21-02-2016, 01:52
Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 28 2007 at 6:02 PM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
I've been reading on the internet and understand that androgen secretion is stimulated by insulin secretion and the insulin level rises to deal with the sugar intake. I've been looking at buying propecia (finasteride) on the net which blocks the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT. - Is it the testosterone or just the DHT we have to reduce?
Can someone please clarify the mechanism by which increased sugar consumption leads to turning into a man? Is it actually testosterone or DHT that causes the prolems?
SP also stops testosterone turning to DHT and this doctor recommends 320mg daily:
http://www.drbriffa.com/blog/2007/02/21/...iry-women/
Alternatively Dianette BCP contains cyproterone acetate, which is an antiandrogen that acts by blocking androgen receptors to prevent the action of testosterone AND DHT and as it is a bcp it also increase the levels of circulating SHBG (sex hormone binging globulin), causing more of the excess testosterone to become converted into its bound and inactive form - what is the inactive form?.
In terms of testosterone blocking nettle's a diuretic (may interfere with Brava), SP may cause cellulite and pygeum reduces prolactin so think I may be better with the meds?
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 28 2007, 7:19 PM
p.s. in what way does increased testosterone/DHT inhibit nbe? Does it bind to eostrogen receptors due to similar molecule?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 5:49 PM
Testosterone is the less active form of the hormone, the storage form, and DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the active form, which is a lot mor potent. DHT executes the majority of actions of testosterone. My guess would be that preventing testosterone to convert to DHT would be the most effective way of getting rid of it.
I wouldn't say that increased shuggar consumption lead to turning into a man. :p There is however a corelation or a regulative loop between insulin and testosterone - insulin stimulates the action of testosterone, so it would be advisable for us to eat in a way that doesn't allow our insuline levels to soar, like cutting out table shuggar and refined white flour, eating low glychemic index foods, and if eating sweets, just a little at once.
Now, the effects of testosterone that are relevant for our NBE: testosterone blocks estrogen, and estrogen blocks testosterone. Testosterone, citing my text book now - supresses mammary gland development. Testosterone also raises LDL (bad cholsterol) and lowers HDL (good cholesterol) and promotes storage of fat in the lower areas of body, especially abdomen.
The later I found particulary interesting, cause this means that having that stubborn belly might be another sign of high testosterone, which we didn't take into consideration before.
Testosterone increases production of sebum by sabacceous glands and is the direct cause of acne.
Now, I also googled testosterone and prolactin cause I had a hunch that there could be a correlation between these two as well and I found one study that showed that testosterone did indeed inhibit secretion of prolactin. This study however wasn't done on humans but on chickens lol.
That is correct about SP, it pervents testosterone from converting into DHT, and nettle root has the same effect, without the risk of weight gain that SP has.
I'm quite certain that I have too high testosterone levels and would also be interested in that blocker, could you tell me more about it? Can it really be bought without a perscription? I'm a bit worried about messing with hormones too much, particulary testosterone, cause I experienced several times that after inhibiting it with some method, when I stop that method the state becomes even worse than it was at the beginning.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Aug 29, 2007 5:52 PM
Cynthia
(Login Baste4562)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 6:03 PM
Ok, so where do diabetics stand in all of this? They don't produce insulin.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Diabetics
August 29 2007, 6:13 PM
They don't but they're either taking insulin, diet control so less sugar or using metformin which prevents other sugars e.g. lactose from turning into glucose, increases sensitivity to insulin (not sure if this would mean that it has an increased effect on testosterone too) and decreases absorption of glucose in the intestine.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 6:28 PM
Moon,
Truthfully what I am looking for is something that stops sugar turning into DHT so that I can continue to enjoy my food and something to reduce the DHT I already have. The hairyness and skin seemed to get worse between ages 22-25. Interestingly my skin is dry but spotty and being on the pill levonogestrel + estradiol (no andgrogen blocker) fixed it in a month. Also my pms was getting worse and worse, my period pains were getting to the point where I had it a week before, during and a few days mid cycle with random cramps in between. Also had knee and back pains. Again the pill fixed all this in weeks. Other women in my family aren't exactly top heavy but more balanced and less pear shaped than I am and on my dad's side are large with big boobs and bum. I would easily believe that my lack of protein and too much carbs during puberty stunted boob growth.
