[AbiDrew85]

It's really not that estrogenic and it's good for am fatigue? hm...

If I can't find something to replace my chinese skullcap with I'm going to need to just fight the fatigue from it somehow instead... I wonder if that'd work then.

Whatever I do has to fight fatigue without being an actual stimulant, cuz I'm already on lots of stimulants that aren't amounting to much.

Now I'm wondering if alfalfa might do it... It shouldn't mess with my other estrogens at all then?

[TibetanPrincess]

Abs,

It nourishes the pituitary and is great for bringing iron levels up. Also, I've been reading good things about it affecting thyroid levels in a good way. Prob the relationship between pit and thyroid.


I've taken up to 6 grams consistently and have never had a problem with growing but I don't know if it affected any growing potential. So can't answer that. I deal with massive interference at night, so sometimes I wake up to pop a couple Gms of alfalfa and a b vit and I recover!


Worth a shot ehh?

[LookingForward2NBE]

Thought I would share a couple of observations now that I'm 20weeks plus. I have been taking 1-2tbsp of alfalfa during my 2nd trimester and now that I've started my 3rd will be ramping up the dose until 2-3 weeks before my due date. I have goats rue and fg on hand if I need when I commence breast feeding.

1. NBE is a slow process. With extremely high, through the roof levels of estrogen its just now that I have seen significant enhancement (around 1 cup size). So don't expect immediate results. Definitely see it as a year long process to see some results and probably a 2-3yr journey. No short cuts.

Granted, my areola's are huge and darker and my nipples have definitely gotten bigger and preparing for lactation.

So now looking at NBE, as I figured just focusing on phtyoestrogen is probably too limiting for the majority of women. As for cycling phytoestrogens, now I'm not so sure... If keeping to a regular cycle or just continuing throughout the month is better.

2. I think and figured as much before that phytoprogesterones and prolactin play a far more substantial role in growth for glandular and fat recruitment. So pituatary glandular as well as placenta supplementation probably a much more important role then is ever given credit. As important as estrogen is for expansion of tissues, the other hormones fill in the breast framework.

3. Support factors such as healthy fats, collagen and cell turnover supplements are just as important.

4. Based on how women grow during pregnancy, its probably a good model for women to follow looking for NBE.

Quickly boost estro through the roof your 1st month.
Add glandulars for growth factors and other mRNA, DNA, aminos, proteins after 2 months.
Booth progesterone and prolactin around month 4.

The quick rampup of estrogen could prime your system for growth vs.a slow increase which your body may down regulate. Use the most phytoestrogen, which means P. Mirifica. No reason to play around with lesser potent herb unless you don't respond to it.

5. Fenugreek in my opinion from all literature I've read is a minor player. Its the most talked about but mostly from foklore. It works for some but the responders are way way less who find it ineffective. Dosing is very high so get to 6+ grams if doing nbe.

6. Use goat's rue. I would do it first as a tincture and apply it as a massage with dmso\aloe mix as the carrier. Avoid areola's entirely including nipples.

7. Considering drinking lots and lots of alfalfa leaf tea. Its highly nutritious and could help.

8. Eat some Brazil nuts for selenium and glutathione enhancement. Eat apricots. Eat nuts like walnuts. Eat Pumpkin seeds. A spoonful of sesame seeds could be helpful in kefir, yogurt etc.

9. Make and consume beef bone + chicken carcacus feet head broth and consume some daily for growth promoters and nourishment.

So I see it as, estro ramp up fast and a lot 1st for tissue expansion and then fill it in with prolactin and progesterone then slowly wean, rest and do it again..

The fast ramping up is what triggers body to grow.

But don't forget to support tissue growth by feeding it collagen, amino's and glandular substances and fats.

[LookingForward2NBE]

Hi everyone,
Thought I would provide everyone an update and my findings at 35 weeks pregnant.

I have gained about 1 cup size and can start to feel milk glands starting to prepare for milk let down. They feel heavy and less squishy.

