[Nessa]

ok i wasn´t goin to reply cos seriously this Thread is getting anoyed, but in behalf of Religion, im goin to.DO NOT ridiculize what i believe in, cos them Wahaika would be right about you being prejudiced, and just because YOU don´t see miracles everyday doesn´t mean that they don´t exist, i´vee seen them, and i have experienced them, there are countless and countless of storys of people that have had encounters with God, but only because you don´t have Jesus in your life doesn´t mean he doesn´t exist, and only because you don´t Comprehend what is on the bible, doesn´t mean is a lie, if you read the bible you would see a lot of the predictions had already come true, and im not being a fanatic cos i know that feith without love is fanatism, and fanatism was probably what happened at your old church,im just asking you to RESPECT my believes, like your asking Wahaika to respect yours, and religion has nothing to do with it, cos one of the 10 laws(idk if that´s how you translate them) says love your neighbor as yourself(idk how to translate that either), and even though is true that in the bible says that homosexual won´t go into heaven, doesn´t mean we have the right to judge them, cos the only one that can do that is god.So please in the future, don´t make coments of a religious nature, cos this would lead to another post.

P.S:didn´t want to offend anyone, but that comment offended me.

[Anastasia916]

He brought religion into this. And I'm not against Christian people, I'm against those that are hypocrites, who push their religion on others, and bring religion into matters where it does NOT belong. My adoptive mother is Christian and she does not judge me. So not all of them are like him.

And yes I've seen miracles, but not like parting an ocean, or a virgin woman giving birth. Someone who was a vegetable is now walking and talking, that's a miracle, but because of his own strength and will power. I think it's great you believe in what you believe in as long as you love and respect others beliefs as well. I don't believe in what you believe in, but I will not push my beliefs onto you.

I also agree that some of the predictions have come true, but the bible is flawed in my eyes, and that's my opinion. It was written in ancient times after all. Hope I didn't offend you hun, I didn't mean to, it's only the type like him that make my blood boil!

[Wahaika]

It is not my intention to argue, but I did see a need to try and explain where I am coming from. When I wrote for people to not waste their time replying, it didn't apply to you. I really meant to get that in there but somehow missed it.

You are so wrong about me. It is amazing. However, I will withold all further comments and observations so that we can end this and you will have the last word, as it were, by my not responding to those last two posts. I'll stop here if you will.

[Hazel]

I was going to post a long discussion, but this stopped me,

Some of my basic beliefs and thoughts. If you want to know how my mind ticks, this is it.
1. Every question has a correct factual answer(s), all others are incorrect answers.
On Grey area - we may not always know what the correct answer is, but it exists. We just need to discover it. Identifying the unknown is the first step, not the end result.
2. Where two or more things conflict, at least one is incorrect/wrong/false, possibly all.
3. In the context of good vs. evil, right and wrong exist and are constant, not variable. Right and wrong in this context are ultimately defined by God, not people. (Don’t want to start Bible thumping here, just presenting reality,)
4. In the context of human relations, if one person presents an argument or statement that they have proven as fact to themselves, it is perfectly acceptable to talk about it as fact to others whether or not others have proven/disproven the point.

I can't argue with that. When someone's thinking is this flawed, there is nothing to do but agree to disagree. It makes me cringe inside, but there are all kinds of people in this world. Anyone who doesn't understand what I'm talking about (undoubtedly Wahaika), I hope you will understand sometime in your life. By reading the last point, you can tell that no matter what anyone says, he will not change his mind and he will continue to repeat the same things. I think we can all leave it here, like Wahaika said.

[Bibi]

As for the question I supposedly evaded: no of course not. I wouldn´t disregard anyone´s opinion that is based on his/her religion. BUT it would be only that, an opinion and NOT a fact. Because religion is something you choose to believe in, not an established reality.
And as you may know, the international medical community established decades ago that homosexuality and bisexuality is NOT a psychological flaw or disease, it is just one of the possible variables sexuality can take. So that is fact, not someone´s opinion about it.

