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Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex?
May 28 2009 at 7:18 AM mrshuy (Login mrshuy)

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Hi everyone,
Im 22
No kids, healthy diet.
I have abnormal estrogen or maybe ED.

I want to increase my Progesterone. What should I take??

Yesterday I started taking Vitex 400mg x 2 per day.

I tend to use Vitex in the first 2 months to balance my hormone.
However, as I read somewhere Wahaika said that Vitex will stop breast growth.
In contrast, Waxingmoon suggest using Vitex. Besides, some people notice breast growth after using Vitex.

I was confused.
I know that Vitex increases Progesterone but it also reduces Prolactin (which makes breast tissue, am I rite to say?)

So, when using Vitex, what other herbs should I use to increase Prolactin?? Someone said Fenugreek. but I know that Fenugreek is a strong estrogic herb which newbie should not start with, especially who suffer from abnormal estrogen or ED.

I read Waxingmoon program carefully. beside Vitex, She used crused flax seed and EPO.

7months ago, I have already used BCP for 6 months continuously. Although BCP increases Progesterone, I didnt notice any breast growth. So, can I conclude that Progesterone increase is unnecessary for my breast growth?? (but my sister and my mum have big and firm boobs after breast feeding )

I am thinking about Progesterall cream instead of Vitex but I haven't done enough research so Im not confident to use it.

I will appreciate all your help. Thanks in advance.



Author Reply
mrshuy
(Login mrshuy) Re: Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex? May 28 2009, 7:21 AM


My new topic



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex? May 28 2009, 6:23 PM


Hello Mrshuy,

What leads you to the conclusion that you are deficient in progesterone? Are you experiencing mid cycle spotting, shortened cycles? Have you had a saliva or blood test? Or are you going by one of the online behavioral tests?

Sincerely,

Wahaika



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex? May 28 2009, 10:11 PM


Hi Mrshuy,

In answer to what promotes the production of progesterone naturally in the body we must consider the raw materials the body uses to produce the hormone itself. Progesterone like many hormones is protein based. Increasing protein levels will help the body produce this hormone. Vitamin C is also necessary for hormone production. Increasing vitamin C levels will help with progesterone production.

Something else from my program page that may not have stood out because it is not considered 'NBE' specific - the vitamins I take for optimal health. When the body lacks any nutrient, correct hormone production is unlikely. Making sure you have optimal supplies of all nutrients vital to health is important for hormone balance.

Exercise and stress reduction are also vital. Cortisol production brought on by heightened stress will lower progesterone levels (cortisol is made from progesterone).

Vitex works best in a body that has all the other things necessary to health. Vitex does have the side effect of lowering prolactin. Taken for a time to balance hormones (about 6 to 9 months) and then followed up with a galactogouge to increase the prolactin levels and then the body might be ready for other forms of NBE.

Wahaika has a good point about using vitex as a balancing agent. By itself it does not seem to promote NBE unless in those rare cases where progesterone deficiency alone has been interfering with proper breast growth.

Also, and this is very important. The type of progesterone used in BCP is not the same as natural progesterone. It is called a progestin and this artificial molecule does not create the protective or balancing effect of bio-identical progesterone cream. Think of natural progesterone cream as a master key that opens all doors. Artificial progestin is like having a key that opens only some doors. What you experienced with BCP is not the same as what you would experience with natural progesterone cream.

Just make sure you need vitex or progesterone cream before you use them. A saliva test of progesterone is the best idea.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



mrshuy
(Login mrshuy) Re: Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex? May 29 2009, 5:01 AM


Hi Waxingmoon.
I really appreciate your help.

So you have suggested things good for natural progesterone to work best and things that encourage progesterone production.

What about herbs or foods or smthing that help increase prolactin??
Since I want to increase my prolactin while taking Vitex.

thank you in advance.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex? May 29 2009, 1:12 PM


Hi Mrshuy,


Here is something I ran across, but I could not find the study it was referring to:
__________________________________________________________
Current research with Vitex has indicated usefulness in hyperprolactinemia. In studies with rats, Vitex was shown to inhibit prolactin release by the pituitary gland p; particularly under stress. The mechanism of action appears to involve the ability of Vitex to directly bind dopamine receptors and subsequently inhibit prolactin release in the pituitary.14,15 Slight hyperprolactinemia is commonly associated with corpus luteum insufficiency.16
_______________________________________________________________

This would indicate 2 things. 1. The mechanism of vitex acts to bind dopamine receptors which is how it inhibits prolactin release from the pituitary. 2. Higher than normal prolactin levels are commonly associated with corpus luteum insufficiency.

What the second part of that statement indicates is that someone who is not producing enough progesterone due to 'corpus luteum insufficiency' would have higher than normal levels of prolactin. If this is indeed the case, vitex's effect to lower prolactin would be a good thing.

Keep in mind - a best case scenario with vitex would be that both the progesterone and prolactin levels would become normal. We don't want either of these hormones to be above or below what our body needs.

So this is where the big question mark remains. What is it our body needs. If we could test our progesterone levels and found them to be low and also test our prolactin levels and find them to be high, then taking vitex is the solution. The study seemed to indicate that this scenario might be common.

I did find this reference about things in general that raise prolactin levels. However - caution must be used. If you do something that raises prolactin levels too high it can negatively effect your health. I am also not sure if vitex's effect on dopamine would make the following methods invalid.

___________________________________________________________________________
Prolactin levels increase as a result of:
• Certain medications, including commonly prescribed antidepressants,
anti-psychotics, and blood pressure medications
• Herbs, including fenugreek, fennel seeds and red clover
• Chest wall irritation (from surgical scars, shingles, or even a too-tight bra)
• Stress
• Certain foods
• Exercise
• Sleep (prolactin levels are highest at night)
• Nipple stimulation
• Hypothyroidism, or underactive thyroid
• Pituitary tumors. These are usually very tiny, but account for about
30% of all cases of hyperprolactinemia

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:zoCqvzKBlUAJ:www.asrm.org/Patients/FactSheets/Prolactin_Excess.pdf+fenugreek+prolactin&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
__________________________________________________________________________

So, there you have it. My thoughts would be: If you need vitex because your body can't make enough progesterone, then don't not worry about prolactin.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



mrshuy
(Login mrshuy) Re: Im ED. What other herbs to take with Vitex? May 31 2009, 6:21 AM


Thank you so much, Waxingmoon.
Your answer is very clear and helpful.