17-04-2012, 12:26
Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!!
September 3 2008 at 12:05 AM Moon (Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been thoroughly confused since realizing that nettle root not only blocks androgens, it also prevents the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. And there are so many estrogen deffinient people taking nettle root!! So what's the deal now, what does this mean for estrogen deficiency and estrogen dominance? Does anyone have an explanation or a hypothesis? Are there any nettle root users who felt that it contributed their growth, made their imbalance better, or parhaps some that felt it prevented their growth and made them worse?
Starting myself, I am estrogen deficient (my own estimate) and I take nettle root. I feel that it improved my acne but couldn't say for sure it contributed to my growth.
As for the explanation, the only idea that occurs to me is that maybe nettle root only inhibits the conversion of testosterone to estrogen in men (it has been researched and confirmed in men). However the enzyme that does this (aromatase) is the same in both sexes...
Author Reply
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 3 2008, 6:06 PM
Is it possible it only prevents testosterone converting to estrogen at higher testosterone levels than women can reach? I thought my hormone test results would come back "Testosterone:- healthy level for pubescent male"! but even a pretty messed up woman wouldn't get close to the male levels.
Never actually used the nettle root myelf as made the mistake of buying the leaf not the root and never bothered to re-order. Took Dianette for 6 months but the doctor didn't want me to take it longer as it's so unhealthy so I'm now on Yasmin - for people with body hair I'd say go on Dianette then get a full body wax, it just doesn't grow back. Make sure you don't get the full body wax when you come off it otherwise it all suddenly re-appears!
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 3 2008, 8:56 PM
True Louise, if I remeber correctly the levels of testosterone are 20x greater in men than in women. I'm also thinking nettle root actually has a dual action on estrogen - diminishing it by directly blocking its synthesis, but by diminishing testosterone it could indirectly increase estrogen, because testosterone inhibits estrogen. So I wonder what the net effect is.
Oh, and now I remember I noticed my hairs grew less and slower after I started taking nettle root. Tho I was also on BCP at the same time.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 3 2008, 9:35 PM
Hi Moon,
I think you may remember me saying that at the time I took it.
Nettle root helped reduce my androgen related symptoms, my acne got better, I had less sweating and felt calmer and better than I ever did while I was on the pill.
I have no estrogen deficiency, those levels are perfectly normal and have been every time I got tested.
I am not sure how it affects estrogen but I never felt like it changed much there, although I am not sure how you would feel if your estrogen levels got low. I always just felt more "normal" than I ever did on the pill while taking nettle root and seemed to get rid of those testosterone related hassles at least to some extent.
Nettle root only contributet so far to my boob growth as that it blocked all that testosterone and helped the Fenugreek to work. I do not believe that nettle root will help to grow your boobs on its own.
I think that maybe the testosterone that we have too much of in our body is not related to the estrogen conversion anyway, which is the reason why it is bothering us so much. If it got converted into estrogen we would be estrogen, not testosterone dominant, or not? So it may not have a huge difference on your estrogen levels, unless you had normal testosterone levels already, which the body needs for synthesizing estrogen. Maybe if you took it then it would lower your estrogen levels? But even so, I cannot imagine it being that significant, I cant really remember, but we do not get our estrogen from testosterone, that sure is not the main source of production.
Does this make any sort of sense?
It probably would be best asking a hormone specialist about this. Is there no one at you could ask where you are studying?
How have you been anyway?
I am still trudging along with the vitex, it is helping but I feel I need another break, but at the moment I am so stressed at work I am not brave enough to stop taking it, I need to keep my nerves together. I just havent felt anymore tingles or growth lately, and it felt like it was working so nicely. I only take 400mgs instead of 800mgs just because the lower doses always seem to be working better for me. Maybe I should increase the dose. I have added milk thistle to clean my skin a bit more, I have been breaking out a bit more again and it is bothering me.
My weight has went down again 2kgs as well, so I am looking to put them back on to see how big my boobs really are :-). They are still bigger than they have ever been before as far as I can tell, so I am not really complaining.
I hope you are well!
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 4 2008, 6:41 PM
Hi Lisa, no I believe all estrogen is converted from androgens, testosterone and another weaker androgen. But anyway, we've seen no signs that nettle root has this estrogen blocking activity in women. Oh well, lots of stuff about NBE doesn't make sense.
I've been both good and bad ''breastwise'' lately I guess, I tried continous use of magnets recently which seemed to work even better than the NBA method, but then I got a really bad reaction with extreme itching. I guess it was nickel allergy, so I'm hoping I'll be able to continue soon when I recieve my gold plated magnets. The problem is, there's still nickel underneath the gold. I'll paint them with nail pollish too and hopefully that will prevent me from absorbing nickel. It'd really suck if I couldn't continue cause it really seemed to work very well and quite fast.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 4 2008, 8:11 PM
Hi Moon,
that is good news that the magnets work so well for you. You can also tape them up or put them in plastic bags on top of the nail polish.
