[Chastity56]

Hi everyone,


I have recently done a hormone test and I now have the results. I’d like to get some help interpreting them and how it should impact my current NBE program.


The test was done on the 6th day of my cycle.


My program consisted of the following up to that point:


2 Fenugreek 50% sapponin 500mg
1 Saw Pametto extract 320mg
1 GABA
1/8 ts of Progesterone Cream


The results of the test are:


Serum albumin level - 50 g/L
Serum testosterone level - 1.5 nmol/L
Serum sex hormone binding globuling level - 29 nmol/L
Serum free testosterone level - 27 pmol/L

Serum LH level - 6.2 iu/L
Serum follicle stimulating hormone level - 6.3 iu/L

Serum oestradiol level - 105 pmol/L
Serum progesterone level - 0.4 nmol/L

Serum free T4 level - 16.1 pmol/L
Serum TSH level - 2.10 mu/L


I feel like I should have higher progesterone because of the cream, but otherwise they look like normal results but not sure how to best interpret them.

I know my current program is very simple, the idea is too start low and increase/complete the program until a successful balance is met. Hence the test, to know in which direction I need to take things.
Currently, I haven't had any positive reaction, but I will adjust and stay positive! 

Any help or advice would be appreciated.   

[surferjoe2007]

Progesterone seems low.  It would be better to test it on 2nd half of cycle to be sure.  Estrogen seems really low, unless I'm reading that wrong.  LH I think is low end of normal, FSH seems normal.  

You could continue the program while also adding a phytoestrogen such as PM, hops or flax seed.  DHEA may help too since you seem to be making barely enough FSH and LH, but not enough estrogen and progesterone.  Only add a little bit if it's PM or hops, to keep things mild for now.  100 mg PM or 600-1,200 mg hops.  Or 200 mg PM if cycled.

There are also nutritional tips in my sig thread which should help quite a lot with issues like this.  Such as the program with the nutritional mix (the nuts and so on).  Or changing your diet over to primarily whole grains and the list of healthy foods near the end.  I'm sure your body would fix itself if it could, but it can't.  So I think simply adding a bunch of a phytoestrogen and PC to address the low E and P will only lead to other trouble as you overload your body.  Get good nutrition and continue with your same mild program, plus just a little bit of a phytosterogen due to low E. That should be a good start.  You may need to ease into the healthy foods as you get used to them.

[Chastity56]

Thank you so much for your response Surferjoe!
I am actually following your spirulina program and have been on it for 23days now.

My stats are as follow:
5’2”
53kg
31yo
34AA

I did a second hormone test on the 21st day of my cycle but could only get progesterone and estrogen levels tested. If the rest are vital, I can buy a finger prick test. 
I had unfortunately ramped up the program after the first test before seeking advice, but I can adjust things down if you recommend it. 

What I am taking now and for the day 21 test:
3x 500mg, 50% saponin Fenugreek
3x Saw Palmetto extract 320mg
1x PM 100mg (50mg dim) (Is before bed the best time to take PM?)
1/4tsp PC cream spread over 3 times over the course of a day.
1x GABA Before bed
1x Borage Oil before bed
I haven’t had any signs or sensations of growth and the measuring tape stays the same.

The results of day 21 test were:
Estrogen:
 268pmol/L day 21 [45.0 – 854.0]
 up from 105pmol/L day 6
Progesterone: 
26.1nmol/L day 21 [5.8 – 75.9]
 up from 0.4nmol/L day 6

Regarding what you responded above, how much DHEA supplement do you recommend? 10/25/50/100mg? 
I have found a 500mg USP progesterone cream, would it be better than the 20mg per pump I currently have? Also, where should I apply the PC for best results?

Don’t know if it could be useful, but I did NBE once before in 2010. I grew 1 inch in 1 month and continued without results for 3 months after that, stopped because I started noticing substantial hair loss. My program then was primarily:
1000mg wild yam x3
Saw palmetto 500mg x3
Fenugreek 600mg x3
Boobybatter from fenugreek seed powder twice a day.
I did experience growth pain and tingling during this time.

[surferjoe2007]

100 mg is good for DHEA.  Note that it also raises testosterone and yours is a near the high end of normal.  You may want up to 10g spearmint on top of the saw palmetto extract to further lower testosterone.

The amounts of what you are using aren't super high and you'll probably be ok.  If you run into trouble you can take out the PM and PC.  Or if you want to save money you could do nutrition for a while and add in the herbs 2+ months from now when they'll probably be more effective.

It doesn't really matter where you apply PC.  Any soft spot listed on the label is fine.  500 mg PC is crazy.  It probably says 500 mg per oz. not 500 mg per dose.  Almost all PC brands use 500 mg PC per oz. which is about 20 mg per 1/4 tsp.

