardless if it is Ainterol or PM Phytogen.

There's Breast Active and Breast Success.
http://www.breastsuccess.tv/whyitworks.html
http://www.breastactives.com/ingredients.php

The creams are probably better to use and buy for faster results, more cost efficient. If you decided to buy the herb capsules, I would take a long at the ingredients and see how much it would cost in bulk from your local health stores and see if it is reasonable price (with heavier dosages) vs. the internet companies selling NBE. Apparently, most of them aren't using acutal extracts.

Amazon.com (buyers' reviews), Yahoo Answers, Black Hair media forum, bodieslikeours.org, and other breast enhancement forums usually have personal reviews on all of the products. So, you can get a good gauge of what you might can use. It also includes sites with Women dealing with PCOS, high androgen levels, low estrogen (usually in post menopause), transgendered, women and bigger butts, or etc.

You might also have to give up some of the junk food (not all of it), but products that have caffeine in them have to go (temporarily). Because, they do hurt results. Carbonated drinks are ok, though (as long as they are caffeine free).
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#7

Thanks Andy, that was a very good read, full of a lot great info & insight.

~Lyn
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