[shortcake]

Changes to program:
I've decided that I'm going to start taking my UB only twice a day - once in the morning (late morning) and once at night, just like BB recommends and girlfriday (and others) have done. I'll do it kind of a an experiment to see if I feel more or notice any sort of difference. I will report back tonight.

I'm only going to take 400mcg of folic acid, probably once every other day, due to the fact that it's given me headaches and upset stomach (crampy, feels like I have to go to the bathroom type of feeling) when I take the full dose daily. It also made me very sleepy! I remember my B-Complex doing that, too.

Going to go buy some Vitamin C supplements today. Not sure how much I should take to optimize the MSM and collagen, and to aid with NBE in general?

Progress:
I hardly felt anything going on yesterday aside from some slight tingling. So about a 2/10. I did skip my morning protein shake because I'd run out of milk. By the time I bought some, it was nearly bedtime and I didn't feel like forcing my body to process all that right before going to sleep. So I only drank half of one with all my supplements. Other than that, I didn't do anything differently. Not even a hint of soreness whatsoever for the past few days.

I developed another small pimple on my chin that went away very quickly. The first one I got is still there, which is strange. It hasn't gotten any worse but it's not going away, or even starting to. Typically by now it would be. But while that's not "normal" for me, I would rather have these three smaller pimples pop up instead of the ginormous, painful one I'd sometimes get in the past that would take 2 weeks to go away and leave discoloration after.

[shortcake]

Ran out of collagen yesterday (only took 1) and will buy more tomorrow. I think I will up that from taking 3 per day, to taking 6. Lots of ladies have said they noticed a big increase in aches and pains when they did that.

Bought some Vitamin C with Rose Hips (I hope that's okay to use) and have started out taking 1 tablet (1000mg) after each MSM I take, so that's a total of 3000mg per day. I don't know if that's considered a lot just for NBE (or maybe not enough?) but my immune system could use the boost anyway, especially at this time of year.

Yesterday I went to one of the department stores here to check out a sale they were having. I figured I might as well try on some bras just to see what I could fit into and what I couldn't. It was fairly depressing. I tried an unpadded, molded cup 32A that I had gaps in the cups with. But then I tried a 32B of the Maidenform bra that's supposed to be knock-off of the VS Miraculous bra (adds 2 cup sizes) and I actually fit into that one better than the 32As of the Target knock-off I have now. So that made me feel slightly better. I suppose it doesn't really matter. I know I haven't had any drastic increases in size or fullness so I wasn't trying them on expecting any miracles!

I've realized just how much "fullness" counts with overall breast size. When I was taking BCPs and was spilling out of my bras in the second half of my cycle, I was still only measuring 30" across my bust but was very full and more firm. Now I'm measuring between 30 1/4" and 30 1/2" (it's fluctuating now) yet I feel like I'm smaller than I've ever been. Wider, but flatter, if that makes sense. I just keep telling myself my breasts are just in the reshaping stage and eventually I will experience outward growth.

I did something kind of naughty yesterday and ordered a bottle of Swanson's BO in case I do decide to add 1 capsule in. I know it's kind of early to be doing that since I've only been on WU for one cycle, but I'm concerned about the fact that my growing signs seem to nearly completely disappear the closer I get to my period, which is the opposite of what should be happening. It seems that everyone else's signs dramatically increase at that time but mine are just gone. The last 3 or 4 days I've been feeling about a 2/10, compared to the solid 7/10 (at least) I felt in the earlier parts of my cycle. And no soreness at all. I can't figure it out!

So far today I'd say I'm at about a 2/10. Yesterday I would give a 0.5/10.

[shortcake]

Okay, so maybe updating daily isn't going to be very realistic for me to actually do.

I've been feeling more going on in the evening/nighttime over the last few days. I don't think I've felt anything today, but I haven't drank my protein shake yet either. I've noticed that makes a huge difference. For that reason, I'm considering drinking two shakes per day instead of just one.

As for the Vitamin C, I did a Google search yesterday to see how much is too much to take each day. Apparently the daily recommended dosage for an adult woman is only 75mg. And I was taking 3000mg. Holy wow. If I take 6 of my collagen tabs per day, that nearly gives me the 75mg alone. Here's what I found:

"For adults, the recommended upper limit for vitamin C is 2,000 milligrams (mg) a day. Although too much dietary vitamin C is unlikely to be harmful, megadoses of vitamin C supplements may cause:
Diarrhea
Nausea
Vomiting
Heartburn
Abdominal cramps
Headache
Insomnia
Kidney stones"
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-c/AN01801

And this:
"However, it is possible to overdose on vitamin C. The chronic toxic dose (meaning how much you have to take over a period of time to see negative effects) is more than 2 grams a day. The acute toxic dose is not known. Deaths from vitamin C overdose are very rare, and there may be none recorded.

