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the newbies thread
October 7 2006 at 4:20 AM 4pomegranate  (Login 4pomegranate)

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-This is an old thread that was started by Lisa121 in the main forum. It's an essential read for any newbie, and it's stuffed with valuable information.-



Lisa
(Login Lisa121)
EVE MEMBERS Thread for Newbies, all about NBE March 23 2006, 4:55 PM

I thought I would start this so that Newbies can read up on information and we can just direct them here. If we just all add everything we know about NBE this may help reduce the questions and makes it easier for all.

I found a post from Steph that may be a good starting point, I hope she doesn't mind me copying it.

The Basics of NBE
March 1 2006 at 6:59 AM Steph (no login)
________________________________________
Main BE herbs: Saw Palmetto(SP),Fenugreek,Fennel,Wild Yam(WY),Red Clover(RC),Hops,Pueara Mirifica(PM)and GLA oil(Borage,Starflower or EPO).Most popular forum BE methods are Individual herbs(single herbs)combined with massage and heat(uasually with a homemade or brand name BE topical cream).The average BE routine lasts about 9 months to acheive best results.U should START on lower doses so u can keep SLOWLY increasing for best results and starting TOO high can actually hinder growth.U can normally expect between 1 half and 2 inches of growth give or take.The most popular STARTER herbs are Fenugreek,SP and a GLA oil,the KEY to BE is finding the RIGHT herbs at the RIGHT doses for YOU and what works for 1 girl may NOT work for u. The advice u get from members is STRICTLY opinion only and if u have any serious concerns u should consult an herbalist.Best Wishes!



Lisa
(Login Lisa121)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE March 23 2006, 4:59 PM

Dosages for Fenugreek and breast size usually are 1800 mg to 2400 mg for AAA-B cups and higher dosages of up to 3000mg for C cups and bigger.
Saw Palmetto is recommended for everyone smaller than a B cup and might not be necessary if your boobs are bigger than this.
Saw Palmetto doses in extract form range from 160mg to 320mg, I am not sure about the berries but would guess that taking up to 3000mg a day is okay, but a lower dose of 500mg to 2000 may well be enough.
Saw Palmetto is used to reduce elevated testosterone levels so if you have an androgen dominance you should incorporate it into your routine and a higher dose may be possible to take for that as well.
Always try the lower doses first for a month or two and if you experience tingles, breast tenderness or breast growth stick to it. If you don't notice anything within a month or two, up your dose by maybe one pill and see if you notice any changes with that.
For more information and guidance you can look at the personal programs page of this forum and there is also plenty of information in the "has anyone tried herbs individually" thread which you can search for on this forum.
The flat to fab book has also been recommended by members such as Sunset, the book gives lots of information on single herbs and NBE.



Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Great Idea! March 23 2006, 5:34 PM

hello, and welcome all newbies! I hope you all learn lots, make friends, share ideas and opinions and please feel free to ask any questions you may have. The ladies here work very hard and we are all passionate in increasing our breast sizes and giving each other support, confidence, laughter , thoughts and ideas. I hope you all have wonderful success with NBE!
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You might as well call me the "massage" Spammer of the board..hehehe, cause I always remind everyone how important it is and I love to talk about how I discovered by accident that cocoa butter really helped "plump" me up! I swear by it now and use it all the time for massage. There are other great things to use as well, but for me this will be a must have keeper for all times!
I just wanted to give you all 1 example of a massage you could do called the
"CHI MASSAGE" Here is how you do it:
*****************************************************************************

CHI MASSAGE 360 ROTATIONS 2 X's A DAY

1. mix up your batter, lotion or oil or whatever you will be using and lather it on your breast. (I find its easier to massage one breast at a time, but if your arms can handle doing both at a time it would probably better stimulate that way-but it does work doing one at a time too)

2. After you lather on the batter take your hand and place it over the breast -fingers wide apart and your nipple under your palm. Try to cover as MUCH of your breasts as possible this way.(some find it easier to place nipple between fingers, so that would work also)

3. Once you have placed your hands on breasts-press in just slightly-not to hard just a little bit. (this ensures you move your breast--NOT just your hand over the breast)

4. Next-move your hand and breasts in an UPWARD and INWARD CIRCULAR motion.
(Be sure you are moving your boob around-not just your hand around)
Your should move them INWARDS towards the MIDDLE of your chest NOT outwards
(outward massageing of the breast "may" DECREASE the size of them..we DONT want that!..lol)

5. You should really try to do massages 2 times a day at 360 rotations EACH time.

*WHY MASSAGE?*

Well massage is important in any NBE routine because it helps circulation. You want blood to flow good through the boobies to encourage they are not only able to grow new cells but it keeps them healthy and may help the herbs be delivered there faster and more efficently. It also stimulates them and "wakes" them up to react better to the herbs.

NEVER DO A DRY MASSAGE! ALWAYS USE A LOTION OR OIL!

Massage can definatly make you plumper, fuller looking and rounder. Also it can make the skin so much more softer there. I dont know if massage alone has ever made anyone grow in cup size...but plumpness and fuller rounder boobies are very nice, and the herbs can help with the actual cup size growth. So dont EVER underestimate the power of MASSAGE!...lol




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS WONDERFULL advice for ALL of us! March 23 2006, 6:23 PM

1) Patience is essential.
This is not an overnight process by any means. All those "magical" pills the websites are trying to sell you are lying. I am not saying they do not work, I'm saying nothing is going to make you "grow" breasts in a few weeks. They might make them temporarily swell, but I can almost guarantee you that anything immediate is not going to be permanent. I mean, be realistic. How could it, really? I am not being negative or trying to discourage anyone, because I do believe achieving larger breasts through herbs is possible from the results that I am slowly seeing. And I am speaking from experience because I tried two BE pills before going w/individual herbs (Breast Gain Plus and Voluptas). With the BGP I saw and felt good results in a few weeks, but it was only temporary.

