[roseblossom]

I read on this forum that use of vitex can cause breasts to shrink if a woman does not need progesterone. I have taken online hormone tests that would indicate I have a progesterone deficiency and excess estrogen.

I realize that I should take a real test, but they are so expensive: $275 where I live!

Can anyone here share their experiences?

I would like to take chasteberry to relieve menstrual symptoms-- heavy bleeding, depression, irregular periods, etc-- that it is used for, but I do worry about this one possible side effect.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[roseblossom]

Well, I thought about deleting this post... I think I will go ahead and get the hormone test for peace of mind. Still, any feedback would be appreciated!

[Lotus]

Hi roseblossom,

Vitex is known for shrinkage in fibroids,
This is known to be an excellent herb for balancing hormonal levels, particularly in relation to estrogen and progesterone. It is reported to have the dual benefits of helping reduce menstrual bleeding and actually shrinking fibroids.
http://afibroidsmiracle.com/vitex-fibroids/


The rest of the info I'm sure you know already, just thought it may help!

Vitex contains substances similar in composition to sex hormones in the leaves and flowers. The potential actions of these substances is not known, but studies have shown some benefit in treating premenstrual symptoms with Vitex, including a German study reported in the January 2001 "British Medical Journal." Some researchers think Vitex and similar herbs may have estrogen-like effects, the University of Maryland Land Center states. Estrogen increases fibroid growth, so fibroids often shrink during menopause without any treatment.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/359540...-fibroids/


Vitex does not actually contain hormones. It appears to increase progesterone by stimulating the release of a hormone called luteinizing hormone from the pituitary gland. Vitex is also thought to normalize excessive prolactin levels and promote fertility.

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupp.../Vitex.htm


Good luck!

[EllaC]

Its almost a conspiracy really how expensive a hormone test can be! Its the same in my country, drs apparently just WONT do them upon request and you have to pay hundreds to get them done!
Aren't hormones key to good health.. Shouldn't that then be a primary focus for all women/men especially post childbirth given the high rates of post natal depression! By gawd I could have saved myself a lot of grief if only I had known that hormones could have been behind my post natal and was given the opportunity to become balanced again.
I'l follow this post too Rose, I'm interested in Vitex - thanks Lotus

[roseblossom]

Oh, thank-you for the information, Lotus! Much appreciated.

Aren't hormones key to good health.. Shouldn't that then be a primary focus for all women/men especially post childbirth given the high rates of post natal depression! By gawd I could have saved myself a lot of grief if only I had known that hormones could have been behind my post natal and was given the opportunity to become balanced again.

No kidding... I'm sorry you had to go through that! I know that some of my worst depression was due to some hormonal imbalance (e.g. the impact birth control had on my emotional health was horrible).

Doctors rarely discuss natural treatments for chronic pain and mental illness-- and yet some of the best treatments are all-natural and non-invasive. I've been able to treat most of my chronic problems with diet and exercise. Now I'd like to try herbs for PMS.

[EllaC]

Oh, thank-you for the information, Lotus! Much appreciated.

Aren't hormones key to good health.. Shouldn't that then be a primary focus for all women/men especially post childbirth given the high rates of post natal depression! By gawd I could have saved myself a lot of grief if only I had known that hormones could have been behind my post natal and was given the opportunity to become balanced again.

No kidding... I'm sorry you had to go through that! I know that some of my worst depression was due to some hormonal imbalance (e.g. the impact birth control had on my emotional health was horrible).

Doctors rarely discuss natural treatments for chronic pain and mental illness-- and yet some of the best treatments are all-natural and non-invasive. I've been able to treat most of my chronic problems with diet and exercise. Now I'd like to try herbs for PMS.

That's really inspiring what you have said above! I've read until my eyes have popped out of my head all about natural health and remedies. I think you can get to a point that you read TOO much and don't retain all you have learnt - case in point myself!

I had a doctor here once when we moved to a new town and I mentioned I didn't want to take antibiotics if I didn't have to fear of side effects and she said "oh YOU PEOPLE make me sick with all your natural healing stuff!" - I was soo angry I almost told her to go and get *^^&*.
The sadest part is for me I lost almost 2 years of my wee daughters life by not being able to bond with her in that crucial time because I was suffering quite badly from the post baby depression. Not ONE doctor said to me, why don't we check out your hormone levels or iron levels etc given I'd just given birth. Maybe things may have been soo much better.

I hope you are well over your depression now, it is a cruel illness with far reaching consequences.

[roseblossom]

Oh, thank-you for the information, Lotus! Much appreciated.

Aren't hormones key to good health.. Shouldn't that then be a primary focus for all women/men especially post childbirth given the high rates of post natal depression! By gawd I could have saved myself a lot of grief if only I had known that hormones could have been behind my post natal and was given the opportunity to become balanced again.

No kidding... I'm sorry you had to go through that! I know that some of my worst depression was due to some hormonal imbalance (e.g. the impact birth control had on my emotional health was horrible).

Doctors rarely discuss natural treatments for chronic pain and mental illness-- and yet some of the best treatments are all-natural and non-invasive. I've been able to treat most of my chronic problems with diet and exercise. Now I'd like to try herbs for PMS.

That's really inspiring what you have said above! I've read until my eyes have popped out of my head all about natural health and remedies. I think you can get to a point that you read TOO much and don't retain all you have learnt - case in point myself!