The possible negative effects of taking too much vitamin C are:
- diarrhea,
- nausea,
- possible dental decalcification (i.e., softening of the teeth),
- increased estrogen levels,
- renal colic (i.e., kidney stones)"
http://askville.amazon.com/vitamin-day/A...Id=1424950

Headaches, increased estrogen levels, and kidney stones? Noooo, thank you. I definitely don't need any excess estrogen, and the occurence of kidney stones on my dad's side of the family is very predominant. I haven't had any (yet... my sister was in her mid 30s when she first developed them) and I definitely don't want any. And after the third day that I took the 3000mg of VitC I had a horrible headache all day. Fortunately that was also the day I found that information so I had stopped taking it. By the next day the headache was completely gone.

Thursday and Friday I had some slight soreness but once again, by today (Saturday) it's gone. It's so strange that I seem to be following that pattern! The pimple on my chin seems to be getting a little worse (more sore and red) each day. I'm hoping that when my period starts it will finally begin to dissolve.

AF is due tomorrow. It will be interesting to see whether or not it's on schedule.

[shortcake]

AF came today. It was due yesterday, if I was to return to my normal 28 day schedule, but it started really early this morning so it's really not all that late. My last cycle after coming off of WU was 34 or 35 days long, so this is great. I've also noticed a definite decrease in cramping (so far). I will start taking pituitary this cycle, but am waiting until my nighttime doses to take the first one. I would like to have done it this morning so I could keep track of any effects from it, but today is my first day of jury duty and I was afraid it might cause some ill effects (i.e. bathroom issues) and didn't want to have to try to deal with that in a court room! hehe.

Speaking of jury duty, naturally I was selected for the trial that begins today. So now I'm missing my son's Halloween party and parade at school. But at least the trial should be over by the end of tomorrow.

Really fast, before I have to get back to court (yippee), here are my measurements:

Above: 30 1/4" (same)
Across: 30 1/2" (+1/4")
Under: 26" (-.5)

And since this is one full month on BO:
Waist: 22.5"
Hips: 32.5"
Weight: (will fill this in later, don't have time to get undressed and weigh myself right now)

I think that my waist and hip measurements are a little lower right now because I haven't eaten much at all today because of jury duty. I always notice a pretty dramatic change in measurements just from not eating much for one day. It's weird. Fast metabolism, I guess. I'll do those measurements again tonight to see if they're any different.

I'm going to measure again on day 5 of my cycle to see if I'm still at 30 1/2" across. Since this is only the first day of my period, I'm sure that could still go away. If I am, that means I've gained a total of 1/2" since about... early July when I first started pumping again. I gained 1/4" from that and hypnosis. Then took bcps, which of course the effects from that disappeared when I stopped taking them. Then took WU with no effect. Now it seems I've gained 1/4" from my first month of UB.

[shortcake]

First I'll correct my last measurements:

Waist: 22 3/4"
Hips: 32 3/4"
Weight: 88 lbs

I'm now on day 3 of my period. I said in my last update that it seemed as though I wasn't really getting any cramping, but that did kick in later. It was no worse than usual though and it only lasted the first day. Usually I have cramps the first 2-3 days but I will gladly take just one day instead! Also my period seems to be lighter which is great! Mine have always been really heavy the first 2-3 days.

My pimple is finally starting to go away, after me having to "pop" it twice. I'm really not too happy about that. It's nice that it didn't get as big and painful as the others I've had in the past, but it lasted much longer than most smaller pimples I get. It just didn't want to seem to go away. I'm going to give it one more cycle to see what happens with my next period and if I get more of them I guess I'll have to add in SP.

Breasts are still looking the same as they did before my period and fitting into my bras the same as well. So that's nice! Although it's not like I had any major swelling or size difference before my period either... So there's not much to lose. Still though, I'll take any gain I can get.

I've been tweaking my program quite a bit and trying to experiment with different things. I've decided I'm going to add in one Swanson's BO capsule (250mg) a day for this cycle starting today. Since I haven't had any negative effects from the BO at this point (aside from the breakouts) I don't see how a mere 250mg extra could throw me into any hormone dominance. It's more of an experiment to see if I notice any difference in how I feel. I admit I've been pretty bad at following my program lately and eating healthy due to jury duty (I only ate one meal on Monday, missed both massages and pumping, ate better yesterday but only did one massage and short pumping session, missed protein shakes for three days) but I'm just not really feeling anything going on.

