11-05-2012, 10:50 AM
(10-05-2012, 08:10 PM)Isabelle Wrote: I was really surprised by the high weight loss of hops upon drying, so I double checked it, and it's true:
http://sroc.cfans.umn.edu/People/Faculty.../index.htm
Well, for me, that's a big surprise, after almost a year on this forum
It doesn't make a difference in the comparison with other programs that use dried hops, like Eve M's, or my old formula. But it does make a difference for Karen's extract - she might as well drink the whole bottle - and for prof. Denis de Keukeleire's work. I wrote about his dose here:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=41147#pid41147
I compared it with hops pellets, and I don't know what the water content of those is. But if they contain as much water as the fresh hops, the dose in de Keukeleire's cosupplementation study is only 60 mg dried hops, or 50 times lower than mine. Even if the pellets are dry, it's still 5 times lower.
I wrote previously that they may have overdosed the soy 20 times. But now it turns out that their soy dose could have been about right, and their hops dose way low. The upside is that I can take more soy without stalling, and that the dose in my first flax experiment, 30 g, was not a stalling dose either.
Never too old to learn. I mean, really learn. I should never have used a guess number for the evaporation weight loss without checking
Isabelle,
The approx 4:1 weight ratio of fresh vs dried is almost the same difference as the "listed" potency of an Extract made from fresh herbs vs dried herbs ... and since when they say an extract is 1:1 it means the weights of the Herb in mg vs the volume of the extract in mL it really fits right into their potency comparison which is 1000 vs 250 (4 times) The key here is whether an extract is made from Fresh Herbs or Dried Herbs ... from what I have read so far it is preferred to make an extract from Dried Herbs ...
Getting back to my original question ... lets says they use dried herbs ....
in case one they let the dried herbs sit in the extract for an hour .... in case two they let the dried herbs sit in the extract for 2 months .... the published ratios of 1:1 will still be the same BUT it would seem that the potency would be vastly different.
What I am also seeing is that anyone using extracts should look for what is called a "standardized extract" ... that is one that is "always measured and compared" to ensure consistency ... BTW ... I haven't found any "standardized Hops extract yet"
Bottom line I don't think it's as bad as you thought (about hops anyway) AS LONG as the extract is made from Dried Hops AND used the 1:1 ratio .... BUT I still wonder about "how strong" the extract actually is .... I tend to NOT BELIEVE product labels ... ESPECIALLY in a market that is as UNCONTROLLED and MONITORED as Herbs ... your idea of "getting your herbs as clsoe to the product as you can" FOR CERTAIN HAS MERIT .... then arises the question "HOW BAD DO YOU WANT IT" and "HOW MUCH WORK ARE YOU WILLING TO DO FOR IT" ..... probably why most people say "screw it" and go with PM .... BUT there sure isn't much info about exactly what's in that stuff or studies about it's long term effect ....
Karen