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The truth about cocoa butter...
February 15 2007 at 8:00 PM
Fennel Fairy (Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER

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Since everyone seems to be using cocoa butter for massage I feel the need to post this. It might upset some, but I hate to see people wasting time with unrealistic hopes on something that won't work.

The only "document" that states that cocoa butter is supposed to enlarge breasts,is on page 285 of the Edgar Cayce Handbook for Health through Drugless Therapy. Cayce states, in his reading numbered 934-13, that a method to enlarge the breast is obtained, as follows: "This is a little bit late in beginning [the woman was aged thirty-two] but if there is the massage of the mammary glands with cocoa butter-not on the breast itself, but under the arm and lower and in the area between the breast you can get 'em as big or as little as you wish."

Edgar Cayce was not a doctor. Neither was he a scientist. He was a psychic medium with no medical or dermatological training whatsoever.

http://skepdic.com/cayce.html

http://www.meridianinstitute.com/echerb/...cocoa.html

According to Cayce's method, the belief is that the cocoa butter is absorbed into the breast, hence enlarging the size of the breast by the breast assimilating the cocoa butter and storing the cocoa butter around the gland lobules of the mammary gland. In other words, the breast is believed to absorb and assimilate the cocoa butter as the bodys own fat.

Anyone with a basic knowlege of biology and chemistry will know that this is impossible. The large molecules of cocoa butter can't even penetrate the skins top layer, the epidermis. What it does, is work as an emollient, to soften the top layers dead skin cells and seal the skins moisture in. It can't go "through" the skin, into the breast tissue. Sorry, it is biologically impossible. Any plumpness achieved by massaging cocoa butter on the breasts is probably due to water retention since the fat molecules will stop water from evaporating through the pores as is normally the case.

Still, cocoa butter is good for keeping skin soft and keep the moisture sealed in. And since it doesn't really penetrate the skin, you can massage and massage and massage forever with it - which is good if you want a good long massage, That's about it. It is said to help promote the collagen production but I haven't seen any scientific evidence of that yet.

I hope no one feels offended by this, but I think it's better that we focus on things that might actually work.



Author Reply
Lisa
(Login lilmama40) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 15 2007, 8:09 PM


I appreciate the info, I for one am not offended. I appreciate when anyone shares findings like this here with us, we're here to learn from each other! I suspected this actually about the cocoa butter, although so many people here have sworn that the cocoa butter has plumped their breasts up. For me, I want to use it moreso as the tool for the actual massages, which are probably more responsible for the plumping than the cocoa butter would ever be. Plus it feels and smells nice, but I haven't expected that it in and of itself would make my boobs grow, although I know that some here have. :-)


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Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 15 2007, 8:23 PM


I forgot to add that Edgar Cayce lived between 1877 and 1945. Go figure.

I still think cocoa butter is fantastic for a very dry skin though, especially in the winter. But no measureable inches of boobie growth will appear from it. Sadly.


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Surf
(Login Surf.)
SENIOR MEMBER Essential and carrier oils February 15 2007, 9:04 PM


I originally posted the following under the "What to do after daytime massage to deal with the smell and stickiness?" thread, but thought it was very appropriate for here.


Thanks for your knowledge of oils FennelFairy!!! Per FennelFairy, "Essential oils all have a tiny molecular size and penetrate deeply into the skin". Therefore, I did a bit of research on essential and carrier oils.

What are Carrier Oils?
Adding an essential oil, drop by drop, to carrier oil.

Carrier oils also referred to as base oils or vegetable oils are used to dilute essential oils, CO2s and absolutes before applying to the skin. They “carry” the essential oil onto the skin. Different carrier oils offer different properties and the choice of carrier oil can depend on the therapeutic benefit being sought.

Carrier oils are generally cold-pressed vegetable oils derived from the fatty portions of the plant. Unlike essential oils that evaporate and have a concentrated aroma, carrier oils do not evaporate or impart their aroma as strongly as essential oils.

Examples of carrier oils are sweet almond, apricot kernel, grapeseed, avocado, peanut, olive, pecan, macadamia nut, sesame, evening primrose, walnut and wheat germ. Most oils bought in the grocery store are not cold-pressed. Instead, the oils are heated and therefore have less therapeutic benefit. Mineral oil is not used in aromatherapy because mineral oil is not a natural product. It is also said that mineral oil can prevent essential oil absorption into the skin.

Essential oils do not go rancid. Carrier oils, however, can go rancid. Carrier oils that you purchase should be natural and unadulterated. Exceptions include buying carrier oils that have natural vitamin E added. Vitamin E acts as a natural preservative.

Carrier Oils

Carrier oils also referred to as base oils or vegetable oils are used to dilute essential oils, CO2s and absolutes before applying to the skin. Please see the What are Carrier Oils? article for more information on what carrier oils are and how they are used. Below is a list of many of the commonly used carrier oils.

Almond, Sweet

Botanical Name: Prunus amygdalus var. dulcus
Aroma: Light, slightly sweet and nutty.
Texture: Slightly oily, leaves a slight oily feeling on the skin. Absorbs semi-quickly.
Color: Virtually clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: Sweet Almond oil is considered to be a good all-purpose carrier oil to keep on hand and is moderately priced.


Apricot Kernel

Botanical Name: Prunus armeniaca
Aroma: Faint
Texture: Somewhat oily, absorbs semi-quickly.
Color: Virtually clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: The semi-oily texture makes this oil helpful in massage blends.


Avocado

Botanical Name: Persea americana
Aroma: Medium. Somewhat sweet, fatty and nutty in aroma.
Texture: Thick, leaves a fatty, almost waxy feel to the skin.
Color: Deep olive green.
Notes: If not carefully used or used in a small dilution with another carrier, it may overpower a blend.