2) Massage.
I had been slacking on my massaging for weeks until I finally decided to get going on it. And like, the next day I noticed a huge difference. I know it seems like nothing is happening when you do it, and it even feels wierd but I think increasing blood flow to the area definitely is a good thing.

3) Positive thoughts.
Seriously. Quit "wanting" larger breasts and start thinking of yourself as if you're already growing larger breasts. Tell yourself while you are doing your massaging that you can feel them growing, and that you know it's working. I am not the only one who has said this. The power of your thoughts has been shown to work in many areas, including breast enhancement. Quit focusing on how small your breasts are and start looking to the future. Get excited every day and don't let those negative thoughts take over






SugarQ
(Login SugarQ) Sometimes our biggest breast growing tool is our brain March 23 2006, 8:42 PM

remotehypnosis.com has a downloadable mp3 for NBE and its free but you are asked to leave a donation if you can. many other recordings can run you anywhere from 5-25 bucks so check it out. also check out ebay for some good but inexpensive recordings.

this i look from a discussion on the beboard....

princess says: "I am skeptical if hypnosis for BE really works or not, I find it hard to believe that just because "someone" is talking to you, that your boobs will grow.
If it does work, how much percentage would you give it for causing your boobs to grow. aside from the rest of your "herbs and pills"??
Thank Ya "


SugarQ replies: "i find it more skeptical that someone can take a herbal pill and get growth. the success rate with herbs isn't impressive. especially the prearranged formulas chuck full of 10 or 20 different herbs.

hypnosis has long history as being able to have an effect the body. there are even cases like the ice cube and blisters or the women that broke out in sores and started bleeding on her forehead because she was hypnotized to believe she wore a crown of thorns on her head. stigmata cases are believed to have a link with the mind causing the body to break out in sores on the hand. this even goes beyond just the religion of Christianity. even Muslim faith has related cases.

hypnosis generally works on the principal there is a part of you mind that regulates stuff you don't voluntarily have control over and forcing it to do what you want. like for instance blinking. you normally don't think about blinking every time you do it. but you can control it (staring contest) if you put in the effort and want to do it(you are consciously thinking about it). another example is heart rate. you don't think about it. your body generally regulates your heart beat according to what it needs (when you run your heart beats faster then if you are sitting down and relaxing). but during time when you heart is racing you can try to control it by relaxing and trying to be calm. its the same thing you are trying to do with your breasts through hypnosis.you normally dont think about what hormones to release and when to release them. your brain and your body will do that on its own without you thinking about it. we are trying to find a way to trigger breast enlargement with the brain by talking to the subconciouse. some women dont need hypnosis to do this. if you read flat 2 fab lucille talks about an experiment where women used visualization to cause NBE and according to the book 50% success rate was seen. so just taking the time to pay attention to your breasts may be enough for some to experience growth.

hypnosis forces your mind and body to pay more attention to your breasts. they give suggestions, like the "voice "tells you that you are feeling tingles or tension in the breast and you imagine it. you imagine what it feels like. and maybe your start actually start feeling these sensations and maybe unknowingly your body is sending more blood to your breasts and increases circulation( remember that i said that on some level we may have control of our heart rate. we may also have control over where the blood goes) to get you to feel these sensations and increase nutrients and hormones that get into the breasts. and possibly the imagined sensations may force your brain to release hormones that may have an effect on breast enlargement. or the suggestions try to take you back to a time when you were a teen and should have started growing. the mind may have memory of what hormones and stuff were swirling around during that time so when the suggestions tell you to go back to your teens which may trigger memories and the body may start reenacting what was happening during that time. hypnosis for BE works on so many levels other then just stimulating growth. it also gives you positive messages to keep you focused on your goals and helps you believe in what you are doing. if you don't believe in NBE and the method you chose then you wont do as well as someone who believes and has faith. hypnosis helps to take away mental blocks that prevent you from growing.

the closest idea on how this thing works in real life is the case where a woman thinks she is pregnant (but really she isn't). she begins to gain weight and her belly extends. her breasts enlarge and starts producing colostrum, her period stops etc. there is no medical reason for her to have this reaction and she isn't on any medication but because she believed she was pregnant her mind had an effect on her body that caused it to develop these symptoms. of cause this is rare and usually people who respond to suggestions are better at being hypnotized but it can and does happen. it may happen more for people who are insanely desperate (for or against it happening). now a good hypnotist isn't going to say " your breast are growing big and large etc..." they are going to suggest sensations and imagery to get you to have the mind set of a women with larger breasts. make you imagine yourself with larger breasts. feel a difference in your breast size (which may not immediately be there ) . feel sensations like sore nipples and swollen, hot breasts. maybe a sucking sensation or a itchy or tingly sensation. etc... a response to hypnosis may take several months of daily frequent listening. so don't expect to come out of your first hypnosis session with larger breasts automatically.

so far hypnosis success cases isn't better then herbs or any internal pill or hormone therapy but there is a big possibility it could work. its worth a try. hypnosis Cd's are cheaper then buying a 1 year supply of pills and herbs and you can use it for as long as you would like. right now hypnosis is a back up to a routine. you do it in combination with other NBE methods. just like massaging or taking herbs or BO etc.

its not a matter of whether it does work. but can it work? is there any link to proven sciences that can say if it can work? there are many links that would suggest hypnosis may work for nbe. so the potential is there. but right now there isn't a trend that definitively proves it works. its just something anyone that is serious about NBE should consider doing and hope that every little bit helps. just like with herbs. there is nothing that proves it works but members here can cite other related medical occurrences and experiments that suggest there is good enough potential to give herbs a try. and hypnosis doesn't have to cost anything if you are running short on cash. you can download some hypnosis Mp3 online or you can ask a member here to burn you a copy. so there really isn't a good enough excuse not to give hypnosis a fair try. even if you are not good at sitting still for long or fall a sleep during the session you may still benefit from what little you can get out of it.

someone brought an article of this program at a gym for natural breast enhancement where members massage their breasts and the instructor gives hypnotic suggestions out loud to the women. its no surprise to me that a program like that would be around. and women were reporting success. one of the oldest wife's tale was if you talk to your breasts it will grow. lol. IT ACTUALLY MAY WORK."