Not sure if you're supposed to use propecia without a prescription but you can get hold of it from lots of sources (it's supposed to be for male pattern balding!). Actually I do have a lot of hair loss but doesn't look thin so and is very long so maybe that's normal. Personally I would prefer to take flutamide but not seen that to buy. All of these things you need to stop if you want to become pregnant as they can damage the genitals of a male foetus. Also although lots of sources (and some other pco / hirsutism forums) describe their use to combat hirsutism / pco / acne they are not actually licensed for those uses so that's why it says contrindicated in women. Have a look on google. Main thing for me is not to be diuretic as it will mess with Brava. Also all these things can be bad for the liver so technically you're supposed to have LFT every 3 months I think. You say you felt worse after you came off antiandrogen? Why did you come off? I'm not sure if we wouldn't be better trying dianette (aka diane) first as cyproterone is also advised for hirsutism / pco - seems like less side effects.
In trying to eat more protein without getting fat again (I don't have the stubborn belly but I find spare tyre loss and boob loss closely related) I have probably reduced my carb intake in terms of less pasta and potato but still eat a sandwich every day and usually some sort of low fat crisps / low fat chocolate bar and then there's the addictive yoghurts...just don't think I can cut sugar...sorry this has turned into a novel!
Louise
(no login)
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 6:52 PM
Also my husband is not losing any hair but he went grey in his 30s and he says this means he has high testosterone...he constantly drinks tea with 2-3 sugars and eats loads of chocolate and a packet of chocolate biscuits every night...does the same sugar testosterone thing work for men? (He's not fat either so it must be going somewhere!)
Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 7:20 PM
High testerone in men does lead to alot of baldness and unforuately heart disease, usually a serious heart attack. Men with with high testerone levels should take precautions and have annual check up starting late thirties, early forties.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 7:29 PM
That's interesting as his father died of a sudden heart attack age 59, I'll tell him he's old and he needs a check up! A few slim men I know who eat fatty food have high blood cholesterol rather than being fat dunno if that's a recognised medical fact.
Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 7:45 PM
Of course it is!!!!!! Lots of things come into play heart problems. Even too much calcium can contribute. It is in his family history, he should take it seriously and get a complete psycical before something bad happens. Heart and stroke are usually carry on from generation to generation. Better safe than sorry, get him to go see his doctor for check up and blood work.
Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 30 2007, 3:12 PM
Hi Louise, re your husband, it isn't how fat people are but where they store it. The more fat is acumulated around the inner organs the higher the risk or heart disease etc. People can be very slim and have that wihtout any obvious outer signs. He should get checked out regularly and reduce the crap he is eating and start exercising regularly to prevent getting a problem with his carcio vascular system.
Especially with his dad having died of a heart attack he has a predisposition for heart disease so he should really watch himself.
Moon and Louise, can I just ask why you want to take these drugs when you could just take nettle root or something similar instead? I just hate all this artificial stuff, I never felt that comfortable being on the pill and try and take herbal medicine whenever I can avoid the other stuff. Things that damage your liver and have other rubbish side effects just make me weary.
However, I am interested how you get on if you start that stuff, so please keep me updated if you guys don't mind, or if you find anything else that helps you, I will do the same.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 30 2007, 3:36 PM
Hi Lisa,
It's v hard for me to be preachy about diet when I've eaten badly for since I was old enough to go to the sweet shop on my own! I'll try to get him a medical when he's in one country long enough. The last few months is the first time I've been interested in nutrition and that is for boob-sake not health. I come from a long line of people who've drank, smoked and eaten whatever they felt like and lived till their 90s and I'm really not health conscious just vain! I'm not doing nbe because it's healthy / natural / holistic etc I don't think I could bring mysef to have implants because I'm religious and I think you'd have a lot of explaining to do if you died on the table for the sake of vanity. Also I'd be scared they look / feel nasty or there may be complications so I'd end up small and badly scarred.