Borage

Botanical Name: Borago officinalis
Aroma: Light and sweet.
Texture: Thin to medium, leaves a somewhat oily feel to the skin.
Color: Light yellow.
Notes: Is said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. Borage oil is expensive and is usually blended in a small (often 10%) dilution with other carrier oils. It goes rancid rather quickly.


Cocoa Butter

Botanical Name: Theobroma cacao
Aroma: Unrefined cocoa butter is rich and very sweet . It has a chocolaty, "cocoa" aroma. The cocoa aroma is less noticeable in refined cocoa butter.
Texture: Solid and hard to work with at room temperate. Breaks into pieces.
Color: Yellowish tan.
Notes: Cocoa butter needs to be blended with other materials/oils to be workable. Suitable for use in lotions and creams.


Evening Primrose

Botanical Name: Oenothera biennis
Aroma: Light and sweet
Texture: Thin, leaves only a trace of oiliness on the skin.
Color: Medium yellow.
Notes: Evening Primrose is also said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. It is expensive and is usually blended in a small (often 10%) dilution with other carrier oils. It goes rancid quickly.


Grapeseed

Botanical Name: Vitus vinifera
Aroma: Light, slightly sweet with a hint of a nutty aroma.
Texture: Thin but leaves a glossy film on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear, has an almost unnoticeable tinge of yellow/green.
Notes: Unlike most other carrier oils, grapeseed oil is solvent extracted and may have trace amounts of chemical solvent remaining. I have heard mixed reports on the shelf-life of grapeseed (some have said it goes rancid rather fast). I usually go through a bottle of grapeseed once each six months and have not discovered any problems with rancidity when stored in an amber bottle in a cool dark area.


Hazelnut

Botanical Name: Corylus avellana
Aroma: Light, nutty, somewhat sweet.
Texture: Thin and only leaves a slightly oily film on the skin.
Color: Light yellow.
Notes: It is said to be a good choice for those with oilier skin.


Jojoba

Botanical Name: Simmondsia chinensis
Aroma: Light to medium in aroma, not as sweet as the nut oils. The aroma is distinct but pleasant.
Texture: Light and silky. Absorbs well.
Color: Yellow.
Notes: Jojoba "oil" is actually a wax. It is a somewhat pricier oil and is frequently blended in a small dilution (10%) with other oils. It has a very long shelf-life.


Kukui

Botanical Name: Aleurites moluccana
Aroma: Light, sweet, pleasant, nutty.
Texture: Thin. Absorbs well, leaving only a trace oily feeling on the skin.
Color: Clear with a hint of yellow.
Notes: It is said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. It is a somewhat more pricier oil. It goes rancid rather quickly.


Macadamia Nut

Botanical Name: Macadamia integrifolia
Aroma: More fragrant than sweet almond and some of the other nut oils, it is very sweet, fatty and nutty in aroma.
Texture: Thick and leaves an oily film on the skin.
Color: Clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: If not carefully used or used in a small dilution with another carrier, it may overpower a blend.


Olive

Botanical Name: Olea europaea
Aroma: Typical aroma of olive oil used in cooking (smells somewhat like olives).
Texture: Heavy and rather oily.
Color: Light to medium green.
Notes: If not carefully used or used in a small dilution with another carrier, it may overpower a blend.


Peanut

Botanical Name: Arachis hypogeae
Aroma: Like Pecan, it is extremely light in aroma with a slight fatty, nutty quality.
Texture: Thick and leaves a very oily film on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear.
Notes: Peanut oil should not be used by anyone that has an allergy to peanuts. Because of it's oiliness, it is said to be a good choice for inclusion in massage blends. It has been said that it is a good oil to use for those with arthritis.


Pecan

Botanical Name: Carya pecan
Aroma: Extremely light with a hint of a fatty, nutty aroma.
Texture: Medium thickness, leaves a slight oily film on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear.
Notes: It is said that it goes rancid somewhat quickly. I have used only one bottle of Pecan oil and did not discover any problems with rancidity when stored in an amber bottle in a cool dark area during my use of the oil over about 4-6 months.


Rose Hip

Botanical Name: Rosa mosqueta
Aroma: Mild and perhaps earthy aroma.
Texture: Light and leaves only a hint of oil on the skin.
Color: Virtually clear.
Notes: It is said to be excellent in treating many skin conditions. It is expensive and is usually blended in a small (often 10%) dilution with other carrier oils. It goes rancid rather quickly.


Sesame

Botanical Name: Sesamum indicum
Aroma: Medium with a distinctive sweet, nutty sesame scent. May overpower a blend if not diluted with another carrier oil.
Texture: Mildly thick, leaves an oily film on the skin.
Color: Light yellow.
Notes: Sesame oil may overpower a blend if not diluted with another carrier oil.


Shea Butter

Botanical Name: Butyrospermun parkii
Aroma: Nutty, fatty.
Texture: Solid but permeable at room temperature. Leaves an oily/waxy feeling on the skin.
Color: Off-white/cream.
Notes: Suitable for use in lotions and creams.


Sunflower

Botanical Name: Helianthus annuus
Aroma: Faint and sweet.
Texture: Thin and does not leave an oily residue.
Color: Virtually clear with a tinge of yellow.
Notes: When choosing sunflower oil, strive to get unrefined oil.

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HAZARDOUS Essential Oils: The list shown below contains essential oils that should not be used in aromatherapy without the express administration by a qualified aromatherapy practitioner. Many should not even be used by a qualified practitioner. Do not assume that an oil is safe to use if it is not on this list.