SugarQ
(Login SugarQ) past BE 101 thread March 23 2006, 8:58 PM

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/me...127413606/



flowergurl
(no login) breast talk forum March 23 2006, 9:07 PM

Hey gurls! If any of you have success, please post it on the Breast Talk forum in the NBE thread. It's so dead there right now.

Flowergurl




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Just how safe are these herbs to take? March 24 2006, 12:20 AM

Are breast enlargement herbs safe?

These herbs are very safe and have been in common use for thousands of years. There are no health warnings of any sort associated with them and they are on the FDA's list of safe foods.

These are plants, not pharmaceutical drugs and their actions are mild. They would be similar in safety to something such as garlic.

They have been found to have many health benefits and are currently under study for controling diabetes, easing the symptoms of PMS and menopause, and preventing breast cancer. They may be a healthy alternative to synthetic hormone replacement therapies.

As with any herb or food there is always the possibility of allergic reactions. These are extremely rare with these herbs. Should you seem to have some sort of problem, you need simply to eliminate one herb at a time until you know which is causing the problem


~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*



vivian
(no login) Massage question March 25 2006, 1:31 PM

Hey sunset! Thanks for all the helpful info you've been posting. Wanted to ask, why can't you just massage without lotion? And do you reccomend any brand of cocoa butter in particular? thanks! =D




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE March 26 2006, 7:12 PM

sorry I just seen your question or I would have gotten to it sooner.
I dont recommend a "dry" massage because 360 rotations with out any base could really irritate the skin. The lotoin/oil would help prevent so much skin on skin friction and help prevent any rashes or redness. It just provides a nice lubrication to work with.

And I just use Suave cocoa butter lotion and vitamin E cream for massage but I hear lots of web sites recommend Palmers brand, so it must be good stuff.

Another lady on here said she bought some "cocoa butter/vitamin E breast firming cream" from WALMART!! SO that would probably be good also.

But as I said -I bought a cheap 3.00 bottle of it, its not "pure" cocoa butter,but I am getting results from just that! SO as long as it contains cocoa butter I think it wouldnt really matter the brand truthfully.

And if you do buy pure 100% cocoa butter you can melt it down at very low heat and apply it that way too.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Maximum daily dosages March 26 2006, 7:24 PM

these are the only Maximum dosage amounts I know about, so I thought I would post them:

RED CLOVER-6 Caps-(2,100-2,250mg) No more
FENUGREEK-6 Caps-(3,600-3,720mg) No more
SAW PALMETTO-9 Caps-(4,860-5,400mg) No More

*STOP increasing dosages AS SOON AS you notice growing pains or increased fullness!*

The key is to take as few as possiale and STILL get growth.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Herb Guidlines March 26 2006, 7:28 PM

1. Take herbs every 8 hours or so.
*the idea is to have a steady flow of herbs in your system.

2. Take herbs on an empty stomach, this seems to aid in absorption of the active ingredients.

*if the herbs upset your stomach, then certainly take them with food!*

~take the herbs 1/2 hour BEFORE or 2 hours AFTER eating.
~Allow an hour to pass before drinking soda or coffee.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS do not change routine for at least the first whole month March 26 2006, 7:31 PM

*you should stick with the SAME routine for ALL of cycle 1.

*Dont add herbs or take extra pills~this will not help.

*Be patient for the herbs to kick in and produce results.

~Most women experience tingles-growing pains and soreness within 3-4 weeks and notice breasts getting firmer and looking fuller within 1 month.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS IF NO growing pains AT ALL in 1 whole month March 26 2006, 7:34 PM

*Pump up your program SLOWLY.

*Increase your dosage of each herb by 1 capsule per day untill you notice results (tingles,soreness, pains,fullness-any of those)

*Give your body a week or two before adding any additional herbs.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS The Preperatoin Phase March 26 2006, 7:40 PM

I guess I should have added this first, oh well here it is any how..

*before starting you will want to make sure your body is prepared for the task ahead.(this is where progesterone cream or milk thistle comes in)

*This helps flush your body of excess hormones to ensure your receptors are open and ready.

*Use the progesterone cream with the last 7 days of your current cycle (a week before next period is due)

*Apply 1/2 teaspoon of the prog. cream 2 times a day to inner thighs, wrist,tummy, underneath inside of arms-just be sure to rub it on a different spot each time instead of the same spot everytime.

~MILK THISTLE~
This can be used instead of prog. cream it can be used for 1 or 2 weeks before getting started on herbs.

*Just follow the directions on the bottle if you use this.



~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS OF NBE: March 26 2006, 7:49 PM

1. Mood Swings

~as your hormones adjust, you might feel more emotional than normal.
Sensitivity, anxiety,irritability are all fairly common.

2. Tiredness

~Some women feel tierd when using certain herbs
~Fenugreek is the most common culprit because it has the effect of lowering blood sugar levels.
~If you feel your tierd either lower your dosage of fenugreek or substitute with something else. (fruit can also help)

3. Water retention

~Because phytoestrogens mimic the effects of estrogen,they can lead to water retention. (any diuretic herb can help counteract this-red clover is one exaMPLE)

4. eARLY OR LATE PERIODS

~May come earlier,later,or heavier than normal.
~they should be normal after the body adjusts to the herbs.
~if your period is more than a week late-STOP all herbs.

5. Lactation

~IF lactation occurs you may want to lower fenugreek.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Basic stages of breast growth:What you may experience: March 26 2006, 7:59 PM

1. First you may experience "growing pains"

~Sore breasts or nipples are usually the 1st sign that you are right on track. (NOT everyone gets pains, and some women WILL grow with out ever having pains) They can range from soreness to tingles that last anywhere from a few days to an entire cycle.

