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Liquid extracts - doses???

#1

Liquid extracts - doses???
February 15 2008 at 6:51 PM Durga (Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER

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Does anyone have information on how to determine the dose amounts in mgs of LIQUID extracts? From my experience, the liquid extracts I've used have you dose by the drop ("30-40 drops per day") and that they only list the strength of the extract. i.e (1:1, 1:2, 1:3...). From my search, I think I've discovered that it's difficult to determine the mgs you are taking, since liquid extracts are measured in mls.

I was hoping, however, someone might have some contrary thought or findings. Is there a way to monitor intake of herbs through a liquid extract?

Durga


(Oops... I had to edit this post, I had put in "2-3" drops per day", instead of "30-40 drops"...too much detail, not enough mindspace...)





Author Reply
Miss Jones
(Login miss.jones) Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 17 2008, 9:56 PM


I'm sure this question's been asked before, but nobody knew what the conversion was from ml to mg.




Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 18 2008, 8:58 PM


Thanks. I was afraid that was an answer I would get.





hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 18 2008, 9:02 PM


Aw Durga, it' not that we are ignoring you it's just no one really knows... if I had even the slightest ability to understand all of that I would so be helping you. I wish I could... maybe try ask on yahoo answers or something? Sometimes I find answers there that aren't NBE related but have to do with other things... good luck though, I hope you figure everything out Smile




Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 18 2008, 9:20 PM


It depends on the liquid you're taking like the molecular weight of the substance but roughly I worked it out that 5ml is about 4800mg. This was based on oils. Let me have another go at the calculations at work tomorrow - I'm too tired now!




Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 18 2008, 9:29 PM


Thanks, Hopefull.

You're very sweet and that is a good suggestion, I'll look into it. I was starting to think that no one wanted to answer, but I'm sure it's because there aren't so many here taking the liquid forms (I think the conversion part was a turn-off, too!). I've also decided to ask my naturopath on my next visit-I really want to know! I'm detail oriented to a fault Smile...and I really think extracts are what I want to use, as they've been very effective for me when I've used them medicinally.

The best to you,
Durga




Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 18 2008, 9:41 PM


Louise,

You must've posted at the same time I was posting above to Hopefull. Thanks for your input, I would really appreciate it. A rough estimate is fine, as it seems that it's impossible to be exact with herbs in this form, anyway. Would you mind sharing the formula for your calculations? (Tomorrow, of course, or when you're not tired!) You rock.

Regards,
Durga




Mango84
(Login Mango84)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 19 2008, 12:42 AM


If your product tells you the ratio of the strength of the extract, here is your conversion chart:

1:1 = 1000 mg of herb per ml
1:2 = 500 mg of herb per ml
1:3 = 333 mg of herb per ml
1:4 = 250 mg of herb per ml
1:5 = 200 mg of herb per ml
1:10 = 100 mg of herb per ml
1:20 = 50 mg of herb per ml

1 oz = 29.57 ml

Hopefully your dropper has the ml amount marked on the dropper, but if it doesn't... 1 ml = 1/4 tsp. The number of drops per ml will vary depending on the fluid and the opening of the dropper.

Mango Smile




Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 19 2008, 4:38 AM


Isn't a teaspon usually taken to be 5ml not 4ml?

I actually have a medicine spoon that says 5ml on it so I use that - should be easy to get.




Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 19 2008, 5:55 AM


Mango84,

Thank you! Your info supports a link that Tap posted, and I wanted to be sure before I rolled with it. Where did you get your conversion from? I'm looking for some good herbal reference guides a/o websites that can answer my tedious questions so I don't have to bother folks here with my not-so-NBE-related questions!

Louise,
1 ml does equal (roughly) 1/4 tsp... and from Mango's conversions above:
5ml=1 1/4 tsp of a 1:1= (approx!) 5,000mg...which isn't far off from your estimate of 4,800 mg!

Take care,
Durga







Mango84
(Login Mango84)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 19 2008, 3:45 PM


There are differences in US, UK, and metric measurements. One metric tsp is 5 ml. US tsp is 4.928 922 ml and UK tsp is 3.551 633 ml. I gave what Greenbush has on their bottles of liquid extracts when I said 1/4 tsp is one ml. It is technically .20 to .28 tsp depending on which system.