Ajowan
Trachyspermum copticum

Almond, Bitter
Prunus dulcis var. amara

Arnica
Arnica Montana

Birch, Sweet
Betula lenta

Boldo Leaf
Peumus boldus

Broom, Spanish
Spartium junceum

Calamus
Acorus calamus var. angustatus

Camphor
Cinnamomum camphora

Deertongue
Carphephorus odoratissimus

Garlic
Allium sativum

Horseradish
Armoracia rusticana

Jaborandi
Pilocarpus jaborandi

Melilotus
Melilotus officinalis

Mugwort
Artemisia vulgaris

Mustard
Brassica nigra

Onion
Allium cepa

Pennyroyal
Mentha pulegium

Rue
Ruta graveolens

Sassafras
Sassafras albidum

Thuja
Thuja occidentalis

Wintergreen
Gaultheria procumbens

Wormseed
Chenopodium ambrosioides var. anthelminticum

Wormwood
Artemisia absinthium


Important Note: The information provided in the Oil Profiles area is for educational purposes only. This data is not considered complete and is not guaranteed to be accurate.


************************************************

Essential Oil Safety Information

Diluting a very small quantity of essential oil in carrier oil.


Essential oils are highly concentrated liquids that can be harmful if not used carefully. Implementing aromatherapy into your lifestyle shouldn't cause paranoia or undue worry. By treating essential oils as medicines and following the steps outlined below, you will be well on your way to safely enjoying the many benefits that aromatherapy can offer.

These safety guidelines are not a complete safety reference for the proper use of essential oils. When in doubt, consult your physician and/or a qualified and trained aromatherapy practitioner.

Essential oils should never be used undiluted on the skin. There are instances when experienced aromatherapy users and practitioners make exceptions to this precaution, but only once significant essential oil knowledge is gained should you ever attempt to apply an undiluted oil on the skin. Lavender and tea tree are listed by a large number of aromatherapy sources as being oils that can be used undiluted. Undiluted use of lavender and tea tree, however, should only be done on rare occurances as severe sensitivity still could occur in some individuals. Again, the safest rule of thumb is to never use any essential oil undiluted.


Some oils can cause sensitization or allergic reactions in some individuals. When using a new oil for the first time, do a skin patch on a small area of skin. Place a small amount of the diluted essential oil (never use essential oils undiluted on the skin) on the inside of your elbow and apply a bandage. Wait 24 hours to see if there is any form of reaction. Even if a particular essential oil is not known to cause irritation, this step should not be ignored. Even if an oil does not irritate you, it still can irritate someone else. It is important that you always keep that in mind.


Some essential oils should be avoided during pregnancy or by those with asthma, epilepsy, or with other health conditions.


Less IS More. When using essential oils, use the smallest amount of essential oils that will get the job done. If one drop will get the job done, for example, don't use two drops.


Not all essential oils are suitable for use in aromatherapy. Wormood, pennyroyal, onion, camphor, horseradish, wintergreen, rue, bitter almond and sassafras are some of the essential oils that should only be used by qualified aromatherapy practitioners, if ever at all.


Never let children use essential oils without the presence of an adult knowledgeable about their use. Most essential oils smell wonderful and many essential oils such as citrus oils can smell like they are safe to drink. Keep your essential oils away from children. Treat the oils like medicines that are poison in unknowing hands.


Essential oils should not be taken internally. Essential oils should only be taken internally after receiving a detailed consultation and prescription from a trained and qualified aromatherapy practitioner.


Essential oils are flammable. Please keep them out of the way of fire hazards.

See link http://www.aromaweb.com/essentialoils/default.asp




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Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 15 2007, 9:19 PM


And here is a link to that thread:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...stickiness-

It has a lot of useful information about how creams work, why some things penetrate and some don't, and how our skin functions.


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Surf
(Login Surf.)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 15 2007, 9:53 PM


Ok, now after all this, it begs the question - is there anything that is small enough in molecular structure that will deposit fat into your breasts?

FennelFairy, you mentioned in one of your posts something about fatty acids being able to penetrate the skin layers. If you massage with fatty acids, will they deposit fat into the breast? If so, which ones woulde be best for this process?

Thank you so much for knowledge in this area!!!




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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 6:22 AM


If ANY fat had that size molecules that could penetrate all of the skin into the actual breast, it would be a killer. Because before it could ever get to the breast tissue, it would probably clog up our bloodvessels and cause a rather quick death.

I don't believe that you can deposit fat in the breasts through applying it topically. At all. The only thing that can do that is things like steroids/hormones/phytoestrogen. Even though ther cream they are in won't penetrate the skin all the way, the active substance will to a certain extent.

I think it's all down to the PM or progesterone creams in the end, if you want a cream that will help the breast gather more fat cells on the inside.


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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 8:04 AM


Thank you for this information, Fennel Fairy. Do you feel the PM is more likely to work than fenugreek, etc. for massage? Is there something about it that makes it superior for BE?


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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 8:17 AM


Since pueraria mirifica seems to have a larger amount of phytoestrogens in it than any other "plant" I would think it's the most effective thing to use in a cream. That is, if there is enough of the actual Pueraria in the cream of course.

But fenugreek seems to be potent enough too in my opinion. I guess it depends on the amount we use.


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 2:34 PM


There has been many, many sucessful NBE propgrams, here and on BeBoard that recognise the importance of breast massage oils and herbs. To state that it is a waste of time is offencive. Sunset did extensive research into massage not only for NBE but for general breast health to flush toxins and her massage "nagging" lol,,, made us all very aware of our breast health, not just for NBE. I would suggest Fennel Fairy you yourself do more researching. PS,,, It was actually the caffine in the coco butter that stimulated gland growth as much if not more than the oil. Sorry but I will not stand still to watch Sunset's work and research discredited when so much info sources tells us otherwise.