2. Next your breasts will look fuller and feel firmer.

~this usually happens a month into it.
~you may feel and look firmer before you see an actuall increase on the tape measure.

3. Your breasts may be swelled before your period.

~DONT BE FOOLED
~measure your growth on day 5 of your period when breasts are naturally at the smallest.

4.Most women are able to increase their breasts by 1/4" to 1/2" PER MONTH!
~It doesnt sound like much but those gains do add up after a few months.

5.Your breasts may slow down growing after a few months.
~the herbs seem to loose their effectivness after about 3 months.
~this is why breaks are important,because our bodies get used to the herbs.

6. Most women require 6 months to 1 year to reach their goal.
~It is possible to get results you desire sooner.
~Commit your self to the long haul to avoid disappointment.

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS What to expect March 26 2006, 8:13 PM

~HAVE REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS~

This requires time and patience!

~Results are rarely as drastic as surgery.
~Most all women experience increased fullness and firmness.
~67% gain AT LEAST a cup size.
~Some LUCKY ladies will gain as much as 3 cup sizes, this is the EXCEPTOIN NOT THE RULE.

Factors that can impact your results:
1. Body weight
2.hormones
3.age

BODY WEIGHT
There are 2 reasons why body fat is essential for BE:

1.The conversion of testosterone into estrogen takes place in the fatty tissue.

2.Your breasts consist of a certain amount of fat.

~puberty is triggered when a girls body accumulates at least 20%-22% of body fat.

~You need to have enough body fat to trigger your breasts to grow again.

~you should have at least a body mass of 19 for NBE to work.

YOUR HORMONES

~breast enlargement is all about hormones. Your hormones need to be as balanced as possible.

*excess estrogen is a very common hormonal imbalance in women in thier 30's and 40's.

WAYS TO ALSO HELP BALANCE HORMONES
1. Avoid toxins and second hand hormones.
2. Use Prog. cream for 2 weeks during breaks.
3. Use milk thistle as often as needed for detox puposes.
BRING TESTOSTERONE DOWN BY:
1.cutting down on carbs
2.Keep stress undercontrol
3. Increase Saw Palmetto

AGE
AGE can play a role in determining results if you are over age 30
2 factors can impact results:
1.growth hormones have declined
2. glands have begun to atrophy.

(all the info in the above 2 threads plus this one where obtained from the F2F book)

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*



vivian
(Login vivi13) Progesterone Cream? March 27 2006, 12:55 PM

What does the cream do, and will NBE still work without it? Thanks =)




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Vivian RE: Progesterone cream March 27 2006, 5:50 PM

what is progesterone cream?
it is used in NBE to open up receptors and make sure they are able to accept phytoestrogens. If the receptors are shut down-breast growth is said to be a no go. Is that true? well I dont have proof-thats just what I have read.

Progesterone balances the effects of excess estrogen and prepares your body for breast enlagement.

Using it before you start a routine will ensure your receptors will be ready to respond once you get started.

Progesterone cream can be used also during breaks to keep hormones balanced.

Prog. cream flushes the body of excess hormones.

*So you can think of it like this:
Pretend for example you have to much estrogen. And think of the receptor sites looking like a honey comb, with 6 little holes in it.
Now pretend that all 6 holes are filled up with estrogen. You only need 3 of those holes filled up with estrogen (pretend) and the other 3 holes that are filled up are EXCESS unneeded estrogen or second hand toxins-but they binded in there and now all 6 holes of that receptor site are filled and there is no room for any more.

Well-by using the prog. cream you KEEP the estrogen you DO need but it discards (gets rid of) the other 3 that you DO NOT NEED.

So now you have a receptor (honeycomb) with 3 full spots and 3 empty spots right? Well now it is OPEN and ready to take on these herbs. The herbs can bind into it and do their job.

If all your receptors are full-no herbs can bind to the receptor sites-so they cant "plug in" and do the job. And thats my "honeycomb" example lol

Ok-now you dont nessisarilly have to use only the cream (I did, but it can be a pain kind of) You can instead use MILK THISTLE. It does the same exact thing you just dont have to rub the cream in you just take it by mouth as many times recommended on the bottle.

If you use progesterone cream you can start using it a week before your period is due and then stop once you recieve your period. You dont want to use it all the time or everyday for a long time. Just before your routine and during breaks from NBE. Just a week before your period.

Now-If you use MILK THISTLE: you can take it up to 2 weeks before your period. you may use it with your other herbs if you like to, or just before beginning and during breaks as well.

I hope this helped you out Vivian, sorry its so long!

~Follow your heart-
Let your spirits lift you-
And then capture your dreams!
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*



vivian
(no login) Thanks sunset March 29 2006, 8:51 AM

You're a sweetheart =) Btw, I saw your massage thread as well, and yay for you! I'm doing the same thing as you are with the massage, and hopefully I'll grow soon too. Prom is in about 1.5 months!!! ahhh!!!

Keep it up, everybody! =)




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS prom March 30 2006, 2:57 AM

ooo-I remember the "prom" days I have you have a wonderful prom and get all the growth you can by then!





Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS How do the herbs work? April 3 2006, 4:11 AM

How Does Natural Herbs Enlarge Breasts?

Breast development begins at puberty, when a young woman's body receives chemical signals from the pituitary gland. These signals orchestrate powerful changes in a young woman's body. Scientific research has concluded that foundational breast tissue growth occurs most efficiently with the balanced presence of estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, prostaglandins, and GF compounds (human growth factor hormones). Along with other complications, improper balances of these hormones lead to poor breast development. At some point after adolescence, the body ceases to produce GF compounds, resulting in a completion of breast tissue growth. Natural herbal combinations stimulate changes in concentration of these hormones, as well as increase the level of GF compounds. This is the reason using natural herbs to enlarge breasts by creating new breast tissue is the safe and satisfying choice.