Considering a lot of nbe is often about boosting hormones being key, I'm not sure its just that. My levels of estrogen are through the roof, prolactin high and progesterone as well - yet only minimal gains.

I've been drinking 5+ grams of alfalfa daily and the last 4 weeks 3-5g of red clover.

I really hope I will be able to breastfeed, was diagnosed with pcos years go so I'm worried about igt.

I've got tonnes of herbs on hand in case.

That said, I think for nbe to be effective (outside of pregnancy) at least for me later I'm going to take into consideration the following things:

1. Men tend to be much faster responders then women to estrogen changes. Obviously because they didn't go through female puberty and the estrogen surge. Since we did, we need to resensitize our breast tissue to estrogen.

2. Mechanical manipulation either via massage and noogle is really important. That said, noogle scares me for fear of overstretching sensitive ligaments. I'm going to really focus on light touch like deer exercise. That study were military snipers having right side breasts growth due to gun barrel constantly rubbing their chest kind of leads support as well.

3. I feel its important consume significant qty of healthy fats, bone soup, natural bird and fish collagens to provide the right of basement membrane structures for growth.

4. Pituatary substance, placenta substance and bovine ovary I feel is also key.

[surferjoe2007]

Try 1/4 tsp kelp a day for iodine to lactate, and 1000-2000 iu vitamin D for calcium channel response to hormones, and for the health of yourself and the baby too. 2700+ mg omega 3s from seafood sources are important to reduce birth defects by 75%. Mercury doesn't bond to oil so fish oil is great, but most seafood has very little mercury and is safe to consume even during pregnancy. Mercury is in the large fish like tuna, swordfish and shark. Avoid those. Dunno if it helps NBE at all, but it is related to fatty tissue.

Anything hormonal substance at all during pregnancy does make me uneasy because a life is at stake, but I have heard of historical use on some. RC is an especially strong estrogen moderator, even though it's weak for NBE. Rather, it pushes towards the middle: when your estrogen skyrockets RC may actually block estrogen with great effectiveness rather than raise it. So you might have the estrogen but it isn't actually getting to the receptors as often. It might also have estrogen effects in the child. I'd get off the RC right away, at least for the child's sake let alone everything else. Here are some studies:
RC calves were heavier but less muscular compared to calves from grass fed mothers: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18765609
It does have an estrogenic effect on the rat uterus and ovaries: http://openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult.php?img=3104165_jvs-12-121-g002&req=4
Typical supplemental amounts of RC had no effect on rat uterus but a large amount did and could be risky in pregnancy: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18619951 . I think the extract they used was rather strong though.
I wouldn't mess with it because of risk to the uterus and the child, and for you I'm not even sure if it's NBE or anti-NBE right now.

If you do end up with low milk supply, 6 grams FG is often recommended (after birth), or enough to make you smell like maple syrup. But if you get too much reduce the herbs or the baby will get too much of the late milk making him/her bloated and gassy won't get enough of the early milk which includes immune system factors.

[LookingForward2NBE]

Hi everyone.

Wow it's been a long time since I posted even though I check in often. After breasting my first child to 29months and while being pregnant with my second and currently breasting my second baby who is 9mon and having taken a tonne a herbs both times.. I have a new found perspective on herbal methods and also researching some things based on my findings.

Herbs that I have taken during my 2 pregnancies and pretty much continual breast feeding.. Most decreased during 2nd pregnancy and some only post, or during 1st and 2nd trimester and some only during 3rd trimester.

Goat's rue, fenugreek, blessed thistle, red clover, alfalfa, marshmallow root, stinging nettle, fennel seed, dandelion root, oats, high DHA omega fish oil, silicia, coconut oil, black strap molasses, b complex, folic acid, iron,dried egg shell for calcium and egg shell membrane and probably a couple of other things I've forgotten.

If people are curious, I've grown a cup but mainly glandular. Hoping in a year if my little chooses to keep breast feeding and stop on her own early to keep my current size.. That said, I'll definitely he trying keep my size post lactation and grow some if possible. Still researching some questions I have after nearly 3 years of experience.