The reason I'm interested in meds is that surely they are more likely to be effective, if nothing else against the new male body hair I keep finding which totally disgusts me. I really feel like I need M2F chemical sex change and it's starting to get me down. Also the doses and side effects are better documented so at least I know what I'm letting myself in for. The pill has worked wonders for me, probably the best medicine I've ever taken and that doesnn't even block androgens so I'm fantasising about what could be possible. I am vaguely concerned about the liver which is why I'd rather have medical supervision but private's so expensive and NHS is so slow. Surely your liver could take it for a few months and if after that you weren't growing it'd be better to try something else. Just don't want to be taking WU for ever and ever only to have it blocked by testosterone.
I need something so strong I can eat all the sugar I like!
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee)
Thanks for the info
September 1 2007, 9:56 AM
Thanks this is very helpful.
Good info on androgen action.
I have the same concerns as you on health issues and drugs.
Is that Dianette BCP,something in Great Britain availability?
and I wonder what an equivalent drug in US would be?
I'll do a search and find out about it.
If I cant find answers then I'll come back to this thread and ask someone.
I did notice that it contains the same ingredient as Androcur(cypri...)
Cheers!
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee)
No need to respond on that...
September 1 2007, 10:30 AM
No need to respond..I just saw Louise's post about this...duh...
it answered my question as to where to look.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
September 1 2007, 11:41 AM
Louise, personally I think, I'm afraid, that ther aren't very many shortcuts in NBE. I'm not convinced that taking an androgen blocker would fix the problem if you kept eating a high carb diet - your insulin would still be high, and you may develop insuline resistence, which promotes fat storage everywhere but in the boobs, and insulin has a bunch on inhibiting actions on sex hormones and overall metabolism. It is very likely that you have a bit of insulin resistence already, if you had a high carb diet while growing up. But you have dome a lot about your diet allready so that's great. Some advice on diet I can come up with - eat wholewheat bread with seeds, instead of white bread from refined flour. You may not like the taste from the beginning, but you get used to it, I started to like that bread a lot mor than white. Eat wholewheat cookies - they are actually delicious! Really, I love them. I still spoil myself with some real pastry from time to time, but I try not to have to much at once. Drink a lot of milk - like when you are hungry between the meals, and you know you shouldn't eat. It contains proteins, which is exactly what we need. It also contains some fats, which are very important actually - the presence of fats in the blood is one of the most important signals to the satiety center in the brain that stops hunger. And it's liquid, it contains a lot of water, which fills your stomach and also stops hunger. A high carb and low protein meal releases even more insulin, so you should eat mixed meals, always some protein with it too. Eat low glychemic index foods (you can google that for moe detail), but fo example, brown rice and brown spaghetty are perfectly ok. And again, I swear, they taste great once you get used to them. :p
Lisa - I am/was considering anandrogen blocking drug because nettle root unfortunately doesn't do all the trick for me. It does help greately, but it doesn't do away with my excess androgen symptoms entirely, by far. I think I have really very high androgens.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
September 1 2007, 11:48 AM
Oh, and there is one more thing I was going to say for a low carb diet - if you buy products for diabetics / weight loss, products with less calories, don't buy anything which contains fructose! Frustose is often used as an alternative sweetener to glucose because it contains less calories, but this is actually a big misconception. While fructose does contain less calories as glucose, for some not understood reasons it actually shifts metablosm into a direction that promotes storage of fats in peripheral tissues. Experiments on rats have been performed and the rats fed with fructose became much fatter han the rats fed with glucose.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Sep 1, 2007 11:50 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Boring diet info...