Here are some links...I don't know which link Tap gave...maybe these are not duplicates.


http://www.rrreading.com/files/Milligram...iliter.pdf

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

I love the online conversion...you can convert practically anything to anything!

Mango Smile





Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 19 2008, 6:08 PM


Mango,

Thanks again! Yes, the rrreading.com link was the one that Tap posted.

The online conversion is a great resource (no conversion from ml to mgs, but this is explained well enough in the above link!.

The link rrreading.com conversion was from Robyn Klein, a teacher in the of the Department of Plant Sciences and Pathology at Montana State University with a masters in science and medical botany. I suppose she would have to know this info, considering her occupation, no? It makes sense now to me after reading it a few times!

Regards,
Durga






Hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 19 2008, 7:55 PM


Your welcome Durga, and glad to see you are starting to find the answers you need! Wow we're all of you really good in math and sciences in school? because those were my worst subjects




Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 22 2008, 8:42 PM


Have had more of a think about all this, I can't access the original calculations because my hard drive got broken and I'm waiting for data recovery. I calculated it using recipes that called for a certain weight of melted butter because it gave measurements in grams and fluid ounces and then I looked up the conversions. I calculated about 4.8g = 5ml and have since found an online cooking conversion website which calculated it as 4.75g = 5ml so I did quite well. This method won't work properly for dried herbs though because for each individual herb you need to take into account the weight of the substance which is why is was waffling on about molecular weight in the previous post. What we need is some kind person with an accurate set of scientific scales to give us mg per 5ml metric teaspoon for each powdered herb....being the nerd I am I may well have to order the scales and work on this further!




Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 22 2008, 11:30 PM


Louise,

Thanks for your interest in pursuing this. After doing more reading, I was pretty satisfied with the information I was getting- basically, that as stated before, we're trying to pin down phantom numbers for, at best, a rough estimate. "Phantom" being that herbal preparations are never the same twice. Our rough estimate is as close as we'll get. However, I am interested in what you come up with. The more exploration, the more fun ( I guess I'm a nerd, too!)

Louise, I thought this would be helpful to your statement about the molecular weight of the substance being weighed. I'll write it in caps for highlighting purposes...

(I emailed an liquid herbal extract company whose productst I use and this was their reply to my questionSmile

"THE TINCTURE STRENGTH FOUND ON SINGLE HERB EXTRACTS CAN TELL YOU HOW MUCH HERB THE EXTRACT IS MADE FROM. FOR DRIED HERB, IT IS THE WEIGHT OF DRIED HERB AND FOR FRESH HERB EXTRACTS IT IS THE WEIGHT OF FRESH (UNDRIED) HERB. The first number is usually '1' and represents 1 gram, equivalent to 1000 milligrams. Divide this number by the denominator to get the milligrams (mg) of herb that each milliliter of extract was made from. For example, for a 1:4 extract, 1000mg/4 =250mg. So, each milliliter (about 30-35 drops or 1 dropperful) represents 250mg of herb."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, here is some other info that may help us on our search: some excerpts from the rrreading.com link that I thought were helpful:

"How many drops in a teaspoon? The amount of liquid in a drop varies because of altitude and viscosity of an herbal extract. A drop in San Francisco is different than a drop in Denver. The drug/pharmacology paradigm of conventional medicine has us chasing our tails...the least we can do is use metric measurements. So, forget the drop dose and use milliliters..."

-"(the stength of a tinture) is NOT perfect as herb materials differ in solubility...exact amounts are not required for therapeutic efficacy. Herbal medicines are never exactly the same twice." So, with that in mind, let's try and get an idea anyway:

The strength of a tincture is what you see on the label as a ratio of 1:1, 1:2, 1:3,etc. This refers to the WEIGHT of the herb to the VOLUME of menstruum (the medium, usually water and alcohol). Example- a 1:5 tinture means 1 part herb to 5 parts liquid."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought I should include this link:
-www.naturesheart.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ProductInfo+475280877646:

"Currently, no organization or government body regulates the manufacture or certifies the labeling of herbal preparations. This means you can't be sure that the amount of the herb contained in the bottle, or even from dose to dose, is the same as what is stated on the label. Some herbal preparations are standardized, meaning that the preparation is guaranteed to contain a specific amount of the active ingredients of the herb. However, it is still important to ask companies that are making standardized herbal products the basis for their product's guarantee."