This is what I found on estrogen production for men, which may be the explanation for the effect of nettle root, which probably does not apply to us women so much.
http://www.greendispensary.com/3compound...erone.html
".. and Oestrogen in Men
Interestingly, the male body manufactures its own supply of female hormone.
Where does it get it?
It makes it out of that most masculine of all substances, testosterone. An enzyme called aromatase is widely present in the body and converts a certain portion of the male hormone into the female.
When it comes to estrogen, the window of optimum effectiveness in the male body is very small. Estrogen produced by this conversion can actually unlock or displace testosterone at its various cellular receptor sites. Consequently, too much estrogen will switch off activities.
The control mechanism aspect of estrogen can get out of hand as we grow older. Illness, drugs, dietary imbalances, lifestyle and certain aspects of normal aging help accelerate this process and raise estrogen levels to unhealthy heights. One of the first things we notice is that levels of aromatase, the testosterone-to-estrogen converter, increase. This is, in part, because systems for controlling aromatase falter. In addition, methods of eliminating estrogen once it has been created decline. As a result, the typical middle-aged man becomes overestrogenized."
This for women:
There are three main types of estrogen produced in the female body - estrodial, estrone and estriol. Estrodial is the main estrogen produced in the body and it is secreted by the ovaries. Estrone is produced by the adrenal glands (which becomes more important post menopause) and Estriol is a by product of both estrodial and estrone and is made primarily in the liver.
And this from Yahoo:
Testosterone is synthesized during steroidogenesis, with cholesterol as the starting molecule.
Estrogen is produced primarily by developing follicles in the ovaries, the corpus luteum, and the placenta. Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) stimulate the production of estrogen in the ovaries. Some estrogens are also produced in smaller amounts by other tissues such as the liver, adrenal glands, and the breasts. These secondary sources of estrogen are especially important in postmenopausal women.
Synthesis of estrogens starts in theca interna cells in the ovary, by the synthesis of androstenedione from cholesterol. Androstenedione is a substance of moderate androgenic activity. This compound crosses the basal membrane into the surrounding granulosa cells, where it is converted to estrone or estradiol, either immediately or through testosterone. The conversion of testosterone to estradiol, and of androstenedione to estrone, is catalyzed by the enzyme aromatase.
Estradiol levels vary through the menstrual cycle, with levels highest just before ovulation.
September 3 2008 at 12:05 AM Moon (Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been thoroughly confused since realizing that nettle root not only blocks androgens, it also prevents the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. And there are so many estrogen deffinient people taking nettle root!! So what's the deal now, what does this mean for estrogen deficiency and estrogen dominance? Does anyone have an explanation or a hypothesis? Are there any nettle root users who felt that it contributed their growth, made their imbalance better, or parhaps some that felt it prevented their growth and made them worse?
Starting myself, I am estrogen deficient (my own estimate) and I take nettle root. I feel that it improved my acne but couldn't say for sure it contributed to my growth.
As for the explanation, the only idea that occurs to me is that maybe nettle root only inhibits the conversion of testosterone to estrogen in men (it has been researched and confirmed in men). However the enzyme that does this (aromatase) is the same in both sexes...
Author Reply
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 3 2008, 6:06 PM
Is it possible it only prevents testosterone converting to estrogen at higher testosterone levels than women can reach? I thought my hormone test results would come back "Testosterone:- healthy level for pubescent male"! but even a pretty messed up woman wouldn't get close to the male levels.
Never actually used the nettle root myelf as made the mistake of buying the leaf not the root and never bothered to re-order. Took Dianette for 6 months but the doctor didn't want me to take it longer as it's so unhealthy so I'm now on Yasmin - for people with body hair I'd say go on Dianette then get a full body wax, it just doesn't grow back. Make sure you don't get the full body wax when you come off it otherwise it all suddenly re-appears!
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 3 2008, 8:56 PM
True Louise, if I remeber correctly the levels of testosterone are 20x greater in men than in women. I'm also thinking nettle root actually has a dual action on estrogen - diminishing it by directly blocking its synthesis, but by diminishing testosterone it could indirectly increase estrogen, because testosterone inhibits estrogen. So I wonder what the net effect is.
Oh, and now I remember I noticed my hairs grew less and slower after I started taking nettle root. Tho I was also on BCP at the same time.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 3 2008, 9:35 PM
Hi Moon,
I think you may remember me saying that at the time I took it.
Nettle root helped reduce my androgen related symptoms, my acne got better, I had less sweating and felt calmer and better than I ever did while I was on the pill.
I have no estrogen deficiency, those levels are perfectly normal and have been every time I got tested.
I am not sure how it affects estrogen but I never felt like it changed much there, although I am not sure how you would feel if your estrogen levels got low. I always just felt more "normal" than I ever did on the pill while taking nettle root and seemed to get rid of those testosterone related hassles at least to some extent.
