[melissa4u]

Hi.
So I am on BO now.
I took the Dr. Lee test to see my hormone levels and it shows that I have
excess estrogen and progesterone defeciency.
My breasts were always small, but I never had puffy areolas. After I got pregnant, my areolas got puffy and my breasts got, maybe half a cup bigger, but they were not round like most pregnant ladies are. They just became saggy. Even during breastfeeding, I was a little fuller, but again, saggy breasts, not round, even when I was filled with milk.

I told Isabelle about this, she suspected that I probably had low progesterone. I think she might be right. Ginie also said that some doctors recommend PC for pregnant woman, so it is safe. I wish I had known about this when I was pregnant!

So I was thinking to start using Progesterone Cream only during luteal phase, for maybe about 6 months. Don't know if this is a good idea or not since I am on BO.
Does anyone know if its okay?

[Isabelle]

Hi Melissa,

The first thing I would do is check my diet. Maybe you are getting progesterone blockers without knowing it. Wahaika mentioned damiana and oregano. Oregano is the pizza herb. Is your local pizzeria very generous with it? Maybe Wahaika knows more dietary progesterone blockers.

Then I would try fennel tea. A normal dose is two cups, but I went up to eight in an experiment at the end of my previous ramp up. If that gives you a swell, you know you're on the right track. Not 100% though, because fennel also ups prolactin. FG also ups progesterone and prolactin. I think you have enough prolactin though, since you breastfed.

Besides Ginie, Mel (itsjust4fun91) knows a lot about PC and BO too. She wrote this in Ginie's program thread when Ginie was about to start PC:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7251&pid=25841#pid25841

[melissa4u]

Hi Isabelle!
Thank you so much for your reply.
I dont know if its my diet, i will try to convince my doctor to have me get tested.
I really think I am deficient in progesterone.
I would try the Fennel or FG, but I am on BO and I have read that they dont mix. I know NBE is all trial and error, but i just dont want to overload my hormones and messing up my cycle. I think I will try the PC and see for myself.
I did breastfeed my baby for a few months but It was really hard for me to get milk, i was also taking fenugreek capsules and the doctor prescribed something that increased my milk, but I just couldnt keep up with my baby, its as if my milk was not making her full or something, I became too tired and started giving her the bottle.
I really want to "fix" my breasts for my self confidence and so that when I have another baby, i will be able to successfully breastfeed.
I really had no clue about hormonal imbalance until I found this forum, so I am very grateful for that!

Hopefully itsjust4fun91 will chime in with her information and others as well. I really love hearing others' opinions.

[Isabelle]

Hi again Melissa,

Sorry to read about your baby. We had it too with my elder daughter. My ex and her sister were reading their mother's pregnancy diaries. It turned out all three had enough milk, but it wasn't nutritious enough. Maybe ask your mom?

[melissa4u]

My mom didn't breastfeed us, she was a working mom.
So I don't think she would know.
My sister has had kids and breastfed all of them with no problem. So I guess it was just me!

I think I will order the PC sometime in the next 2 weeks, its the Kokoro Balance cream
http://www.kokorohealth.com/cgi-bin/datacgi/database.cgi?file=koko&report=sp&ID=006

[Wahaika]

melissa4u,

Low milk supply at the time of breastfeeding is not a sign of low progesterone now. If you were low in anything my first target would be to address prolactin. During your pregnancy your progesterone production goes up by a factor of 10. The only way to know if it was low then is to be tested. That you conceived and carried to term is a pretty good indicator that progesterone level was not a problem. If you are not experiencing things related to thin lining or midcycle bleeding then I would say that is a pretty good indicator that you are not currently low in progesterone. If your cycles are regular and everything is going well, progesterone is probably just fine.

Progesterone cream is not one of those things to "just try." If you don't need it but take it anyway it could really mess you up. I have seen this over and over and over.

Just out of curiosity, what leads you to believe that you have a progesterone deficiency?

Aside from what you have already said, what lead you to believe that your milk supply was low?

Here are some helpful educational sites:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html
http://www.lowmilksupply.org/
http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/supply.html
http://lactinv.com/breastfeeding_qna.php...ilk_supply
http://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-lms.aspx
http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/nursi...upply.html
http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/lo...upply.html

Wahaika

[melissa4u]

Hi Wahaika.
Thank you so much for your reply.
The reason why I think I was deficient in progesterone is when I got pregnant, my areolas got puffy, they weren't like that before pregnancy. They became sore, and a little bigger, but then they did not round out like alot of pregnant women's breasts become. My breasts grew maybe half a cup size. They were saggy. I did try to tell my doctor about this when I was about 5 months pregnant, she assured me that breasts became all different shapes and size during pregnancy. I tried to show her my breasts, she just told me, there is no need, that pregnancy does lots of things to the breasts. I was a little offended because she didnt want to help, but I shrugged it off.
I had my baby 3 days past my due date, so I did carry her full term.
My baby wanted to breastfeed every 10-15 minutes, no kidding!, It was as if my milk was not making her full. So I took Fenugreek pills, which helped slightly. The doctor prescribed something for me to increase my milk, which helped alot, but again, she wanted to breasteed every 10-15 minutes so I didn't have enough milk. I used to do the breastpump to see how much milk I had, in 10 minutes, I would get 1.5-2 ounces from each breast. Eventually, I just got tired and gave her the bottle. It was one of most stressful times of my life.