The spirulina mix is nice.  You may want some beano to help digest the rice bran, especially if it gives you gas.

[Chastity56]

Hey Surferjoe, 


Thanks for responding! 

Do you think I should be continuously using Progesterone Cream? I have read in multiple placesthat it should only be used in last two weeks (max) of the cycle, in order to open the estrogen receptors before the new cycle. 

You say the Spirulina mix should be taken twice a day, I presume this is for nutrient absorption? How much time should there be in-between each intake?

Apart from the things you mentioned before, would you suggest any further changes in my current program? I was expecting to feel some activity in my breast by now, considering that in my first NBE attempt, I felt sensation as soon as day 5, after ramping up the fenugreek. I was hoping to grow rapidly (of course!). Your program and advices, however, seem to encourage a slow and steady approach. How long do you think it would take for me to experience growth by following it?

Thanks for your time and input, it's very valuable.

[surferjoe2007]

Yes progesterone cream is typically only used during the last 2 weeks.  But if you only use 1/8 tsp. a day you may use it all month if you like.  And until you get better nutrition a lower amount may be better to be safe.

Yes the spirulina mix is twice a day for nutrient absorption.  Taking it all once a day would be ok but not ideal.  I would guess at least 8 hours apart is helpful but I don't know exactly.

I am saying to go slow because with A cups, hormone imbalance and so on your body may not be ready.  You may not get anywhere, or grow very little, and give yourself a bunch of trouble.  If you can get to B cups with just nutrition, then you may be able to be more aggressive with the herbs and go for rapid growth.  While still continuing nutrition too.  I would gradually introduce the spirulina mix just so your stomach can get used to it, but after that I wouldn't worry about using the full amount or even a little extra and/or healthy foods on top of that.  After 2-4 months your health should be at least partway better and then you can use more herbs.  Then I think you could see 1/2 cup to a cup in a month from herbs, on top of whatever you get just from the nutrition.

Massage and pumping are always safe (besides injury sometimes if you're careless) but they likewise might not be very effective before good nutrition.

[Chastity56]

Thank you for clearing things up regarding progesterone cream and spirulina mix. 

I should theoretically just be able to grow on the spirulina mix and the diet you suggest? I thought the diet was a complement to a low-intensity herb base program (fenugreek, etc) but something that can trigger growth in itself. Regarding the diet, are mussels a good substitute for oysters? I've compared their nutrient values and it seems like it would but what's your opinion? I have great difficulty stomaching more than 5 raw oysters at a time. 

Because my previous NBE experience focused on potent supplements and totally neglected diet (expect for chicken feet soup), this is quite unexpected information. Granted I was seven years younger, so my growth hormones was probably higher. 

I have been taking supplements for 6 weeks now, in addition to the diet, and while I haven't had the expected positive effects (no growth but better skin) I haven't any negative ones either (mood, shorter/longer cycle, those kind of things). Do you think it is because my body wasn't ready for it, as you imply? Or because I haven't found the right hormonal balance, or don't have enough hormones, as I leaning toward? My reflex would be to ramp up, as I am way below the dosage of some ladies here. My second is to introduce more things, like anti-androgen, pro-aromatase, following the test results indicating relatively low estrogen/progesterone and relatively high testosterone. I guess what I am asking is, do you think I should I stop those supplements entirely? Or adjust them?

[surferjoe2007]

I think AA cup is unusual and probably the result of hormone imbalance.  Nutrition would correct that and you could grow with or without herbs.  I believe tibetan princess quickly grew half a cup that way even though she started at B cup.  Some who switched to HCLF vegan diets grew 2-3 cup sizes after several months.  On the flipside just herbs without nutrition is less likely to work for you.  Nutrition provides your body the ability to grow, herbs only tell it to grow.  So with nutrition it will grow to a certain point that is your real healthy normal and then stop.  Perhaps D cup eventually, or who knows which size.  With herbs your body will try to grow but it may or may not be able to.  With both you will get maximum and fastest growth, but it may take 2-4 months or more before enough nutrition is built up and you respond better to the herbs.

Yes when you were younger you were probably healthier too.

You probably aren't getting negative effects thanks to the low amount yes.  You should go for the nutrition regardless.  As for the herbs you could try more and see what happens.  Either you'll grow more, or you'll get more negative effects, or both.  If you don't grow more or if you get negative effects, you can always go back down and try again later after a bit more nutrition.  Just be careful with PM and PC because they could cause an imbalance if you guess wrong on the amounts and inhibit growth even if you aren't getting any negatives.  I'd increase everything else first and/or add other things first.  Then once you finally grow a little then start gradually messing with more PM and/or PC.  More of whichever you seem to respond to better.

Anti-androgens are usually pretty safe.  You could add one regardless if you like.  Usually the only possible negative is low androgens, which can hurt libido.  So if you overdo it you can always step back, but this is rare.