September 1 2007, 8:55 PM
That's v interesting about fructose - what about actual fruit / juices? Any ideas about sorbitol / other polyols? I know they have laxative effects in high amounts as my friend found out from eating a whole box of breathmints! Now my first response to your info about sugar in the diet would be well there's always metformin! Exciting side effects such as diarhoea (57%), nausea and vomiting (25%) make me a bit wary, but cutting sugar is sooooo depressing!
My diet: - Not as bad as I thought
I do like rye bread, particularly toasted with butter and honey (but crusty white's nicer) have maybe 4 slices of toast per week, hardly ever eat cakes / biscuits, love potatoes but can't remember the last time I had them other than as crisps, like pastry but don't eat it as it's fatty, have maybe 0-2 pasta meals per week. Have egg sandwich for lunch 5 days per week, usually brown bread. Mainly just eat the slim fast bars and the low fat yoghurt. Have a low fat chocolate snack bar 4 times per week and maybe 1 proper chocolate bar. Do eat a bit of fruit and I like salad with chopped egg and a spoonful pasta salad and a couple of slices of garlic bread. Hate milk with a passion - makes me think of vomit!
2 slim fasts and 2 low fat yoghurts give 45g protein, then egg sandwich gives about 15g more, which should be good for nbe. The problem is sugar as although the bars + yoghurt is only 566 calories but it's 40g sugar! Also 2 slim fasts contain approx 40g soy!!
Looking at the back of the yoghurt packet it says guideline daily amounts for women:
Calories - 2000
Protein - 45g
Carbs - 230g
Sugar - 90g
Fat - 70g
Saturates - 20g
(The back of the low fat crisps confirms this)
Now if I'm trying to stick to 1000 calories do I just halve everything and keep the protein the same which will give me 1080?
Don't really know how many calories I need to consume, last time I got weighed I'd lost about 8 lbs unexpectedly and don't want to lose loads more accidentally. What about blood sugar lowering herbs?
August 28 2007 at 6:02 PM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
I've been reading on the internet and understand that androgen secretion is stimulated by insulin secretion and the insulin level rises to deal with the sugar intake. I've been looking at buying propecia (finasteride) on the net which blocks the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT. - Is it the testosterone or just the DHT we have to reduce?
Can someone please clarify the mechanism by which increased sugar consumption leads to turning into a man? Is it actually testosterone or DHT that causes the prolems?
SP also stops testosterone turning to DHT and this doctor recommends 320mg daily:
http://www.drbriffa.com/blog/2007/02/21/...iry-women/
Alternatively Dianette BCP contains cyproterone acetate, which is an antiandrogen that acts by blocking androgen receptors to prevent the action of testosterone AND DHT and as it is a bcp it also increase the levels of circulating SHBG (sex hormone binging globulin), causing more of the excess testosterone to become converted into its bound and inactive form - what is the inactive form?.
In terms of testosterone blocking nettle's a diuretic (may interfere with Brava), SP may cause cellulite and pygeum reduces prolactin so think I may be better with the meds?
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 28 2007, 7:19 PM
p.s. in what way does increased testosterone/DHT inhibit nbe? Does it bind to eostrogen receptors due to similar molecule?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 5:49 PM
Testosterone is the less active form of the hormone, the storage form, and DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the active form, which is a lot mor potent. DHT executes the majority of actions of testosterone. My guess would be that preventing testosterone to convert to DHT would be the most effective way of getting rid of it.
I wouldn't say that increased shuggar consumption lead to turning into a man. :p There is however a corelation or a regulative loop between insulin and testosterone - insulin stimulates the action of testosterone, so it would be advisable for us to eat in a way that doesn't allow our insuline levels to soar, like cutting out table shuggar and refined white flour, eating low glychemic index foods, and if eating sweets, just a little at once.
