16-12-2011, 17:46
Improving decolletage
November 5 2009 at 4:01 AM kimochan (Login kimochan)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
My current program consists of fenugreek, saw palmetto and red clover and twice daily massages. It's been a month since I started and I got a 1/2 inch growth. I'm currently spilling out a 32B but not filling a 32C yet. My problem is that I have a very bony chest and my chest bones are visible. The top of my breasts aren't as full as I want. I was wondering if I could combine my current program with PM cream?
I used to massage with fenugreek extract + lotion, but it gave me lots of red itchy bumps all over my breasts and some of them left scars. Has anyone experienced this with PM cream?
Author Reply
Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Re: Improving decolletage November 5 2009, 9:44 AM
Hi Kimochan,
I do have some red little bumps sometimes from massage and sometimes I don't...and all from using the same cream...So I thought that there might be two explanations to this:
1) rubbing too hard so skin gets inflamed
2)using too much cream so you block the pores
May be less is more in this case . I noticed that when I don't overdo with massage I don't have this kind of irritation. However, mb some ingredients in cream cause allergic reaction in your case...
christa
(Login Carla1124) Re: Improving decolletage November 6 2009, 2:48 AM
I would like to know exactly how you came to your present conclusion. 1/2 inch. How did you measure. Have you gained weight. I'm not trying to be a wise guy but all the science says both of those herbs can not work.
Fenugreek is only mildly estrogenic. Saw palmetto shows anti-estrogenic activity.
The following was researched by a female MD. I know alot of people around here are much smarter.
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Saw palmetto, used primarily to treat benign prostatichypertrophy, inhibits binding of dihydrotestosterone toandrogen receptors in prostate cells and inhibits bindingof [3H]dihydrotestosterone to its receptor in humanforeskin fibroblasts.23Saw palmetto also inhibits prolac-tin24and has potent1-adrenoceptor effects in vitro.25Studies are mixed on whether or not saw palmettoinhibits 5 -reductase.26 –28An antiestrogenic effect wasnoted in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia whoreceived Serenoa repens (160 mg twice a day).29Theseeffects would not be expected to enlarge breasts.Chaste-Tree Berry (Vitex agnus-castus)
Vitex decreases FSH and increases LH, and inhibitsprolactin activity in vitro.30None of these effects
Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum) and Wild
Yam (Dioscorea villosa)
Although roasted fenugreek seeds were reputedly usedby harem women to enhance buxomness,31there is noevidence that fenugreek increases breast size. Bothfenugreek and wild yam contain diosgenin, which can beconverted to progesterone in a laboratory, but there is noevidence that such conversion takes place endogenouslyAn article distributed as evidence that diosgenin in-creases mammary size does not support the claim. Thisexperiment, in which 20- or 40-mg/kg diosgenin wasgiven with or without estrogen to ovariectomized mice,found no difference in wet or fat-free dry weight ofmammary glands in diosgenin-treated mice.32Diosgenindid significantly affect mammary maturation, increasingterminal end bud differentiation (an effect that takesplace in late pregnancy or under estrogen treatment).Although the words “growth stimulator” and “mamma-ry development” are used, in this case maturation is whatis meant.ADVERSE EFFECTS OF BUST-ENHANCING HERBS
No adverse effects of the most common bust-enhancingherbal products were apparent on the US Food andDrug Administration Special Nutritionals AdverseEvent Reporting System (accessed August 2002). Kavahas been associated with numerous cases of hepatotox-icity and should not be used33; acute dystonic reactionshave been reported as well. Dong quai has been associ-ated with increased risk of bleeding when combined withanticoagulants.34No serious adverse events have beenassociated with black cohosh, saw palmetto, fennel,damiana, blessed thistle (Cnicus benedictus), or dandelion(Taraxacum officinale).Most of the ingredients in these products have notbeen associated with significant adverse effects. Estro-genic stimulation of breast or endometrial tissue is ofconcern with long-term ingestion of hormonally activecompounds; however, data to date do not support potenthormonal effects of the labeled ingredients in bust-en-hancing products.COULD THESE PRODUCTS BE EFFECTIVE?