Methods for Breast Enlargement:

Implant - Breast implant surgery (breast augmentation) is the fastest and most popular method of making breasts larger. However, risks and maintenance can be costly.

Silicone Breast Enhancers - Silicone Breast Enhancers are made of a specially formulated medical quality silicone gel that has the look and feel of natural breast tissue. Again, the risks and maintenance could prove to be very costly.

Herbal Supplements – Herbs offer outstanding benefits versus other modalities while leaving no scars. Although the herbal breast enlargement process may take longer than the couple of hours the surgical procedure would take, it is cost-effective, safe and healthier.



~Keep playin those "records" girls! ~
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS For everyone who asks: "Where Do I START?" April 7 2006, 2:39 AM

The personal programs page will let you see what everyone is doing, and we have an "herb info" page with the most popular NBE herbs listed. What they do for bigger boobs, and side effects/other benifits and more.

If you are an AAA-B cup you should ALWAYS have saw palmetto in your routine.
Fenugreek is a very good one. and fennel does pretty much the same as fenugreek, its just not as potent. So you could pick one of them to use.

And for another one to take-well thats personal chioce really (actually they all are your chioce but Saw Palmetto should be a must unless you are a C cup or more.)

Most girls in my opinion should start with no more than 3 different herbs at first. So I mentioned the Saw palmetto and 1 or the other either fenugreek or fennel. Then you could add hops,wild yam or red clover. (just 1 of those)
(or a different 1 of your choice)

In my opinion you should start out low at maybe 1 of each 3 times a day.
Personally I started my routine on day 1 of my period. Progesterone cream or milk thistle should be used before a routine to "open up" receptors and rid your body of any "excess" hormones, that would allow the herbs to do thier job better. (for more info on milk thistle or prog. cream type it in in the "search" on here and it'll bring up info)

Once you start your herbs you do need to break from them at least 1 month after the 3rd full month of taking them. (some girls break only on day 2 of cycle and day 15-there are MANY diff. ways to break, but just be sure you do it because herbs become less effective when your body becomes "used" to its new routine.

And probably most important of all do breast massage! In my opinion its the quickests most noticable thing you can do. (I do chi massage-again for more info type in chi massage into search-I gave several examples of how to do it.)
Always use a good carrier oil or a good fast absorbing lotion (Cocoa butter works WONDERS!) Check out the info on cocoa butter/vitaminE on the "general resource" page!

You should really try to massage 2 times a day and some girls apply heat after wards to help circulation and mainly to deeper absorb the herbs.
Herbs can be added to the massage "batter" as well.

You should add a good multi vitamin to your routine and EFA's are good too. My personal favorite is EPO (evening primrose oil) It contains omega-6 fatty acids. There is also borage, flax seed oil or fish oil.

And then have a positive attitude and tell yourself it will work!! Best Wishes for bigger boobies

~Keep playin those "records" girls! ~
~Best wishes on a growing journey!~
*Sunset*




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS PHYTOESTROGENS April 28 2006, 6:41 PM

Definition of a Phytoestrogen

What exactly are phytoestrogens, and how can we use them to our benefit in the development of the breasts, as a hormonal balancer for menopausal symptoms, and as a healthy, preventative addition to our diet? Phytoestrogens are also quickly becoming the buzz as natural breast enlargement alternatives, and hormone replacement therapy for women going through menopause.

The word "phytoestrogen" is derived from "phyto", meaning plant, and then "estrogen" is because of their ability to affect estrogenic activity in the body. It is important to know that although phytoestrogens may have some similar actions to estrogens, they are not the same as the true hormonal estrogens that our bodies produce. Phytoestrogens are actually a group of compounds found in plants that influence our own estrogen activity by mimicking it's effects in the female body.

Categories of Phytoestrogens Phytoestrogens are categorized into four main groups and these are then further subdivided. The four groups of phytoestrogens are soy isoflavones, lignans, coumestans and resorcylic acid lactones, though the latter is not a true phytoestrogen.6, 7 The most chemically effective as a phytoestrogen (estrogen-mimicking supplement), and structurally similar to estrogen, are the soy isoflavones. Soy isoflavones are now being touted as a healthy supplement for menopausal and pre-menopausal women for their "healthy estrogen" enhancing abilities.

Now, what about phytoestrogens as a breast enlarging or breast enhancing supplement? There are several products out there marketed as breast enlargement supplements using phytoestrogen technology combined with other natural herbs known for varying degrees of breast enhancing and hormone balancing qualities. The question is, do they work and are they healthy?

The answer to that is two-fold. You should never stay on any supplement like this for more than nine months at a time, as this may become harmful to your health since it is unnatural to sustain higher estrogen activity for such a long period.

However, under the correct usage and when used with proper diet, phytoestrogens can be used, and have been used, successfully to enlarge and enhance breasts, and even to alleviate symptoms of hormonal imbalance, decrease libido and other hormone-related issues common to women - especially premenopausal or menopausal women.

The bottom line is, we are only beginning to understand the benefits that natural phytoestrogens and phytoestrogen-based supplements can have for women, be it for purposes of breast health, breast enhancement, menopause symptoms relief, and hormonal imbalances.

One must be careful in choosing any phytoestrogen product, as they vary greatly in quality and purity standards. Examine the company you are buying from closely. Don't go on price alone - see if they have credible testimonials or a proven track record for success and quality.

This way, you can be sure to reap the full health and beauty benefits of introducing phytoestrogens into your diet!




Katarina
(no login) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE April 28 2006, 7:12 PM

Just thought I'd add, do not wear a bra when you do NBE, it will decrease your growth




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS Good point April 28 2006, 7:17 PM

I'm not that "brave" yet..lol If you DO where one, just where it looser than normal. And NEVER sleep with one on.