Now, the effects of testosterone that are relevant for our NBE: testosterone blocks estrogen, and estrogen blocks testosterone. Testosterone, citing my text book now - supresses mammary gland development. Testosterone also raises LDL (bad cholsterol) and lowers HDL (good cholesterol) and promotes storage of fat in the lower areas of body, especially abdomen.
The later I found particulary interesting, cause this means that having that stubborn belly might be another sign of high testosterone, which we didn't take into consideration before.
Testosterone increases production of sebum by sabacceous glands and is the direct cause of acne.
Now, I also googled testosterone and prolactin cause I had a hunch that there could be a correlation between these two as well and I found one study that showed that testosterone did indeed inhibit secretion of prolactin. This study however wasn't done on humans but on chickens lol.
That is correct about SP, it pervents testosterone from converting into DHT, and nettle root has the same effect, without the risk of weight gain that SP has.
I'm quite certain that I have too high testosterone levels and would also be interested in that blocker, could you tell me more about it? Can it really be bought without a perscription? I'm a bit worried about messing with hormones too much, particulary testosterone, cause I experienced several times that after inhibiting it with some method, when I stop that method the state becomes even worse than it was at the beginning.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Aug 29, 2007 5:52 PM
Cynthia
(Login Baste4562)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 6:03 PM
Ok, so where do diabetics stand in all of this? They don't produce insulin.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Diabetics
August 29 2007, 6:13 PM
They don't but they're either taking insulin, diet control so less sugar or using metformin which prevents other sugars e.g. lactose from turning into glucose, increases sensitivity to insulin (not sure if this would mean that it has an increased effect on testosterone too) and decreases absorption of glucose in the intestine.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 6:28 PM
Moon,
Truthfully what I am looking for is something that stops sugar turning into DHT so that I can continue to enjoy my food and something to reduce the DHT I already have. The hairyness and skin seemed to get worse between ages 22-25. Interestingly my skin is dry but spotty and being on the pill levonogestrel + estradiol (no andgrogen blocker) fixed it in a month. Also my pms was getting worse and worse, my period pains were getting to the point where I had it a week before, during and a few days mid cycle with random cramps in between. Also had knee and back pains. Again the pill fixed all this in weeks. Other women in my family aren't exactly top heavy but more balanced and less pear shaped than I am and on my dad's side are large with big boobs and bum. I would easily believe that my lack of protein and too much carbs during puberty stunted boob growth.
Not sure if you're supposed to use propecia without a prescription but you can get hold of it from lots of sources (it's supposed to be for male pattern balding!). Actually I do have a lot of hair loss but doesn't look thin so and is very long so maybe that's normal. Personally I would prefer to take flutamide but not seen that to buy. All of these things you need to stop if you want to become pregnant as they can damage the genitals of a male foetus. Also although lots of sources (and some other pco / hirsutism forums) describe their use to combat hirsutism / pco / acne they are not actually licensed for those uses so that's why it says contrindicated in women. Have a look on google. Main thing for me is not to be diuretic as it will mess with Brava. Also all these things can be bad for the liver so technically you're supposed to have LFT every 3 months I think. You say you felt worse after you came off antiandrogen? Why did you come off? I'm not sure if we wouldn't be better trying dianette (aka diane) first as cyproterone is also advised for hirsutism / pco - seems like less side effects.
In trying to eat more protein without getting fat again (I don't have the stubborn belly but I find spare tyre loss and boob loss closely related) I have probably reduced my carb intake in terms of less pasta and potato but still eat a sandwich every day and usually some sort of low fat crisps / low fat chocolate bar and then there's the addictive yoghurts...just don't think I can cut sugar...sorry this has turned into a novel!
Louise
(no login)
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 6:52 PM
Also my husband is not losing any hair but he went grey in his 30s and he says this means he has high testosterone...he constantly drinks tea with 2-3 sugars and eats loads of chocolate and a packet of chocolate biscuits every night...does the same sugar testosterone thing work for men? (He's not fat either so it must be going somewhere!)
Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 7:20 PM
High testerone in men does lead to alot of baldness and unforuately heart disease, usually a serious heart attack. Men with with high testerone levels should take precautions and have annual check up starting late thirties, early forties.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 7:29 PM
That's interesting as his father died of a sudden heart attack age 59, I'll tell him he's old and he needs a check up! A few slim men I know who eat fatty food have high blood cholesterol rather than being fat dunno if that's a recognised medical fact.
Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 29 2007, 7:45 PM
Of course it is!!!!!! Lots of things come into play heart problems. Even too much calcium can contribute. It is in his family history, he should take it seriously and get a complete psycical before something bad happens. Heart and stroke are usually carry on from generation to generation. Better safe than sorry, get him to go see his doctor for check up and blood work.
Lisa121
(no login)
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 30 2007, 3:12 PM
Hi Louise, re your husband, it isn't how fat people are but where they store it. The more fat is acumulated around the inner organs the higher the risk or heart disease etc. People can be very slim and have that wihtout any obvious outer signs. He should get checked out regularly and reduce the crap he is eating and start exercising regularly to prevent getting a problem with his carcio vascular system.
Especially with his dad having died of a heart attack he has a predisposition for heart disease so he should really watch himself.
Moon and Louise, can I just ask why you want to take these drugs when you could just take nettle root or something similar instead? I just hate all this artificial stuff, I never felt that comfortable being on the pill and try and take herbal medicine whenever I can avoid the other stuff. Things that damage your liver and have other rubbish side effects just make me weary.
However, I am interested how you get on if you start that stuff, so please keep me updated if you guys don't mind, or if you find anything else that helps you, I will do the same.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
August 30 2007, 3:36 PM
Hi Lisa,
It's v hard for me to be preachy about diet when I've eaten badly for since I was old enough to go to the sweet shop on my own! I'll try to get him a medical when he's in one country long enough. The last few months is the first time I've been interested in nutrition and that is for boob-sake not health. I come from a long line of people who've drank, smoked and eaten whatever they felt like and lived till their 90s and I'm really not health conscious just vain! I'm not doing nbe because it's healthy / natural / holistic etc I don't think I could bring mysef to have implants because I'm religious and I think you'd have a lot of explaining to do if you died on the table for the sake of vanity. Also I'd be scared they look / feel nasty or there may be complications so I'd end up small and badly scarred.
The reason I'm interested in meds is that surely they are more likely to be effective, if nothing else against the new male body hair I keep finding which totally disgusts me. I really feel like I need M2F chemical sex change and it's starting to get me down. Also the doses and side effects are better documented so at least I know what I'm letting myself in for. The pill has worked wonders for me, probably the best medicine I've ever taken and that doesnn't even block androgens so I'm fantasising about what could be possible. I am vaguely concerned about the liver which is why I'd rather have medical supervision but private's so expensive and NHS is so slow. Surely your liver could take it for a few months and if after that you weren't growing it'd be better to try something else. Just don't want to be taking WU for ever and ever only to have it blocked by testosterone.
I need something so strong I can eat all the sugar I like!
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee)
Thanks for the info
September 1 2007, 9:56 AM
Thanks this is very helpful.
Good info on androgen action.
I have the same concerns as you on health issues and drugs.
Is that Dianette BCP,something in Great Britain availability?
and I wonder what an equivalent drug in US would be?
I'll do a search and find out about it.
If I cant find answers then I'll come back to this thread and ask someone.
I did notice that it contains the same ingredient as Androcur(cypri...)
Cheers!
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee)
No need to respond on that...