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snowdrops
(Login snowdropsfalling) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 2:58 PM


I don't think anyone should be offended with truth else they be blinded and not learn. I do use cocoa butter BUT not for the fact it will deposit fat. I think it is stupid that anyone should think the fat should absorb otherwise we would all be putting on our boobs pure animal fat and we'd all have big breasts by now. I use it solely to seal in OTHER herbs at the end and to make it smell nicer like chocolate. Not to mention cocoa butter FIRMS (like when used for pregnancy, stretchy marks) so that after growing a considerable amount due to herbs and such it would at least not get all saggy once it does the normal deflation after ending a routine. However I believe the MASSAGE action associated with cocoa butter is GOOD but the belief that cocoa butter will deposit fat is rather silly since the molecules are huge and all lotions have some sorta fat. If it were true I believe we'd be all big globs of fat everywhere else.


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS You didn't read the post!!! February 16 2007, 3:12 PM


Massageing flushes toxins and cleans the lymphnods so that nutrients can enter and circulate. The caffine out of the coco butter stimulated gland tissue to enlarge,, the oil and emolients from the coco butter firmed. It is offensive when someone comes on and tries to discredit a member's info and 2 NBE boards info and experieces and sucessful results. What experience has she had to contradic 2 forums valuable info????


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gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER Coca butter my thaughts February 16 2007, 3:16 PM


Now i appreciate the info provided by all, i myself am not using coca butter for massage,I did at the begining but im reaserching and using collagen, somthing else that has been said not to absorbe, that i can confirm does.

however, regardless to the scientific explinations Cocoa butter has been mentioned constantly on this forum as working, if people who do massage and do state it works suley it does.
i can canfirm non of us have shares in coca butter /palmers etc so would have no reason to praise a prodcut with out reasoning.

scientific reasoning also states NBE does not work and that as many of us here know is also false NBE does work.

Scientists constantly get things wrong.

i myself know nothing about molocular absorbsion, so why does coca butter have such good reported results?(this is not a dig its a genuine question)

Also this man from the 1800's may have been onto somthing, and his thaughts etc just needed following up, continued reaserch etc.

Just a few more of my little thaughts
*lets not forget any body is intittle to thier opinion and posts,that is the great thing here.

*May b a new post should beople with results from coca butter please sign in-

*To me we are the reaserchers and it is us that will prove either way what works and what doesn't,may be we can keep our own statistics on all products, i mean they have adverts on tv that 71%of 132 women said X works.(and then they sell the bloody thing e.g-face cream shampoo etc)
We should do the same





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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 3:25 PM


And to go and post under Sunset's Post on the info page,,, just disrespectful!!! Sorry but it is,,, Why don't we go and delete all the info then,,, you know why we don't,,, cause its valuable and it will work for some. Maybe we should just delete it all and start over,,, where would we be then???????


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gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER come on have alittle respect please February 16 2007, 3:36 PM


Now i have to agree with snowflake here,how you have replyed to the cocoa butter info is totally disrepectful, you can't tell some one what they have found etc is rubbish, , it is very unfair and not what this forum is for, freedom of speach yes but there is a way of expressing your thaught and findings,it doesn't give any one the right to discredit other peoples reaserch or b blatently rude.



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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Thank-you Ginger D February 16 2007, 3:54 PM


Thank you for taking time to read the resource page and recent post. This is not the only forum that has used the coco butter method. We have all discovered here at one point or another that what works for one may or may not work for another. Thats why ALL info is concidered valuable and hopefully it WILL help somebody. It would be tragic to have to start from scratch. I am well into my second year here and am still learning new NBE tips and tricks. Anyway, like I said ALL info and experiences are valuable,But experiences take time and info should be respected.


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Jen
(Login js89)
SENIOR MEMBER I agree February 16 2007, 3:58 PM


I agree with Snowflake and gingerD. It was very rude to post info on Sunset's thread. Who is to say your research is not wrong? And I agree - science says over and over again that NBE is not possible. Should we all listen to that?


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Vitamin E February 16 2007, 5:07 PM


Is absorbed into the skin and its an oil. It can diminish wrinkles from outside or internally. It can make scars disappear. On the BeBoard it has been noted that Vitamin E used externally will help maintain any NBE growth. Whether you do massage with olive oil or coco butter,,, no matter,, MASSAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT,, for overall breast health for the rest of your life. Even if it has nothing to do with breast enhancement ladies,,,massage!!!! Move out the stale fluids and toxins that linger and cause trouble. It could actually save your life someday. 1 in 9 women will have to deal with breast cancer,,, don't let it be YOU!!!!!! Thanks Sunset,,, Forever our massage Queen!!!


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Diana
(Login Diana1978)
SENIOR MEMBER hi February 16 2007, 5:17 PM


I have a problem with this theory. i put on cocoa butter a couple times at night before wrapped myself up with saran wrap and ended up plumper in the morning, what was that from? wishful thinking? good luck to all massaging..with CB...


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Please read,,, February 16 2007, 5:20 PM


Entire thread,,, I agree with you,, coco butter does work!!!!


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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 6:10 PM


If you've read a lot about Edgar Cayce, you'll realize that a lot of what he said is not "scientific." Interestingly, though, he was very accurate and a great healer, even at a distance, which implies that physical healing and/or changes can be caused by something happening on a mental or spiritual level, and not simply by biochemical and mechanical changes in the body itself. Some scientifically-oriented people have a hard time with these types of assertions, and that's ok. It doesn't mean, however, that cocoa butter doesn't work. It just means that they do not belive that it works and/or how it works. It's worked for me!