So! (deep breath) This is my program now:

Morning
1 Kelp immediately after I wake up
Around 9:00 -
1 UB
1 Pituitary
1 MSM
1 Collagen
Protein Shake

Afternoon
1 UB
1 Pituitary
1 MSM
1 Collagen

Night
1 UB
1 Pituitary
1 MSM
1 Collagen

And of course applying heat, followed by massage, followed by 30-60 minutes (longer when possible) of pumping twice a day.

I'm really hoping I can just leave it at that for a while! All the changes I've made are confusing me.

[shortcake]

Yesterday afternoon after I took my first Swanson's BO along with my UB, I had a crazy increase in tingles, aches, and pains. I was so surprised! I went from feeling practically nothing over the previous 5 days, to being at a solid 7/10 after taking it. What's interesting about this is that I've taken 2 UB at the same time, which equals more BO than the UB + one Swanson's capsule I took, and never had that happen. I also experienced some slight stomach cramping at the same time I was feeling everything going on which is another thing I've never experienced with UB. This has to make me wonder if maybe Swanson's BO is a lot stronger than UB's? Initially I was considering trying BB if UB doesn't work for me but now I'm actually thinking of just trying Swanson's alone! I'd have to take lots more pills every day, but Swanson's capsules are literally half the size of UB's, so I could easily swallow two at a time. Not a big deal. And it would only be slightly more expensive. (About $15 more per month, after shipping.)

[shortcake]

I'm cutting out the pituitary and extra BO capsule today. For the past couple days my stomach has been... what's the word... gurgley? and slightly bloated, and I've had the "bathroom issues" I was worried about getting before. I'll stop taking both for now until I start feeling back to normal and then I will add the pituitary back in and see how I feel. Trying to figure out which one is causing it. I know I experienced some cramping after I took the first Swanson's BO on Wednesday but I had the bathroom problem for the first time Wednesday morning, before I had even taken the BO and was only on the pituitary at that time. There's a small chance it could be a stomach bug as that's kind of going around right now, but it seems more likely it's one of the supplements. It's odd how UB never caused any stomach problems for me, yet Swanson's doesn't seem to agree with me.

I've been feeling a little discouraged the last couple days. I'm concerned about the acne issue and I'm afraid of having to take an anti-androgen because I don't seem to react well to them. I'm considering starting up SP now because I don't want to deal with the breakouts again before my next period (if that even keeps it under control). My pimple just does not seem to want to completely go away and it's annoying the heck out of me. I've been keeping my face clean and putting my usual topical pimple gel on it but it doesn't seem to be helping. Even one of the larger, more painful ones I get would normally be gone by now.

I'm also a little worried that I don't seem to be feeling as much this cycle. I thought it would only get stronger this month but so far it doesn't seem as promising as my last cycle. I'm definitely going to keep going on it; I'm just feeling a little down.

The good news is that I'm still measuring 30 1/2" across my bust so it seems that I'm going to keep the 1/4" increase. So that's something to be happy about!

ETA: I'm feeling even more discouraged now. My period doesn't seem to want to stop. I keep thinking it's over but then it starts back up again. Also, the pimple on my chin filled up again today and I've had to pop it yet again. It's like my hormones are continually feeding it and it's just not going to go away. If the whole acne thing doesn't improve or gets worse I may have to give up BO. I just don't think I'm willing to deal with constant acne in an effort to gain boobs. (Although I'm sure if I was getting amazing, fast results I'd be thinking differently! ) I'm going to add Flaxseed Oil back in since it's something that Wahaika recommends to keep acne at bay with herbal programs. Not sure if it will have the same effect with BO but it's worth a try. Looking back on my program, I stopped taking FSO a few days before the pimple appeared so maybe there's a connection there. I'll give that a few days if there's no change, I'll add SP.

[TibetanPrincess]

Hi shortcake,

I was reading your post. I know what its like to get discourage because of the access androgens and estrogen causing acne.

Good call that you are doing flax. I find it mops up extra hormones. I noticed I get far less acne now. I wanted to let you know, not all adrogens are the same. I found SP to be harsh on me while Pygeum Bark was mild and doesn't have a bad taste. I did good with Peony root as well for anti adrogen treatment.