Don´t get me wrong, I have friends who are catholics, protestants, jews, atheists. And I respects all their rites and customs and beliefs. But they know their faith is a personal matter - they never try to impose it on others and I´ve never heard anyone of them judge others for not sharing their lifestyle and morals. It hurts me to see that there are still people around who think they can judge others according to their own, personal standards. (Btw, at present all my catholic friends have only expressed deep shame at the scandals their church has been involved in.)

All this has nothing to do with Sodom and Gomorrah, Wahaika. It´s clear that you have never been in contact with people with a different lifestyle, say homosexuals. If you had been, you´d know that they can be just as stable and monogamous and boring as anyone else. They can be excellent parents and teachers, very faithful partners and friends. I was lucky to grow up knowing all kinds of people - as I said, people with different religions, different sexual preferences, nationalities, etc. Fortunately my parents were and are open minded, though they must be much older than you are.

And I insist, all your prejudices are only based on fear and probably on ignorance too - I can see how someone who is afraid of others who are different from him will never get to know them.

(As for me having a lot to say when I was not going to reply anymore, well, the thread took on another road that seemed interesting enough so that´s why I changed my mind.)

Nessa: I´m very sorry if any of these subjects offend you, they are not aimed at your religion or beliefs but at the PEOPLE who take advantage of them to attack others.

[crystalelle]

I have been reading the other thread Majestic started and this one. I have been restraining myself for making any comments because I thought that maybe it is enough of different opinions and arguments being laid out by different people, mine can be set aside. But I just have to cause now I find all this arguments and different beliefs are going to break this community apart, especially with all those seniors (Anastasia, Cheryl, Nessa and etc) and experience people (Wahaika). What will be the chain of reaction after this? I certainly hope this won't end up with existing experience people leaving the forum (because they don't feel welcome) having newcomers following advise of less experience people or irresponsible people like Majestic.

Every time Majestic pulls out a thread similar like this it cause a chain of unpleasant arguments and commotion, stir up these peaceful and friendly community making everyone seems so unfriendly. She probably call herself Majestic because she is trying to be the 'High and Mighty'.

Being a Christian myself I understand Wahaika point where in the bible God creates man and woman only and not anything that's in between. Whether I agree or disagree whether man should have breasts it don't matter. This is because I am seeing things in the view of science instead. For the rest like Anastasia, Hazel, Bibi and etc I respect you guys for your protectiveness and your beliefs.

Let's go back to our main objective of being here please. We are all here to grow our breasts and also to assist, cheer on and help each other.

I would like to share a quote that I read today. I just hope I won't get blasted off because writing in this thread is like trying to write in the middle of a shooting.

Apologizing doesn't mean that you are right and others are wrong. It only means you value relationships much more than personal ego.

[kerensa]

Well i cant believe people are still posting replies on this thread (says me who is putting one now lol) as all you are doing is fuelling the flames Wahaika feeds off of and it seems to me that this person is the kind who if you were to say today was Tuesday, they would argue its Friday.

Speaking as one of those perverted people with sick fantasies Majestic hates, i would like to know how many of us blokes, (after reading what she thinks about us) feel like catching a train.....right in front of our faces, come on put ya hands up!! one, two, three......none!!! I have been a "freak" "perve" transgendered, androgen, she he, he she, call me what ya want, (cos all names bounce off me like trying to destroy a tank with water) for as long as i can remember, but not only that but EVERYONE knows what i am and what i want, including my wife who i have been married to for 8 years, my parents and even the neighbours down my street where i live, mind you did have a problem with one of them, as during an arguement with one of them over something that nothing to do with my gender, one of them reffered to me as a "Faggot" so i calmly walked out into the middle of the road and shouted out as loud as i could "im a transvestite, i wear womens clothes" well that was a show stopper and you could of heard a pin drop, but the moral of that story is, im not ashamed of what i am, although yes i would loved to of been born "normal" but i didnt choose to feel the way i do, but im not gonna hide away like Majestic or Wahaika feel i should AND NEITHER SHOULD ANY OTHER MALES ON THIS SITE, after all we are all after the same thing reguardless of what gender we are.