Katarina
(no login) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE April 29 2006, 7:48 AM

a sportsbra is ok, as long as it's not real tight



Darisha
(Login Darisha) Soy products May 1 2006, 7:10 AM

If anyone out there is eating, drinking or using any type of soy product including soy oil which may be used in lotions PLEASE PLEASE read this article I found regarding soy products. Go to http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm
Soy can be dangerous especially to pregnant and breastfeeding women, babies and children. It claims that soy as a healthy alternative is a myth. In fact it is the exact opposite. Please read to find out the details.
Darisha




Lisa 121
(Login Lisa121)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 20 2006, 2:52 PM

Bump for our Newbies :-)



Mandy
(Login frankymand) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 20 2006, 4:43 PM

Thanks for all the info. It's really helpful.

I just have one question. A lot of NBE seems to be focussed around the days of your menstrual cycle. I have got the contraceptive implant and don't actually have periods at all.

Is this going to cause problems or is the cycle just used as a gauge?

Thanks Mandy



wsdm
(Login wsdm) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 20 2006, 9:58 PM

bump bumpbump bump bump!



Sunspirit
(Login sunspirit) thank you all of you May 21 2006, 3:08 AM

Hello Ladies i just wanted to thank you all for taking the time to put this thread together for all of us who are new to the forum. the information you're providing us with is great and will be very helpful. Once again, thank you very much for you warm welcome to us to this little group. Best wishes to all of you, and may God bless..........
Love, sunspirit



Arialle
(no login) Hypnosis May 21 2006, 4:04 PM

Hey, I just went to remotehypnosis.com to see if i can d/l the file, and is it right that you can only put it onto a cd if you have quicktime pro? And the only way to get that is to buy it which cost like £20...

I'm not very good with computers... please let me know if this is right. x



Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Bumped for NEWBIES!!! May 23 2006, 11:46 AM

Hope you guys take time to read this.



Persephonee
(Login Persephonee) Don't wear a bra??? May 23 2006, 2:15 PM

Could someone explain how wearing a bra would inhibit growth? I've had 6 kids and one of my main reasons for wanting to try NBE is because I don't even have breasts anymore, only deflated balloons! If I go braless, I'll feel terribly self-conscious. Besides, I was always told that going braless makes them sag. Input, anyone?
Persephonee



Sunspirit
(no login) Advice please May 23 2006, 4:07 PM

Hello everybody;
I decided to start a program with herbs. I've been searching around town for a place where i can buy them but no one seems to know what I'm talking about. could you please let me know where I can find them. i'm espcially interested in finding the saw palmeto and the funugreek (I don't know how to spell this one hopefully you know what i meant. any omments on this would be very much appreciated. Thank you all.



wsdm
(Login wsdm) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 23 2006, 5:50 PM

Persephone we are in the same boat! How long have you been on NBE? Any progress? I havn't quite started, I just massage once a day until i can find the right starting routine.

wsdm



Moon
(no login) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 23 2006, 8:30 PM

This thread is really awsome, thanx Sunset and everyone for the info! But I still don't get the thing about progesterone cream/milk thisle and brakes - when are you supposed to take herbs, when milk thissle/cream and when nothing?



Persephonee
(Login Persephonee) wsdm May 24 2006, 3:37 PM

I've actually only been massaging for close to a month now. I haven't started herbs yet as I am still debating whether or not I should use fenugreek. I really want to plump and perk up "the girls" but I would rather not start lactating. LOL Since I missed starting with day 1 of my cycle, I'm shooting for day 15 now. Best of wishes to you when you start! ::::crossing fingers:::: for us both. ;-)
Persephonee




Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS Moon: Re: prog.cream/milkThistle/herbs/breaks May 24 2006, 5:07 PM

Before starting with your routine it is generally recommended that you "prepare" your body for the breast enlargement process. To get rid of any excess hormones, and kind of "cleanse" and prepare your receptors before starting, you have 2 options: progesterone cream or milk thistle, the first for a week before your period, the second you can take for a couple of weeks before your period in general, as Sunset explained very well above, in her post: "Vivian RE: Progesterone cream". Then you are ready to start with your NBE herbs.

The cream/milk thistle you can also use for the same reasons if/when you decide to take a break from the herbs. As far as the breaks is concerned there is no rule for all, you might want to have a look at a previous post on the main forum page, called: "SugarQ: NBE BREAKS: Need your opinion, ANYONE ELSE WELCOME", hope it helps

Helen xx




Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS Sunspirit May 24 2006, 5:12 PM

I could definitely let you know of some places (actual/online) for herbs, but I am in U.K., would it be of any help? Where are you? Let me know

Helen xx



sunspirit
(Login sunspirit) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 24 2006, 9:28 PM

Hi Hellen,
thank you very much for replying to my message i really appreciate it. I live in the United States......thanks again and have a blessed Day :-)




Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS Sunspirit May 24 2006, 10:11 PM

Oh, can't be of much help then :/ In case you still haven't found any other places though, I know for sure that lots of girls here from US order from www.greenbush.net
Now, for actual local health shops/chains in the US, hope someone else plz help? Thanks!

Take care Sunspirit, hope you find your goodies soon so that you can get started!

Luv, Helen xx

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
* Happy Growing! *
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-



Moon
(Login -Moon-) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 24 2006, 10:13 PM

Thanx Sunset! Would it then be recomandable to have a break from herbs just for a week (or just a couple of days) before period and take milk thistle in that time, and then when the period starts take herbs again for ~three weeks? Or could milk thistle be taken with herbs in the week before the period (wouldn't it get rid of phytoestrogens in the herbs?)?




Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS Moon May 24 2006, 10:33 PM

Hi Moon, not sure you got what I meant there, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, let me try again. The 1 or 2 weeks of prog.cream/milk thistle before your period refers to the "preparation" recommended for your body AT THE BEGINNING, right before you start your routine altogether.