No clinical trial of a bust-enhancing herbal product hasbeen published. It is unlikely that any of these products,if they contain what their labels say that they contain,would cause breast enlargement. Drugs associated withgynecomastia or mammoplasia include estrogen, pro-tease inhibitors, penicillamine, neuroleptics, and antide-pressants (including tricyclics, monoamine oxidase in-hibitors, and serotonin reuptake inhibitors).35No casesof gynecomastia or mammoplasia have been reportedfor herbs or grains except for a single unreliable case ofgynecomastia associated with dong quai (the productwas not analyzed to exclude steroid adulteration, whichis not uncommon in Asian herbal medicine products).Some herbs contain estrogenic compounds, but the phe-nolic phytoestrogens found in plants would not be ex-pected to be potent enough to cause mammoplasia. Kava1347VOL. 101, NO. 6, JUNE 2003Fugh-Berman“Bust Enhancing” Herbal Products
kimochan
(Login kimochan) Re: Improving decolletage November 7 2009, 2:36 AM
I measured the diameters of both breasts. Both were 7 inches across as of 1st Oct, now I'm 7 1/2 (was 8 inches during luteal swelling). 1st Oct underbust measurement was 27 inches, overbust 31 inches, as of today underbust still 27, overbust 32 inches. I did not gain weight.
I do still massage furiously twice a day, without lotion and in the shower, and take the 3 herbs. Was it just the massage working?
I am seriously considering switching to a copper IUD, so I can use PM internally (now that you cited those references), or is it fine to use PM with a low-dose combined pill?
carla
(Login carlaa1124) Re: Improving decolletage November 7 2009, 9:07 AM
i would not use pm with the pill because it indeed may interfer with it. Meaning it could increase your chances of having a baby. You don't want that.
best carla
November 5 2009 at 4:01 AM kimochan (Login kimochan)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
My current program consists of fenugreek, saw palmetto and red clover and twice daily massages. It's been a month since I started and I got a 1/2 inch growth. I'm currently spilling out a 32B but not filling a 32C yet. My problem is that I have a very bony chest and my chest bones are visible. The top of my breasts aren't as full as I want. I was wondering if I could combine my current program with PM cream?
I used to massage with fenugreek extract + lotion, but it gave me lots of red itchy bumps all over my breasts and some of them left scars. Has anyone experienced this with PM cream?
Author Reply
Tiran1
(Login Tiran1) Re: Improving decolletage November 5 2009, 9:44 AM
Hi Kimochan,
I do have some red little bumps sometimes from massage and sometimes I don't...and all from using the same cream...So I thought that there might be two explanations to this:
1) rubbing too hard so skin gets inflamed
2)using too much cream so you block the pores
May be less is more in this case . I noticed that when I don't overdo with massage I don't have this kind of irritation. However, mb some ingredients in cream cause allergic reaction in your case...
christa
(Login Carla1124) Re: Improving decolletage November 6 2009, 2:48 AM
I would like to know exactly how you came to your present conclusion. 1/2 inch. How did you measure. Have you gained weight. I'm not trying to be a wise guy but all the science says both of those herbs can not work.
Fenugreek is only mildly estrogenic. Saw palmetto shows anti-estrogenic activity.
The following was researched by a female MD. I know alot of people around here are much smarter.