Also, keep in mind that when taking any glandular, it will always vary in the way that it affects you. The hormones in the ovaries are never the same potency/ratio everytime. In other words, there may be an abundance of estrogen versus progesterone (or vise versa), a fairly good and balanced amount of all hormones, or a lot less in both hormones, which is why some found it ineffective to take or in your case, sensitive to the sudden change.

Hopefully, its just a bug. But it sounds like it could possibly be an over abundance of yeast(from the BO as hormones tend to spark this kind of activity in the body).
So its advisable to take a form probiotics like yogurt or anything that is fermented to keep a healthy amount of the friendly bacteria in your gut.
Don't get discourage.

Feel better

[shortcake]

tibetan113,

Thank you so much for your reply. Yesterday I was feeling extremely discouraged but after reading your post I felt a lot better. This NBE thing can be so frustrating and discouraging on its own, but when it seems like you're constantly battling negative side-effects, it becomes so much harder. Lately I've hardly even been focusing on my breasts (although maybe that's a good thing...) because I've been so stressed about the acne. I've been taking 2000mg of Flaxseed Oil (plan on increasing it to 3000mg starting tomorrow) and 900mg of SP and it could be coincidence but today the breakouts are looking a lot better. There's still a large red bump but it feels more like it's just inflammation and irritated tissue that will start to go down. It doesn't feel hard, like it's full. So that's a positive sign! Thank you for listing the anti-androgens that worked well for you, too. Now I have a couple other options if SP doesn't work out for me!

Regarding my stomach issue, my son actually got sick with the flu on Saturday but he has a high fever and body aches and pains, whereas I didn't have that at all. Just the "stomach issues." I really feel mine was due to the pituitary and extra BO. I'm not going to resume taking either, and will take you advice and start with probiotics. It makes sense!

I also wanted to say that I've been following your program and progress, and have learned a lot from what you've posted! I am so thrilled for you! Where you're at right now is literally my end goal. We have really similar measurements (aside from the bust part of course!) so looking at your pictures gives me a good idea of what I'd like to look like when I'm finished with NBE. It's a great motivator! Thanks again for all your help.
______________________________________________

Updates:

The acne situation seems to be getting a little better. I'm going to continue taking FSO and SP throughout my cycle to see if it helps prevent PMS breakouts next time. Right now though, my goal is just to get rid of what I already have.

My period officially ended on Friday night, which made a 5 day cycle. That's actually really good for me. I was concerned with the stop/start bleeding but what Isabelle said about the Pituitary really made sense, and I think that since I quit taking it, my period finally stopped. The bad news is that the next day I came down with a horrible headache. It totally wiped me out. Not only did my head hurt like hell, but I just felt so out of it... Overwhelmingly tired and lethargic, and I had very foggy thinking. I ended up having to take a Vicodin to get rid of the pain. This is exactly what would happen to me before with herbs and is an obvious sign of excess hormones. So that was also very disappointing and discouraging.

I've been trying to come up with a plan of action but also trying to force myself to stick with what I'm doing and give it a fair chance. I've added in the FSO and SP, and am thinking of adding PC as well. The only problem is, I'm not sure if my problem is excess estrogen or progesterone. I have to lean more toward estrogen, given the fact that I've dealt with it before.

I've considered stopping UB and only taking the generic to see if maybe that wouldn't have the same effect. I've also considered trying BB, but I just can't afford it right now. I think my next step after BO, if it continues to give me problems, may be to try PM again but in a VERY low dose, and add PC in the second half of my cycle (and cycle the PM, of course). I'm just really trying to continue to think positive at this point.

I've actually been feeling a somewhat decent amount of action in my breasts lately, but nothing super exciting. No soreness either. I noticed an increase in tingling after adding SP. Also, instead of taking my 1 UB capsule in the afternoon I decided I'd try 2 Swanson's capsules instead (which equals less mgs). I definitely felt more going on with that, as opposed to when I take 1 UB. I also felt a little crampy and had a slight headache briefly after. This really makes me think that Swanson's BO is more potent. I'd be interested to see what would happen if I took only 4 or 5 Swanson's BO per day. If this cycle on UB doesn't go so well, I just may try it. I don't have much to lose at this point!

[TibetanPrincess]

Good girl!
I know the frustration of constant tweaking in a program. Here I am five years later and finally doing it again and this time seeing results. Once you find out what your body needs, its much easier.

So good thing you are looking into different BO brands. I cant wait to wean myself off of PM in a bout a year (if all goes well with) and finish with a BO program.

I will be looking forward to your posts on everything.

Goodluck!