Nettle root only contributet so far to my boob growth as that it blocked all that testosterone and helped the Fenugreek to work. I do not believe that nettle root will help to grow your boobs on its own.
I think that maybe the testosterone that we have too much of in our body is not related to the estrogen conversion anyway, which is the reason why it is bothering us so much. If it got converted into estrogen we would be estrogen, not testosterone dominant, or not? So it may not have a huge difference on your estrogen levels, unless you had normal testosterone levels already, which the body needs for synthesizing estrogen. Maybe if you took it then it would lower your estrogen levels? But even so, I cannot imagine it being that significant, I cant really remember, but we do not get our estrogen from testosterone, that sure is not the main source of production.
Does this make any sort of sense?
It probably would be best asking a hormone specialist about this. Is there no one at you could ask where you are studying?
How have you been anyway?
I am still trudging along with the vitex, it is helping but I feel I need another break, but at the moment I am so stressed at work I am not brave enough to stop taking it, I need to keep my nerves together. I just havent felt anymore tingles or growth lately, and it felt like it was working so nicely. I only take 400mgs instead of 800mgs just because the lower doses always seem to be working better for me. Maybe I should increase the dose. I have added milk thistle to clean my skin a bit more, I have been breaking out a bit more again and it is bothering me.
My weight has went down again 2kgs as well, so I am looking to put them back on to see how big my boobs really are :-). They are still bigger than they have ever been before as far as I can tell, so I am not really complaining.
I hope you are well!
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 4 2008, 6:41 PM
Hi Lisa, no I believe all estrogen is converted from androgens, testosterone and another weaker androgen. But anyway, we've seen no signs that nettle root has this estrogen blocking activity in women. Oh well, lots of stuff about NBE doesn't make sense.
I've been both good and bad ''breastwise'' lately I guess, I tried continous use of magnets recently which seemed to work even better than the NBA method, but then I got a really bad reaction with extreme itching. I guess it was nickel allergy, so I'm hoping I'll be able to continue soon when I recieve my gold plated magnets. The problem is, there's still nickel underneath the gold. I'll paint them with nail pollish too and hopefully that will prevent me from absorbing nickel. It'd really suck if I couldn't continue cause it really seemed to work very well and quite fast.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Knowledgeable NBEers, nettle root users - help solve the nettle root mistery!! September 4 2008, 8:11 PM
Hi Moon,
that is good news that the magnets work so well for you. You can also tape them up or put them in plastic bags on top of the nail polish.
This is what I found on estrogen production for men, which may be the explanation for the effect of nettle root, which probably does not apply to us women so much.
http://www.greendispensary.com/3compound...erone.html
".. and Oestrogen in Men
Interestingly, the male body manufactures its own supply of female hormone.
Where does it get it?
It makes it out of that most masculine of all substances, testosterone. An enzyme called aromatase is widely present in the body and converts a certain portion of the male hormone into the female.
When it comes to estrogen, the window of optimum effectiveness in the male body is very small. Estrogen produced by this conversion can actually unlock or displace testosterone at its various cellular receptor sites. Consequently, too much estrogen will switch off activities.
The control mechanism aspect of estrogen can get out of hand as we grow older. Illness, drugs, dietary imbalances, lifestyle and certain aspects of normal aging help accelerate this process and raise estrogen levels to unhealthy heights. One of the first things we notice is that levels of aromatase, the testosterone-to-estrogen converter, increase. This is, in part, because systems for controlling aromatase falter. In addition, methods of eliminating estrogen once it has been created decline. As a result, the typical middle-aged man becomes overestrogenized."
This for women:
There are three main types of estrogen produced in the female body - estrodial, estrone and estriol. Estrodial is the main estrogen produced in the body and it is secreted by the ovaries. Estrone is produced by the adrenal glands (which becomes more important post menopause) and Estriol is a by product of both estrodial and estrone and is made primarily in the liver.
And this from Yahoo:
Testosterone is synthesized during steroidogenesis, with cholesterol as the starting molecule.
Estrogen is produced primarily by developing follicles in the ovaries, the corpus luteum, and the placenta. Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) stimulate the production of estrogen in the ovaries. Some estrogens are also produced in smaller amounts by other tissues such as the liver, adrenal glands, and the breasts. These secondary sources of estrogen are especially important in postmenopausal women.
Synthesis of estrogens starts in theca interna cells in the ovary, by the synthesis of androstenedione from cholesterol. Androstenedione is a substance of moderate androgenic activity. This compound crosses the basal membrane into the surrounding granulosa cells, where it is converted to estrone or estradiol, either immediately or through testosterone. The conversion of testosterone to estradiol, and of androstenedione to estrone, is catalyzed by the enzyme aromatase.
Estradiol levels vary through the menstrual cycle, with levels highest just before ovulation.