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Saw palmetto, used primarily to treat benign prostatichypertrophy, inhibits binding of dihydrotestosterone toandrogen receptors in prostate cells and inhibits bindingof [3H]dihydrotestosterone to its receptor in humanforeskin fibroblasts.23Saw palmetto also inhibits prolac-tin24and has potent1-adrenoceptor effects in vitro.25Studies are mixed on whether or not saw palmettoinhibits 5 -reductase.26 –28An antiestrogenic effect wasnoted in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia whoreceived Serenoa repens (160 mg twice a day).29Theseeffects would not be expected to enlarge breasts.Chaste-Tree Berry (Vitex agnus-castus)
Vitex decreases FSH and increases LH, and inhibitsprolactin activity in vitro.30None of these effects
Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum) and Wild
Yam (Dioscorea villosa)
Although roasted fenugreek seeds were reputedly usedby harem women to enhance buxomness,31there is noevidence that fenugreek increases breast size. Bothfenugreek and wild yam contain diosgenin, which can beconverted to progesterone in a laboratory, but there is noevidence that such conversion takes place endogenouslyAn article distributed as evidence that diosgenin in-creases mammary size does not support the claim. Thisexperiment, in which 20- or 40-mg/kg diosgenin wasgiven with or without estrogen to ovariectomized mice,found no difference in wet or fat-free dry weight ofmammary glands in diosgenin-treated mice.32Diosgenindid significantly affect mammary maturation, increasingterminal end bud differentiation (an effect that takesplace in late pregnancy or under estrogen treatment).Although the words “growth stimulator” and “mamma-ry development” are used, in this case maturation is whatis meant.ADVERSE EFFECTS OF BUST-ENHANCING HERBS
No adverse effects of the most common bust-enhancingherbal products were apparent on the US Food andDrug Administration Special Nutritionals AdverseEvent Reporting System (accessed August 2002). Kavahas been associated with numerous cases of hepatotox-icity and should not be used33; acute dystonic reactionshave been reported as well. Dong quai has been associ-ated with increased risk of bleeding when combined withanticoagulants.34No serious adverse events have beenassociated with black cohosh, saw palmetto, fennel,damiana, blessed thistle (Cnicus benedictus), or dandelion(Taraxacum officinale).Most of the ingredients in these products have notbeen associated with significant adverse effects. Estro-genic stimulation of breast or endometrial tissue is ofconcern with long-term ingestion of hormonally activecompounds; however, data to date do not support potenthormonal effects of the labeled ingredients in bust-en-hancing products.COULD THESE PRODUCTS BE EFFECTIVE?
No clinical trial of a bust-enhancing herbal product hasbeen published. It is unlikely that any of these products,if they contain what their labels say that they contain,would cause breast enlargement. Drugs associated withgynecomastia or mammoplasia include estrogen, pro-tease inhibitors, penicillamine, neuroleptics, and antide-pressants (including tricyclics, monoamine oxidase in-hibitors, and serotonin reuptake inhibitors).35No casesof gynecomastia or mammoplasia have been reportedfor herbs or grains except for a single unreliable case ofgynecomastia associated with dong quai (the productwas not analyzed to exclude steroid adulteration, whichis not uncommon in Asian herbal medicine products).Some herbs contain estrogenic compounds, but the phe-nolic phytoestrogens found in plants would not be ex-pected to be potent enough to cause mammoplasia. Kava1347VOL. 101, NO. 6, JUNE 2003Fugh-Berman“Bust Enhancing” Herbal Products
kimochan
(Login kimochan) Re: Improving decolletage November 7 2009, 2:36 AM
I measured the diameters of both breasts. Both were 7 inches across as of 1st Oct, now I'm 7 1/2 (was 8 inches during luteal swelling). 1st Oct underbust measurement was 27 inches, overbust 31 inches, as of today underbust still 27, overbust 32 inches. I did not gain weight.
I do still massage furiously twice a day, without lotion and in the shower, and take the 3 herbs. Was it just the massage working?
I am seriously considering switching to a copper IUD, so I can use PM internally (now that you cited those references), or is it fine to use PM with a low-dose combined pill?
carla
(Login carlaa1124) Re: Improving decolletage November 7 2009, 9:07 AM
i would not use pm with the pill because it indeed may interfer with it. Meaning it could increase your chances of having a baby. You don't want that.
best carla