I have just taken stock of my first batch of PM and along with the many pros and cons of this item, i have read that prolonged use may result in taking on female characteristics, which might mean i leave my house one day with the intention of going to watch the football, but end up going girly shopping.....i cant wait!!

[Amaven]

First of all, I AM a newbie, I've been searching these boards for a month or so now, just signed up, this is not a fake account. I do have something to say though I am not adding anything to the content of this thread other than to say to Cheryl1989 that I was VERY impressed with you and your response. It's clear that the person(s) it was directed toward had no clear, valid or intelligent rebuttal after your series of very potent points. I think you got to the root of it and can see and understand the bigger picture for what it really is. Life is too short, what is the harm when it's not harming anyone, all said with a cool demeanor and magnanimity of a person who is comfortable with yourself and who they are. Good for you Cheryl.

Back in my activist years I'd really get worked up while talking to people who's excuse for ignoring reason was their religion. Every once in a while I'd have a person come up to me and tell me what I said made sense, or they got my point and it gave them food for thought, or it inspired a shift in their perspective. Well then I'd say, if I get through to at least one person then it would all be worth it. Well I want to say that if you felt you were getting nowhere with your contribution, I just want to say you did. Though I've always been liberal when it comes to gender issues, I've had trouble not letting other people get me too worked up over it, and that's what I like most about your post.

Awesome

I'm glad that you weren't completely passive and spoke up, because that is what the world needs. Speaking up does not show a lack of tolerance, it means you have something you believe in. Really, it's all in HOW you say it that makes the difference. And how you said your peace inspired me to have a cooler, more controlled demeanor when responding to these types. That is a sign of alot of patience- although any compassionate human being can understand why people who single out others for unfair treatment can be so aggravating



P.S. I'm a person of academia, and I can tell you for sure, that even though someone cites a bunch of resources and uses alot of words, they can still be saying a whole lot of nothing, with not much of a point. I'm glad most of you saw through that.

Good day Gals

[laisegirl]

First I have to say PLEASE lets get back to what this forumis about? Again like was said "let's agree to disagree" and move on.

Crystalelle...awesome quote girl!!!!!!

I do have to chime in on something that Anastasia916 said(sorry girl you know I respect your thoughts, opinions and advice) but i have to ask....you wrote:

"STDs were invented by the government in an attempt to exterminate them" meaning gays....

ok Really? C'mon, thats a little far fetched and something out of sci-fi isn't it???? I am not denying POSSIBLY some scientist somewhere invented the disease as some experiment...but the GOVERNMENT to exterminate gays????

Ok having said that..this is something you beleive and I will not step on your beliefs...so i do apologize if i have offended you or made you angry I just had to bring it up...no one else had....so maybe it's my own faith in human nature that is flawed and people really are still that cruel....maybe I am ignorant to think no one in this wonderful country(America) of ours could do something so Hitler like. Maybe I refuse to believe it because i firmly beleive in the good of all..not the evil....

ok again sorry if i offended you girl, that wa not my intention.....

[Anastasia916]

Nope, not offended at all, I am around very patriotic people all the time. But I do know our government is flawed, it's not perfect, I know alot of the things they do but I know alot of people don't want to hear them, don't believe in them, or don't want to accept them, and that's fine... we all have our opinions! And that's what the founders of this country would have wanted, us to speak our opinions freely. But unfortunately I think things have really changed since then, but I won't get into it LOL.

I'm a US Navy wife, and trust me the military screws over their own everyday, I see it all the time. Hell, I live it. So don't let them pull wool over your eyes, don't take everything they say as the exact truth. I think as humans we have a long way to go before this country or world is as perfect as they make it seem.