I had a doctor here once when we moved to a new town and I mentioned I didn't want to take antibiotics if I didn't have to fear of side effects and she said "oh YOU PEOPLE make me sick with all your natural healing stuff!" - I was soo angry I almost told her to go and get *^^&*.
The sadest part is for me I lost almost 2 years of my wee daughters life by not being able to bond with her in that crucial time because I was suffering quite badly from the post baby depression. Not ONE doctor said to me, why don't we check out your hormone levels or iron levels etc given I'd just given birth. Maybe things may have been soo much better.

I hope you are well over your depression now, it is a cruel illness with far reaching consequences.

Thanks, Ella. I still have my rough days, but it's so much better now. Funny thing... carrots have been better for relieving depression than anything else I've tried! I eat them regularly.

...and you have every right to be angry. Natural healing is the best healing! So many antibiotics are being overused that they're now losing their effectiveness, anyway.

I'm sorry you missed out on so much! I don't understand why doctors don't recommend hormone tests. My sister needs one, I'm sure of it. I've been pushing her to get one. Her doctor told her yesterday she was "too young" to have a hormone test-- even though she suffers from cyclical depression, headaches, low libido, etc.

Sometimes I think about starting my own product line dedicated to all-natural remedies for women. All profits would go to women's health organizations.

[roseblossom]

Okay, so after looking into multiple clinical trials and many health articles (Thanks, Lotus), I found the following:

1. Low doses (~20mg dried, ~200mg fresh) of vitex extract is recommended for symptoms of PMS. (Clinical trial, at least three separate trials yielded similar results.)
2. Low doses (~20mg dried, ~200mg fresh) of vitex extract has been shown to increase prolactin levels, whereas higher doses (900mg fresh) decrease prolactin levels. (Source)
3. Vitex is used to treat both PMS and PCOS, but at very different doses. 20mg dried/200mg fresh for PMS, at least 1000mg fresh for PCOS.

Pretty sure I don't have PCOS. I'm going to get a hormone test soon to have this all figured out. For PMS, I only need the low dose. I need to take it for at least 3 months to determine its effectiveness. Taken in the morning on an empty stomach is recommended.

It seems that Vitex used alone typically does not have any impact on breast growth, but there have been multiple cases of both increased and decreased breast size with this supplement (I found these results on multiple forums, not just this one). It seems to have a negative effect on women under the age of 26. Because it has been shown to decrease breast tumors and uterine fibroids, I wonder if the decrease in breast size was related to a decrease in unhealthy tissue?

[EllaC]

Okay, so after looking into multiple clinical trials and many health articles (Thanks, Lotus), I found the following:

1. Low doses (~20mg dried, ~200mg fresh) of vitex extract is recommended for symptoms of PMS. (Clinical trial, at least three separate trials yielded similar results.)
2. Low doses (~20mg dried, ~200mg fresh) of vitex extract has been shown to increase prolactin levels, whereas higher doses (900mg fresh) decrease prolactin levels. (Source)
3. Vitex is used to treat both PMS and PCOS, but at very different doses. 20mg dried/200mg fresh for PMS, at least 1000mg fresh for PCOS.

Pretty sure I don't have PCOS. I'm going to get a hormone test soon to have this all figured out. For PMS, I only need the low dose. I need to take it for at least 3 months to determine its effectiveness. Taken in the morning on an empty stomach is recommended.

It seems that Vitex used alone typically does not have any impact on breast growth, but there have been multiple cases of both increased and decreased breast size with this supplement (I found these results on multiple forums, not just this one). It seems to have a negative effect on women under the age of 26. Because it has been shown to decrease breast tumors and uterine fibroids, I wonder if the decrease in breast size was related to a decrease in unhealthy tissue?

Il tell you what, whenever I looked at supplementing with vitex it was always certainly well over 200mg, from memory the average suggested serving was always 400mg. So if higher doses decreases prolactin then that might explain the breast reduction esp if prolactins higher in younger women. But the idea of shrinking tumours and fibroids seems a great idea!! You know the only vitex I could find as there wasn't any in low doses in my country was a liquid extract off iherb. That way you can measure out your own dose.

I was reading up a lot on maca last night and its adaptogenic properties, I'm most interested in that for hormone balancing
. I realise that vitex is adaptogenic as well but its scary that there is conflicting information out there with regard to dosing.

Also multiple women have gained increases in breast size after taking maca suggested by their health advisors for other reasons so it was a surprise to them.

Ive yet to read up more before taking it as anything other than just in a smoothie.

[roseblossom]

So, I found the thread where a user (melosh) said they shrunk on vitex. They were taking 3600 mg/day, way above the recommended dosage for even extreme conditions like PCOS.

Although I read on multiple forums that women have supposedly shrunk on vitex, I only found one user specifically making that claim. All others were, "We've heard that some women shrink on vitex."

You're right, vitex is not well researched. That's what bugs me. I did find some clinical trials that showed effectiveness from 200 - 1000 mg.

Honestly, it seems like the benefits outweigh the risks.

If I'm going to take it at all, I'm going to start with 200 mg for the first three months. I purchased the liquid extract, so I can determine my own dosage. Now I'm curious about Maca, but I think I will stick with what I already purchased. Maybe I'll experiment more in the future. If you try it, we'll have to see if it works for you!