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Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 7:08 PM


Snowflake - I never said massage was a waste of time. But to believe that you can add fat to breast tissue through the skin is ridiculous and plain stupid. That was my point. If you had read my post properly, you would have seen that I am in favour of massage and that there are other oils more suitable.

Also some of you seem to confuse plumpness and growth. I am not questioning the plumpness you get from massaging with cocoa butter and wrapping yourself in plastic or whatever. It's called water retention. And it works. For a while. It is NOT growing however. Show me one single person who has actually had any permanent growth with an inch or two with just cocoa butter and I will take back my statement.

If you choose to belive a nineteenth century psychic rather than modern dermatology, then feel free to do so. My intention has never been disrespectful to anyone, but I hate to see people getting fooled. I find it strange that people seldom question "statements" they read on the internet. I am used to critical thinking and when I see something that can be proven fundamentally wrong, I say something. Sorry for being honest.

Our moisturizers don't make our faces fat, do they? And if you take a bath in lard you don't get any fatter. You don't need a degree in biology to see common sense. And I happen to have both common sense AND a degree in both chemistry and biology. Don't ask me to "read up on things" - I have spent years in university doing just that.

If anyone feels offended by my posts, I apologise. I never meant to come across like that.


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 7:33 PM


Well good for you!!!! To bad your degree didn't give you some manners to go with it. It was very disrepectful posting on Sunset's info page. Your rudeness is not welcome here!!!! Alot of people with degrees say NBE isn't possible either,, but you say you have growth in just one month,,, amazing!!! I still suggest you do more research on essential oils and massage regarding breast growth,, I don't care what your wrinkled piece of paper says,, you still have much to learn in regards to breast enhancement and repecting others experiences!!!!


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Furthermore,,, February 16 2007, 7:45 PM


You didn't even comment on the health benefits of massage decreasing the risk of breast cancer. And it was never about absorbing vasts amounts of fat, it was about enhancement and breast health, and clearing out the lymhnodes and circulation.


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Anonymous
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 7:52 PM


I think YOU are rude Snowflake. I know what level of education I have so your comments don't get to me. Let's just continue letting people believe in something that is biologically impossible, to keep the peace here.

If needed, do delete my comment in the scientific report about the psychic quack. However, information is only useful if it is correct.

I am sorry that I seem to upset you so much by seeing things from the scientific/medical point of view. Do you find knowledge that offensive?


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Anonymous
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 7:58 PM


Why do you complain about me not commenting on massage and preventing breast cancer? Do I need to? Isn't it obvious that those are good things?

The only thing I questioned and criticised here, was Edgar Cayce's theory of adding fat to breast tissue using cocoa butter. You don't seem to read my posts before attacking. There is no need to be unfriendly here simply because I disagree with Edgar Cayce.


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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 8:03 PM


I am sorry snowflake,but the health benefits of massage decreasing the risk of breast cancer, breast health, and clearing out lymhnodes and circulation was NOT what I criticised. I criticised Mr. Cayce's theory about adding fat to breast tissue with cocoa butter.

Now, why it is so extremely offensive to you, that I disagree with Edgar Cayce?


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Kerry79
(Login Kerry79) Please stop! February 16 2007, 8:22 PM


Um... I thought we were all here to support each other, not bring each other down. Many of us use this forum as a source of encouragement, because we don't have others to turn to that really understand. That being said, its pretty awful to log in here and see people yelling at each other and saying that what another believes in is "stupid". Fennel, you're not the only one here with advanced degrees in the sciences. However, the body of scientific knowledge out there does not seem to explain this phenomena of NBE. The truth is, biologists really don't understand every chemical working of our cells, and so many of them shrug it all off and say it doesn't work. Not to mention all of the eastern practices like accupuncture and accupressure that have had amazing results, but modern science fails to explain.

We're here to respect and support one another and share our experiences. If you have found information that is contrary to someone else's experiences, then by all means, do share. It has been interesting to read all of the articles presented here. However, please leave if you feel the need to insult anyone. There are plenty of other websites for that.


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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 8:45 PM


I haven't insulted anyone. I have been told though, that I have no manners and that I need further education to have the right to air my opinion here.

Look here, all one would need is a really really good microscope, a sample of cocoa butter and a dissected sample of human skin, to see that a cocoa butter molecule is many many times larger than the openings it is supposed to penetrate.

Again, I apologise if my criticism of a theory that is obviously unrealistic has hurt anyones feelings. I posted this thread because I don't want people to believe that they can add fat to their breasts from the outside. Simply because you can't.


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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 8:46 PM


I believe that massage is more than 50 % of a sucessful routine, but I've never encoutered any info that cocoa butter would have breast enhancing properties. It does plump the breasts and I had the impression that this is why most people were using it, or simply as a carrier for massage, but not that it would affect growth.


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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER She was trying to help based on her knowledge February 16 2007, 8:52 PM


Hi everyone. I don't find Fennel Fairy's original post offensive. She made it clear that she didn't wish to offend anyone in that post - she made it clear twice. She has a direct style compared to some people, but her intent is clearly to help others by posting all of this. Please, everyone, reflect on this and realise that once attacks begin it takes quite a lot to be able to reply without attacking much back, showing one's credentials about why one might be correct about what is being said, etc.

As a person who has studied science and dermatology, this is her perspective on things, and if it isn't right to post under someone else's thread title or whatever, that's fine. Certain word use like stupid isn't the best, but it's not as personal as it might seem, and she is telling the truth from her perspective.


Group hug! LOL




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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 9:00 PM


That's a good recent post, Fennel Fairy, and that's how I read your post about this and hope that others will, too. I was writing my last post as you wrote your recent one.