Cheers,
Durga






Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 23 2008, 7:25 AM


Hi Durga,

Yes, there's always the unregulated-they-could-be-lying issue! E.g. the single herbs in WU are expensive, how do we know absolutely everything is actually in the tablets? They don't taste of fenugreek that's for sure! Maybe cross between fennel and oregano.


You two explanations surely mean different things:

"The first number is usually '1' and represents 1 gram, equivalent to 1000 milligrams. Divide this number by the denominator to get the milligrams (mg) of herb that each milliliter of extract was made from. For example, for a 1:4 extract, 1000mg/4 =250mg. So, each milliliter (about 30-35 drops or 1 dropperful) represents 250mg of herb."

"The strength of a tincture is what you see on the label as a ratio of 1:1, 1:2, 1:3,etc. This refers to the WEIGHT of the herb to the VOLUME of menstruum (the medium, usually water and alcohol). Example- a 1:5 tinture means 1 part herb to 5 parts liquid."

What we're interested in is the first explanation as that allows you to compare to a mg dose (although there's things like suspension and absorption to consider) but the second one isn't helpful at all - that's just like a volume measure for both so 1 tsp herb to 5 tsp water but we don't know the mg per tsp!

Is there any way you can contact the manufacturer to find out what their ratio means?




Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? February 23 2008, 8:26 AM


Louise,

I'm way past due for some sleep in my part of the world, so I apologize if I'm disorganized or slow on this. All the zeros and colons are making me dizzy, but I'll give it a go!

The first explanation IS what the manufacturer told me their ratio means.

The second explanation was the preface to the ratios that Tap/Mango/rrreading.com listed.

So, from both these sources it is agreed:

-1 kilo (1,000 grams) dried herb to 1 liter (1,000 ml) menstruum=1:1 liquid extract. And so on...
-1 kilo (1,000 grams) dried herb to 4 liters (4,000 ml) menstruum=1:4 liquid extract

Thus,

-1,000 mg of dried herb to 1 ml of menstruum (in a 1:1 extract)
-250 mg dried herb to 1 ml of menstruum (in a 1:4 extract)

Time for bed!
Durga




Joey
(Login Joeykk) Re: Liquid extracts- doses??? May 13 2008, 3:36 PM


what exactly are the measurements of the number of drops that you should take, for greenbush.net extracts?

I am planning on buying the extracts when I run out of my herbs becuase I think that they may work better for me. I don't have a problem with just sucking it up and just taking gross stuff.

Any help would be great. I may just ask the company. I'm still looking for the answer on the forum.




JUST JB SYKLEWRENCH UNDERGROUND PERFORMACE
(Login UNDERGROUNDPERFORMANCE)
SENIOR MEMBER Liquid extracts- doses??? May 13 2008, 7:54 PM



HELLO, DURGA

THIS IS OFF THE GREEN BUSH SITE. : )
LET ME KNOW IF AN QUESTION'S COME UP SEE REGINA'S TRAVALS PROGOGRAM'S HER USE OF PRODUCT'S..

JB

Usage Guidelines for Using Extracts for Breast Enhancement.

When using all three herbs start with 1/2 ml of each herb 3 times per day. (Use the calibrated droppers in the 2 oz bottles. 1/2 ml is also equal to 1/8 teaspoon or 22 drops).

Also use 1/2 ml of each herb in 2 tablespoons of lotion for massage. Massage for about 5 minutes each night and leave the mixture on overnight if possible.

Some women will want to increase the use of the extracts for faster results. You may increase to 1 ml of each herb 3 times per day over a period of time.

If you are using some extracts in place of the tea or capsules from one of the other kits, use 1/2 ml to replace one capsule or 1 ml to replace a cup of tea.

If you are using the extracts individually for other purposes or benefits follow the instructions on the bottles.
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