Now the breaks is another issue, this is why I referred to that thread in the past, where you can read what people here think about when it would be sensible to take a break. Some girls decide to break from the herbs for a day or 2 every month (like day1 and day14 of cycle, so they simply do not take the herbs those 2 days), some others do not break at all, so they carry on for several months, unless there is some indication that a break is needed (e.g. they do not get any results, so it could mean that their body "got used" to the herbs and they need to break for a while and make a fresh start). So during such a break one can use prog.cream/milk thistle for 1 or 2 weeks, before they start back again with the herbs.

Does this make more sense now?

Helen xx



Moon
(Login -Moon-) Helen May 24 2006, 10:44 PM

Sorry sorry I said Sunset, instead of Helen before! I had to turn on my comp again because of it, does that make up? :I
Yes, I get it now! I may be in need of a fresh start and a preparation. I think I'll do it only for a week with milk thistle, does that sound ok?




Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS Milk thistle May 25 2006, 5:51 PM

Hehe, no worries Moon
Yep, what you plan to do sounds okay to me; I have read that milk thistle can be used for one to two weeks before getting started with the NBE program (the idea is to get rid of toxins and cleanse the liver).
As for the daily dosage, one should simply follow the instructions on the bottle label.

~*~*~ Best boobie wishes to all! ~*~*~



Moon
(Login -Moon-) Milk Thistle May 25 2006, 6:41 PM

Cleanse too, that's exactly what I need. Thanx



CurlyQ
(Login CurlyQ2) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 25 2006, 9:06 PM

This is a wonderful thread too bad it cant be posted as a sticky or something or placed into hte other resources pages. It might even help some of the repeat questions.

Thanks so much for all this wonderful information!



Anonymous
(Login wsdm) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 26 2006, 1:50 AM

Oh my god Persephone we are soooooo in the same boat. I haven't started anything yet, I am a little hopeful, but truly scared it may not work.

Our situation is a little different than growing small breasts. A loss of elasticity is very hard to regain, one has to literally rebuild the breast and work out the muscles supporting the breasts.

I have a hypothesis that a high protein diet taken with green Papaya enzyme and other digestive aids combined with all the micro and macro nutrients needed to form collagen as well as basic NBE is what is going to be necessary to refirm/reform the breasts, fill them out and make them appear perkier...


I think a combination of

diet ( high protein, (beef))
exercise (specifically chest exercises: http://www.breasttalk.co.uk/breast_exercises.asp),
a good multivitamin supplement,
high doses of Vitamin C (powerful antioxidant and supporter of collagen growth),
NBE herbs (fenugreek)and
NBE oils (Borage)

are what we are going to need P...


I am crossing fingers too, lets keep tabs on our progress! I will start soon...

but for now I bought a new bra that is not constricting or padded or provides a push up (I am officially a 34 B,

I am massaging and want to ramp it up to twice a day.

started to make changes to my diet and adding multivitamin suppliments to my daily routine

I will begin exercising today

and will start taking the oil soon

I will add the herbs and if necessary hormone cream last...






wsdm
(Login wsdm) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 27 2006, 8:51 PM

bump



Persephonee
(Login Persephonee) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 28 2006, 2:54 PM

Hey, wsdm! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I have to laugh about the papaya enzyme. I have a male friend who is taking it because of digestive problems (his mom bought it for him). I told him that I had read that it can be used to help with enlarging breasts. So he says "You mean that my mom is playing with me?" LOL
I am a 36 B and I don't quite fill out my bra (I think that I have lost a bit of my boobs from exercising). In all honesty, I think that the droopiness has become worse since I lost the weight. They weren't quite as bad before. Originally I was hoping for a C cup but now I think I would just be happy to fill out my bra (I don't like padded bras at all so what's there is all "me"-what there is of it. LOL) I could even deal with the droopiness as long as they were a bit fuller.
Could you elaborate a little more on the papaya enzyme, what it does and the micro/macro nutrients and the high protien diet? But, please, talk slowly-I'm blonde. ;-)
I am already taking a multivitamin along with 1000 extra mg of C a day and a B-complex and maca as well. I rollerblade and do other exercises 3 times a week (crunches, arm exercises and lunges-thanks for the site reccomendation as I've added a new exercise to my routine from there , am massaging twice a day as a general rule. I eat a lot of chicken but not a lot of beef.
I don't consume much caffeine at all (except green tea or an occasional soda). I only smoke a 5 or 6 cigarettes a week on my nights out with hubby. My "vice" is beer so I will have to limit it somewhat on the weekends (when we go out) and/or not drink any around the times I take my herbs. I hope it works as I have been feeling down lately. But as a boost to my self-esteem the other night a 25 year old guy told my hubby, "No offense man, but 6 kids?! Your wife is hot!" LOL My hubby said, no offense taken-just keep your hands to yourself. LOL
Sorry to have written a book. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.
Persephonee



wsdm
(Login wsdm) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE May 28 2006, 4:00 PM

Hey Persephone!

I soooooo feel your pain trust me.

I am 34B barely filling the thing up too....sigh...they got worse also when I lost weight ugh!

Weight loss is death to the breasts! especially ours that already have a slight droop to them, DONT LOOSE ANY MORE WEIGHT!!!!!! Try to gain some if you don’t mind. This product looks very promising: http://www.suplimednutrients.com/

Exercising
I was reading recently that to maintain breast size during exercise keep them cool. How to keep them cool is another story, perhaps buy a sports bra that can hold a cooling pack, I honestly have no idea...but we can experiment and investigate.

Anyway, I would be happy to fill out my bra too, but why stop there let’s go for the gusto P! a full, ample C cup!!! We can do it, we will figure out how.


My hypothesis is this; we need to provide our body with the raw materials, building blocks to rebuild our breasts. Massaging will get the nutrients there and the herbs will stimulate the breasts to grow.

But the first step is digestion, what is the point of putting things into your body if your body cannot process, digest or absorb it. We need to enhance our digestive processes. Papaya enzyme helps with digestion. The enzyme helps break down food in our stomachs and perhaps small intestines as well. Papaya enzyme will help break down protein in our stomachs to amino acids the raw materials that make protein. The firmness of the breasts is caused by collagen and fat.