I've likely offended people with some of my posts on forums. Sometimes my wording hasn't been the best, but never once did I intend to be offensive, and it was always about trying to tell people the truth as I understood it, etc.

Posting and e-mail can be tricky when we don't know each other personally and can't hear the tones in voices and see facial expressions. Emoticons help, but it's still tricky.




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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 9:08 PM


I probably come across as very blunt because I am a very straight forward person and also, English is not my language. I am unfamiliar with all the "shades" of your language. I shouldn't have used the word "stupid" about this controversial theory, but some people find politics stupid, some find religion stupid and some find pretend-to-be-science stupid, because people tend to believe without questioning. I have a scientific background so I will always be critical of what I read if it clashes with well known and proven facts.

I don't think anyone here is stupid. But I think Edgar Cayce's theory is.


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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 9:14 PM


I think that your direct, scientific style is just fine.


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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 9:51 PM


Edgar Cayce was channeling, something a lot of people don't believe in. He wasn't coming up with theories on growing breasts or anything else, he was basically unconscious and receiving information from some other source.

If you tend to believe in this kind of thing, then he is as good a source of information and advice as any, perhaps better. If you don't believe in channeling and psychics, then you would want proof that cocoa butter works in some way before trying it.

Actually, massaging the body with oils is a very important part of ancient Indian medical tradition (ayurveda) as well, so perhaps the idea that increasing circulation and lymphatic drainage with particular oils is not so far fetched after all. We don't really know all the factors in NBE, in fact, science doesn't even fully understand how the human body works. It would be interesting if Cayce's cures were scientifically proven to work one day, but because I believe in these sorts of things, I don't need to wait for that to use cocoa butter in my NBE program. After all, it works for me!






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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 10:01 PM


As a person who believes in hypnosis and related things, I am open to whatever works in the healthiest way. My scientific and mystic sides are trying to find a balance, I guess!


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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 10:02 PM


I have a strong belief in general that people should worry less about sounding offensive and more about not being unnecesarily offended.


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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 10:20 PM


I too believe in channeling and metaphysics. After all, I adminstrate an occult messageboard. :-) A lot of things that are labelled "supernatural" will probably get scientifically accepted with time, we just don't have the ways to measure and register things like that yet. For instance, quantum physics have been accepted as a fact, at last. It took a long time. And quantum physics makes it possible to explain things like magic and spirits. One has to keep an open mind, because nothing has been proven to be true or false yet in that field.

But it is different when you can actually PROVE that something just isn't physically possible, like putting an elephant inside a hazelnut shell. Then I will NOT believe.


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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 10:44 PM


Hi Fennel Fairy, would you feel comfortable posting a link to your occult message board? I am very interested.


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Fennel Fairy
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 10:54 PM


I don't want to "spam" this place with links to my forum but I can email the link to you.


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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 16 2007, 11:00 PM


Sure, please e-mail it to me. Thank you.


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Anonymous
(Login Teresina) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 4:39 AM


I'm confused about where in Cayce's readings he mentioned that cocoa butter enlarges by being absorbed into the breast and stored as fat? I've read the related paragraphs and didn't see a mention of this being the function of the cocoa butter. My take was that he said it could be helpful without explaining why.

I have read elsewhere that some users believe the fat in cocoa butter can be absorbed and stored in the breast permantently when used with Vitamin E. I was curious for a long time about why they felt the E helped things along and couldn't find any answer. I would guess that, following their line of thinking, it's because E is fat soluable, though I don't personally feel cocoa can penetrate that deeply. It may still be helpful, of course, just not clear on the mechanism.

I've never been a fan of any butters because they do nothing for my skin in terms of moisture, but whatever works for others is great.






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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 9:05 AM


Some theoretical facts:
The basic building unit of fats or lipids ar fatty acids (FAs). There are several classes of fats, the one ment for storage are called triacylglygerols (TAGs), which contain three fatty acids linked on one glycerol. TAG can't cross cell membranes, but FA can. Still, even if cocoa butter contained FAs or if we applied FAs to our breasts, I don't think they would get deposited in the breast. Fats that are deposited in any tissue must be in a certain form - TAGs, packed in special particles called lipoproteins (TAGs + other fats + proteins). Their deposition depends on the ammount of an enzyme called lypoprotein lipase present on the walls of capilares of the tissue, which only hormones can cahange. Fats acquired throuh the skin would travel to the liver with blood, where they would be packed in lipoproteins and then distributed to all parts of the body. So there is no way cocoa butter could deposit fats in the beast.


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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 12:01 PM


It would be very very strange if our bodies accepted a plant fat like that. Breaking down food we eat to create fat for our bodies, sure, but putting it in that way would surely cause major problems. It's complex enough with organ transplants which are human tissue!


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Surf
(Login Surf.)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 2:30 PM


Ok, I feel I've actually learned a lot from this thread. I am not going to stop using cocoa butter. However, I realize now it's more for sealing in extracts and other things than for actual absorption (I don't use it for massaging, I almost always have lathered it on after my nightly massage). I also have learned that fat being deposited to the breast will most likely come from what we ingest, whether it be from the food/drink we consume or what we're taking internally for our NBE program.





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Lillea
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 2:43 PM


Yes, from what I've learned, the substances we use for BE help to direct our breasts to store fat. The same goes for energy work and hypnosis - we are directing our body to store fat in our breasts.


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sue
(no login) RUDE? February 17 2007, 5:01 PM


I am a little confused here. I thought these forums were for people to give their opinion/advice/ask questions. Why are so many of you upset about the comments on Cocoa butter? I have read the message several times and nowhere has the writer been rude. In fact, she has gone out of her way not to be rude. People will be scared to add comments on this forum if they receive such responses.