I definitley think I had a problem.
My sister and friends who have breastfed all had round breasts during pregnancy and during breastfeeding. They all did not have trouble with their milk supply. Thank you for putting up the links, I will check them out.

If you think I was not low on progesterone, than what do you think was my problem?

[Wahaika]

Hi melissa4u

As for the physiological changes that you have in question, your doctor should have examined you instead of shrugging it off.

You wrote in another post that you have tubular breasts. Many women with tubular breasts report the same problem when it comes to breastfeeding. Those with severe cases do not tend to do well with NBE, but maybe what works for them has not yet been discovered. I remember that someone on the old board had tubular breasts and she found something that worked for her. I don't remember who it was. There may be some women on this board who have the same battle. I am pretty sure that Anastasia had a mild case. It might be good to get together with them and see what has commonly worked for them. Whatever worked for them should be able to work for others but the conditions have to be the same.

Whatever the internals are, there should be a massive emphasis on topicals and other considerations such as thyroid support and growth hormone. I have never attempted to solve that problem but am willing to help in any way that I can. But the place to start is definitly with women (real women, BTW) who have had success with cases of tubular breasts.

Wahaika

[melissa4u]

Hi Wahaika.
Yes, Anastasia had a mild case of tubular breasts. I read her posts, she says that BO and NB helped her. She was actually my inspiration to start BO and NB. Right now, I have been on BO for 1 month and I have pumped everday, 2-3 hours a day, for 2 weeks so far. I have noticed that my breasts are a little lifted.



In your opinion, do you think BO will work for me, with my condition of tubular breasts?
During puberty, I became anorexic for almost a year, so I think it has a lot to do with my breasts not growing or developing properly.
Do you have any suggestions on how to get my areolas less puffy?
To give you an idea, my areolas are puffy and sort of sag down, the only way to see my underboob is if I lift my areola.

[Anastasia916]

Yep, I had a mild case of tubular breasts. I was like you. Before pregnancy I was I believe a 32B, I was wearing the wrong bra sizes for years cause I thought I was a 34 band. But thinking back when I would get measured for dresses and such I think I was a 32B. During pregnancy and breastfeeding I went to a 34C. Like you my nipples USE TO BE small not puffy looking areolas, etc. During pregnancy they became bigger and the areolas became puffy looking. Then the breasts started looking triangular almost. Not so bad while pregnant and breastfeeding from what I remember, but got worse as I dried up and such.

I breastfed for 3 months. It was a constant battle. The first month I kept up with him okay but he was starting to become underweight. Like you I was prescribed things to increase milk production, shown how to do massages on the breasts for it, and I started pumping between feedings. I even started mixing baby cereal into my breastmilk after it was pumped and fed it to my baby for him to gain weight. On the 2nd month I couldn't take seeing my son not be at a normal weight for his age and size, so I started supplementing with formula (and this is why I think formula is bad for babies...). After I started that, he developed acid reflux and couldn't keep the formula down. But when he fed from me he was fine, I just didn't produce enough and it was getting smaller and smaller amounts I could produce. After he was 3 months I completely dried up and there wasn't a thing I could do. They put him on many different types of formulas and he couldn't keep any of them down. Even the one made for his condition, I think it was called Lipil AR. Well I eventually ended up taking him to a dr that finally helped, he believed in doing things outside of the box and not the norm to other dr's. And found a very simple fix. My son was able to keep food down and started gaining weight rapidly after a week.

Anyways, back to breasts. After breastfeeding I dried up to a saggy puffy nippled 32AA, sad I know. That is why I got into NBE. The first thing to work for me was Zoft gum, I talk about this in my picture program page. I got to a 32B with that, but they still looked tubular, I even massaged daily during this. The sagging I somewhat fix back then with the easy curves workout thing. Then I searched these forums and started NB, I put the improvement on my shape down to NB and BO, hands down. I recommend massaging before you pump with NB, and make sure you do what you are suppose to do while on BO, meaning plenty of water daily, plenty of protein, regulating your temp, etc. And now I'm a 32D 1/2 lol I'm in between sizes. But in my opinion looking in the mirror now... my nipples are still bigger than before pregnancy of course, but they aren't "puffy" anymore. My breasts are more round instead of triangular. They of course are not perfectly round but I think as close as I will get, and I'm fine with that. I'm proud of their shape now.

So that's my experience and how pregnancy/breastfeeding was for me.

Out of curiousity, Melissa, did you leak ALOT during pregnancy? Like a ton of lactation? And did you leak like a faucet between breastfeedings? I did, I would go through a TON of breast pads. I would put tiny cups in my bra to try to catch the milk so I didn't waste it.