Collagen is protein, to make collagen our bodies need amino acids, copper, zinc, Vitamin C and I think Iron as well.

I think you are on the right path and you seem to keep yourself healthy. Do you have enough fat on your body though? Our breasts are made up of fat mainly but the most important thing is to make our bodies deposit the fat in our breasts

I suggested beef because it has a high protein concentration along with B vitamins and minerals it is a nutrient rich food, more so than chicken or turkey though the later are healthier. However it is not necessary, a protein rich diet I think is good enough.


Green tea I read is fantastic for breast growth. I cant remember why off hand.

Of course smoking is really bad; there are chemicals in there that could bind to cellular receptors (including breast receptors) that are hard to flush out of the body. Other heavy metals such as Cadmium and arsenic can mess with our cellular processes and have adverse effects on hormone regulation, not good for boob growth at all.


Supposedly beer is not good for breast growth but red wine is acceptable, no one has given me a real reason either. Beer I have read does not promote breast growth. Guinness stout(according to who knows)is good for weight gain and breast growth, I would take that one with a grain of salt, but in the UK and Caribbean it was given to mothers by DOCTORS to promote lactation.


Honey don’t worry I have been feeling down myself its really frustrating endeavor but we must keep very positive. I have even enlisted my husband to do the chi massages, he does it a lot firmer than I do them, and I can feel something going on...he has agreed to massage my breasts every single night that has cheered me up a bit. I get the day shift lol

Ok so you are hot!!!!! That is something to celebrate!!! I think I am hot too (I know the arrogance) I just wish my boobs would get with the program lol

WE CAN DO IT P! We just have to figure out how, there is a way to re-firm, reshape and fill up breasts that have taken somewhat of a beating from life, there is a way to rejuvenate the breasts we have to maintain that belief unwaveringly and do all we can to make that belief a reality, are you with me?

We are all hear to support each other so if I didn’t make sense in my really long tirade please feel free to ask me more questions.



moon
(Login -Moon-) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE June 7 2006, 4:18 PM

Why is dry massage bad???



Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS Dry Massage vs. Lotion Benefits June 7 2006, 4:48 PM

One can massage without lotion, but the breast skin is thin and sensitive, so friction with your hands might irritate it, make it dry or even sore - and we want to feel soreness due to growth, not massage friction, right?

Even just a normal moisturising lotion/oil will simply help your hands slide smoothly on your skin and it is anyway beneficial for preserving the skin's elasticity, firmness, and for strechmark prevention (especially in the case of growth).

PLUS, by massaging with a boobie lotion enriched with "herbal goodness", you also "feed" your skin with those useful ingredients depending on the batter you use, so massaging doesn't only improve circulation, but also helps the skin absorb these ingredients. So in addition to "feeding" your boobies internally with the pills, you also "feed" them topically through the skin, contributing to the effects of the pills.



meg
(no login) still a bit confused! June 27 2006, 10:12 PM

I have found this forum facinating and would like to take this opportunity to thank all the girls who have given excellent advice and good luck to all those still experimenting and growing! I too am keen to start NBE properly this time.
ok, so I have decided to take the milk thisle, for 1 - 2 weeks before starting herb routine and this will flush out toxins and open receptors. Do I really need to start herbs on day one of period????
The herbs I have bought are Fenugreek, Hops, barley, Fennel, (redclover for massage).I bought saw palmetto but have decided against for now because i take BC.
I know they need to be ramped, I will start taking Fenugreek.
Do i just take one a day, for how many days before increasing? then when do i start next herb?
Could someone give me an example please.????
I really want this to work!
Cheers



FIREFOX
(Login FIREFOX30) WHERE CAN I GET THESE HERBS June 29 2006, 1:25 PM

HI ALL

IM NEW TO ALL THIS.

WHAT ARE THESE HERBS THAT U CAN TAKE TO HELP YOUR BOOBS GROW AND WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO GET THEM FROM.


WOULD THIS HERBS AFFECT THE PILL.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP



tms81
(Login tms81) briliant idea!! July 15 2006, 8:10 PM

Learned a lot from reading this page was very helpfull. But where is the best place with lowest prices to buy the different herbs?



van
(Login vannapkvs) Re: Thread for Newbies, all about NBE July 26 2006, 6:04 AM

Hi, I am very new to this site. I am 24 with two kids and very flat(AAA).
This is the same question Mandy was asking. I also have contraceptive implant (IUD) and have light periods does this affect the NBE? I'm so interested in NBE I want to start asap
Thanks, Van



meg
(Login meegash) remotehypnosis July 27 2006, 12:01 PM

Hello,
I'm having problems with the remotehypnosis website. been trying to download the breast enlargment (and also driving test, cause i get so nervous!)
I click where it says to start downloading but it doesn't download. Am i being thick, where does it download to? has anyone else sucessfully downloaded from this website? I'm usually good with computers!



marjoram
(Login marjoram) Remotehypnosis July 29 2006, 5:12 PM

What you need to do is click through the links until you get to the one that says 'Click here to continue your download' (or just paste the following url into your browser: http://remotehypnosis.com/clicks.asp?dow...gement.mp3). Right-click on this link and choose 'Save target as...'. It should then ask you to choose where on your computer to save the mp3 file. It takes a while to download but then you can play it using any sort of media player.

Clicking on the link normally, actually makes it load up in the browser, where you can listen to it directly, but because the file is so big, it takes ages to load and hence it looks like it is doing nothing. Even if you are patient enough to wait for it to finish, you can't then save it anywhere unless you have QuickTime Pro which makes it pretty useless.

Don't worry, it took me a while to figure out how to download this too, and I work in the computer industry!



Author Reply

Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS Re: the newbies thread January 12 2007, 10:51 AM 


One thing to bear in mind when main herbs for NBE are mentioned is that the selection of herbs in these cases tends to be from American herbalism. In Europe different herbs tend to be used to those in the US.