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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 5:10 PM


But Cayce didn't say that fat was deposited in the breast from the cocoa butter, did he? From the readings, it looks like he is saying that massaging with cocoa butter stimulates the breast glands and this increases size over time.

I think it was a different source that claimed that fat was deposited directly into the breasts from cocoa butter, and that vitamin e helps to retain the 'growth.' That thread is on here somewhere, if you do a search. Seems like about 4 months ago that I saw it.

So, Cayce could still be correct, and massaging with cocoa butter could indeed help to promote NBE. A lot of us have had positive results from it. Just because we don't know how it works does not mean that it doesn't.

Still, this thread seems to indicate that the fat is probably NOT directly deposited into the breasts, which is good to know. At least now we know how it is not working; that's one step closer to understanding how it is working (if it is). Like Surf, I've learned a lot too, and I'll also continue to massage with cocoa butter.





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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER The article/thread February 17 2007, 5:44 PM


The actual thread with this information is on the general reference page, titled "COCOA BUTTER & VITAMIN E MASSAGE CAN ENLARGE BREASTS AND KEEP IT THERE!!"

Here are two snippets of it:

Further to Mr. Cayce's method, it has been found by the applicant that the application of the cocoa butter also on the globe of the breast itself promotes enlargement thereof. It is the applicant's belief that the cocoa butter is absorbed into the breast, hence enlarging the size of the breast by the breast assimilating the cocoa butter and storing the cocoa butter around the gland lobules of the mammary gland connected to the breast therein, by means of the breast assimilating the cocoa butter as fat.

The amount of cocoa butter used is directly proportional to the augmentation of the breast's size. It has been found that approximately 50g of cocoa butter per breast enlarges each breast from an A size bra cup to a B size bra cup.




OK, this was what made me write my initial post about cocoa butter. The article leads people to believe something that is biologically impossible and might give false hopes to people about something that is very important to them. If anyone else wants to have a go at me for pointing out this misinformation, please send the hatemail to my email addy so the rest of the world don't have to read it.

I too have learnt something important from this. Mainly to shut up here in the future.

Kind regards,
Fennelfairy



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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 17 2007, 5:44 PM


I didn't read the early responses in this thred, I see I should, sheesh. Instead labeling someone presenting new info that contradicts the old offensive, one should discredit it with arguments, otherwise I see that as offensive. Much more so when going off-topic with what was the subject of the controvery, cause it was the abilty of oils and butters to deposit fats in the breast, not the utility of massage.


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS The whole pointof post,, February 17 2007, 10:05 PM


Was that if Fennel Fairy had contridicting info,, fine,, start her own info page about it no, not deface someones info page by being rude and telling people it was stupid. She should have started her own info page about the contridiction of info, not be disrespectful on the orginal posters page. That everyone was the whole point to start off with. All calling something Rubbish has nothing to do with anyone's poor english!!! It was just rude.


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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS And,,, February 17 2007, 10:14 PM


None of the new member's were here to remember Sunset excitement about finding that info,, because she was afraid to use herbs,, her routine was fully based on theat info. It was Sunset's Info Page.


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snowdrops
(Login snowdropsfalling) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 18 2007, 2:07 AM


First off I don't even know where sunsets page is nor if fennel posted on the page. I just came to this self entitled thread and though you snowflakes seem so determined about not wrecking people's threads maybe you should listen to your own advice and be more mature and stop forcing your own opinions on others. Fennel wasn't discrediting or forcing her opinion on anyone as you are trying to discredit hers. If you want to go ahead and believe what you want go ahead, just stop saying what she's saying is stupid and stop acting hypocritical. Without everyone's vast opinions we'd all believe one thing which would work for all of us but BE is about different options working for different people. I stick to what I believe and believe it's water retention. I've read on the threads here that many LOOSE their plumpness if not used continuously which leads me to believe it is not permanent and just retention from the oil barrier of cocoa butter.


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Anonymous
(Login Teresina) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 18 2007, 2:57 AM


I've no desire to take a go at anyone and was simply confused and trying to make sure I had the correct info regarding what Cayce himself said. Having now read the original thread in question, I am clear on what this what this thread is addressing and the varying points of view. Thanks.


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Anonymous
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 18 2007, 8:31 AM


Snowflake...

Not only are you ignorant and uneducated, you are also a bully. it is a common thing. When the intellect falls short and people have no arguments left, they often resort to bullying. And you even managed to get a few to join in - I am inpressed! You are accusing me of posting a critical comment in someone elses thread; and what is it that you are doing yourself? You keep picking on me, saying that I am wrong about the cocoa butter, yet you are unable to show us any evidence that proves that I am wrong. And why? Because you know absolutely NOTHING. How many critical posts heve YOU written in MY thread? I have been patient with you for some time now, but I won't put up with your bullying any longer.

For your information, the info thread I added a comment to was not the writers own research. It was a copy & paste article from the internet. So I have hardly done any damage to anybodys hard work and research, just pointed out the obvious misinformation in an article she found online. Anyone who writes a "scientific" report has to expect and handle criticism, and whoever originally wrote that article made a pretty bad job of it.

Just a qoute from one of your previous posts in this thread regarding cocoa butter, Snowflake:

"Is absorbed into the skin and its an oil. It can diminish wrinkles from outside or internally. It can make scars disappear."

1. No, it is not absorbed into the skin.
2. It can't diminish wrinkles. How could it possibly?
3.It doesn't make scars disappear. but sellers of stretch mark cream wants you to believe that.

Those are things you have read, and believed without questioning. And if you think you can argue with me using second hand statements that are based on either commercials or badly informed people on other messageboards, then I will tell you that it is a waste of time for everyone.