September 1 2007, 10:30 AM
No need to respond..I just saw Louise's post about this...duh...
it answered my question as to where to look.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
September 1 2007, 11:41 AM
Louise, personally I think, I'm afraid, that ther aren't very many shortcuts in NBE. I'm not convinced that taking an androgen blocker would fix the problem if you kept eating a high carb diet - your insulin would still be high, and you may develop insuline resistence, which promotes fat storage everywhere but in the boobs, and insulin has a bunch on inhibiting actions on sex hormones and overall metabolism. It is very likely that you have a bit of insulin resistence already, if you had a high carb diet while growing up. But you have dome a lot about your diet allready so that's great. Some advice on diet I can come up with - eat wholewheat bread with seeds, instead of white bread from refined flour. You may not like the taste from the beginning, but you get used to it, I started to like that bread a lot mor than white. Eat wholewheat cookies - they are actually delicious! Really, I love them. I still spoil myself with some real pastry from time to time, but I try not to have to much at once. Drink a lot of milk - like when you are hungry between the meals, and you know you shouldn't eat. It contains proteins, which is exactly what we need. It also contains some fats, which are very important actually - the presence of fats in the blood is one of the most important signals to the satiety center in the brain that stops hunger. And it's liquid, it contains a lot of water, which fills your stomach and also stops hunger. A high carb and low protein meal releases even more insulin, so you should eat mixed meals, always some protein with it too. Eat low glychemic index foods (you can google that for moe detail), but fo example, brown rice and brown spaghetty are perfectly ok. And again, I swear, they taste great once you get used to them. :p
Lisa - I am/was considering anandrogen blocking drug because nettle root unfortunately doesn't do all the trick for me. It does help greately, but it doesn't do away with my excess androgen symptoms entirely, by far. I think I have really very high androgens.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
September 1 2007, 11:48 AM
Oh, and there is one more thing I was going to say for a low carb diet - if you buy products for diabetics / weight loss, products with less calories, don't buy anything which contains fructose! Frustose is often used as an alternative sweetener to glucose because it contains less calories, but this is actually a big misconception. While fructose does contain less calories as glucose, for some not understood reasons it actually shifts metablosm into a direction that promotes storage of fats in peripheral tissues. Experiments on rats have been performed and the rats fed with fructose became much fatter han the rats fed with glucose.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Sep 1, 2007 11:50 AM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Boring diet info...
September 1 2007, 8:55 PM
That's v interesting about fructose - what about actual fruit / juices? Any ideas about sorbitol / other polyols? I know they have laxative effects in high amounts as my friend found out from eating a whole box of breathmints! Now my first response to your info about sugar in the diet would be well there's always metformin! Exciting side effects such as diarhoea (57%), nausea and vomiting (25%) make me a bit wary, but cutting sugar is sooooo depressing!
My diet: - Not as bad as I thought
I do like rye bread, particularly toasted with butter and honey (but crusty white's nicer) have maybe 4 slices of toast per week, hardly ever eat cakes / biscuits, love potatoes but can't remember the last time I had them other than as crisps, like pastry but don't eat it as it's fatty, have maybe 0-2 pasta meals per week. Have egg sandwich for lunch 5 days per week, usually brown bread. Mainly just eat the slim fast bars and the low fat yoghurt. Have a low fat chocolate snack bar 4 times per week and maybe 1 proper chocolate bar. Do eat a bit of fruit and I like salad with chopped egg and a spoonful pasta salad and a couple of slices of garlic bread. Hate milk with a passion - makes me think of vomit!
2 slim fasts and 2 low fat yoghurts give 45g protein, then egg sandwich gives about 15g more, which should be good for nbe. The problem is sugar as although the bars + yoghurt is only 566 calories but it's 40g sugar! Also 2 slim fasts contain approx 40g soy!!
Looking at the back of the yoghurt packet it says guideline daily amounts for women:
Calories - 2000
Protein - 45g
Carbs - 230g
Sugar - 90g
Fat - 70g
Saturates - 20g
(The back of the low fat crisps confirms this)
Now if I'm trying to stick to 1000 calories do I just halve everything and keep the protein the same which will give me 1080?
Don't really know how many calories I need to consume, last time I got weighed I'd lost about 8 lbs unexpectedly and don't want to lose loads more accidentally. What about blood sugar lowering herbs?