Now: You go back to highschool and I will continue to think that the whole idea of adding fat to breast tissue by applying cocoa butter is impossible. Let's agree to disagree. And stop picking on me.




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Tinytwo
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 12:02 PM


like someone else mentioned,, your not the only one here with a degree or an education Fennel. You do seem to have trouble reading the responses. Snowflake clearly stated Vitamin E could heal scars and prevent wrinkles, which is true, I don't think CB was ever said to heals scars. Everyone seems so skeptical about absorption of oils or CB, but I haven't seen anyone ready to give up their CB. I thought this was a forum to reveal the mysteries of natural breast enhancements, not shut it down. Again, no one ever stated the breasts could absorb great amounts of fats, that was truly a overstatement on your part, Fennel. I, like everyone else, will continue to use oils for breast enlargement.


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AtoD4Me
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 2:58 PM


I am new here and don't care about the "scientific facts" its working for me. I've been using coacoa butter for 3 weeks so its AtoD4Me.


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js89
(Login js89)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 3:37 PM


Why are you continuing on and on with this. First you call us all stupid, and now you continue to sling derogatory, mean comments. It’s either your way or the highway.

There are no right or wrong answers. What works for some may not work for others. If cocoa butter works for some, that’s great. Most of the people using it, use it along with their oils. I don’t appreciate being told I’m stupid for doing so, and would never tell others here that they are either. I appreciate the info, it’s food for thought, but I’m still going to do what’s right for me.



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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 3:44 PM


I think it's rather hamful getting so excited about a piece of info that says somehing will work, when one wants it to be true so much that they don't care or want to confirm if it actually is. Nedless to say that us believing something doesn't actually change the truth and it's the truth what we have to work on if we ever want to grow.


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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER PS - February 19 2007, 3:53 PM


Science doesn't say that NBE is not possible, it says is methods haven't been proven to be effective. It's the job of science to prove things, not make assumptions. Any scientist would will bluntly say that NBE is impossible doesn't deserve his/her title.


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Anonymous
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 5:23 PM


Anyone besides me think this has gotten blown way out of proportion? Can't we all just get along? And grow big boobies together? Please!


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Fennel Fairy (now wearing a crash helmet)
(Login fennelfairy)
SENIOR MEMBER Uh oh - Another post on Sunsets info page... February 19 2007, 5:53 PM


Moon - How DARE you post in Sunsets info page?!!? :-)
Watch it, or you'll get publically executed here too!
You are a very brave girl. And intelligent too.

I won't post here anymore. Hell hath no fury like too many women on a messageboard. I'll be hanging out with the guys in the male forum instead. Way less PMS there, and more science potential.


Good luck with the NBE everyone!






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Lisa
(Login lilmama40) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 6:08 PM


No fennelfairey, don't go! I like to hear what you have to say and I value your information! We can't please all of the people all of the time unfortunately. I took your initial post as very respectful and I for one enjoy being open-minded. If we all thought the exact same way about every single thing how boring would that be! And if we could never consider a new piece of information that someone brings to us wouldn't we certainly stop growing? As people that is, not boobies, lol. Hang in there! I think the majority of the people here feel like I do about this, it was just a few people who took it the wrong way. :-)


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Anonymous
(no login) Stay!! February 19 2007, 7:22 PM


Fennel Fairy - I always take notice of your posts and appreciate how informed they are. Please don't pay attention to your one single critic (I doubt there's more than one person who uses double commas - ,,).
Anyone with an ounce of sense can see you have been badly treated, simply for providing helpful information - rather than unfounded guesses.


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Anonymous
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 9:18 PM


It seems a little weird that mumbo jumbo is accepted here without any doubt but when someone writes something medical it is frowned upon. It's not nice to gang up on someone who is trying to be helpful anyhow that is my opinion. I prefer to read things that are facts and not fiction because I want results . And I did not find anythin offensive in that other information page either, i thought her comment there was respectful. If you saw a thread where someone said that you get big boobs if you swallow 3 bubblegums a day along with gasoline, wouldn't you tell them that they were not making sense? just my two cents.


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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 19 2007, 10:04 PM


Hehe, thanx FennelFairy.
But I don't take sides really. I just say what I think and I'm always interested in truth, more than hurting someone's feelings or being in someone's favor. I too think this has gotten blown out of proportion a bit but I just contribute with objective input. I may seem rather cold and indifferent at times. :p
I too think you shouldn't leave FennelFairy. Why the hell? People are different and there's always gonna be some that you won't like and some that you will. If you have a disagreement with someone, make sure that your stance is correct, if not change it, and then you have no reason to leave. It's an inaccurate generalization that a male forum would have more opportunity for science. You will sooner or later see that there's plenty of smart women here who are very interested in learning and civil dicussion without censorship. I trust we'll see you arround!



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Laura
(no login) Fenell Fairy February 19 2007, 10:09 PM


Don't like it ? Don't read it, that was your advice a while ago, lengthy contradictions can end nasty. not worth it.


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BJ
(no login) Re: The truth about cocoa butter... February 22 2007, 6:51 PM


Fennel Fairy please do go! Everyone is entitled to what they believe and if you can't respect that other people have things that DO work for them even if you think it's dumb then you shouldn't be here! I think you are the bully.



annalise
(no login) truth @coa coa butter July 6 2011, 5:13 PM



Hello. I have read a lot of the Edgar Cayce material. As far as I can recall, Cayce did not claim that the breasts store the fat of cocoa butter. My understanding is that cocoa butter contains an acid that causes fat cells to multiply. Therefore , the implication is that the cocoa butter is absorbed into the skin and then the bodies own fat cells multiply. Well wishes.