[girljustgoingalong]

Hi everyone,

First of all, I don't intend for this topic to cause anger or controversy. I simply want to put this out there for thought.

I've been a member of these boards for quite a while now, but I never managed to finish a "full" NBE journey. Before I could make it to six months, I would always get interrupted by life and my whole program would fall apart.

I was thinking of starting a new NBE program soon, what with the new year and everything. But then I happened to see a documentary called Pink Ribbons, Inc., which has caused me to second guess the idea. The documentary is mostly about the capitalist and business side of the whole "pink ribbon" movement, but there was a section where they spoke about how we know almost next to nothing about what causes breast cancer in the first place. Only 20% of women with breast cancer actually had any of the risk factors we're all told to watch out for.

Then they started talking about the food we eat and our environment and how it's a likely cause that's been getting overlooked. They visited a factory where a lot of the women were getting breast cancer, and it turned out that the materials they were working with had a "estrogen-like" qualities. They spoke about certain milks that have been banned in Canada and other countries due to its phytoestrogenic contents. Breast cancer patients are often advised to stay away from soy and other nutrients that mimic estrogenic qualities.

Now, as someone who's been interested in herbal NBE for a long time, I know that the concerns about breast cancer are not new. Once in a while, on Eve's old board, someone would post a topic about the subject. But it seems like most of the answers were from members convinced that phytoestrogens serve to protect us against breast cancer, rather than as aggressors that cause the disease.

I think this is a dangerous myth to spread, because it is simply not that clear. All one has to do is google "phytoestrogens and breast cancer" to come up with several studies basically saying that scientists have not been able to decide yet if phytoestrogens CAUSE or PREVENT breast cancer. There are studies that suggest they protect us, but there are others that suggest they harm us and make us vulnerable to cancer.

Since what we're doing with herbal NBE is deliberately seeking for supplements that have these estrogen-like qualities, I think we should all be aware that there is a real risk involved here.

Again, my intention for starting this topic is not to cause controversy, but to encourage others out there to think more about what it is that they're doing. It seems to me like most NBE forums have this belief that phytoestrogens are awesome and positive as if it's already been scientifically proven that they're definitely not harmful, when that's not the case at all. If you guys research into all the uncertainty concerning phytoestrogen and cancer and you feel that you're still convinced that it's harmless and that NBE is worth the risk, then that's great, but at least you will have thought about it more beforehand. If you decide that you don't think you're willing to take the risk, then that's great too.

As for me, I'm starting to lean more towards the Not Willing To Take The Risk side of things. After seeing all those women speak about their cancer, I just don't know if it's worth putting myself in a possibly more risky health situation than is necessary. I've been feeling more comfortable with my natural breast size lately anyway, so I think I can be happy by letting them be the way they are.

Thanks for reading everyone. =)

[AbiDrew85]

You are correct...

We really don't know the full complexities of what is or is not harmful to us when it comes to the vast majority of the things we use.

I think as more research is done, however, they're going to find that the "all estrogens are not equal" extends down further to "all phytoestrogens aren't equal either!"

I have a suspicion that we're going to find the estrols and isoflavones are among the safest and that it's the xenoestrogens that we REALLY need to watch out for.

If more research is even done... Pfizer's done a VERY good job of scaring people off of estrogen research with their bogus claims that all estrogens ARE equal, so Premarin while bad isn't really all that bad... Yeah... Right.

[Molly H]

It's probably worth making the point that the country with the highest natural consumption of phytoestrogens, Japan, also has the lowest rate of breast cancer. Plus women of Japanese origin who live in the USA and have a typical American diet have typical Western rates of breast cancer. Countries where most people eat little or no phytoestrogens in their diets have something like double the breast cancer rate of Japan.

Obviously everyone has to see things in their own way and make their own decision, but I personally would not avoid phytoestrogens because I think it would be too big a risk to do so. When breast cancer rates are so high in Western countries I see phytoestrogens as something which offers real hope of protection.

[BonitaDDs]

What 'materials" were the factort women working with probably not natural most chance to be chemical made like artificial lab made estrogen has more unwanted side effect to phytoestrogen would be interesting if anyone knows more but yes i an not put off nbe because i am sure much more chemicals in other unavoidable places.
Most nbe herbs say not to use if you have estrogen effected cancer to avoid but this is if you already have it not saying it causes just i am guessing that it could enlarge if the cancer there the way the tissues around enlarge with nbe like if you have some cancer in your breasts you want to shrink it your not going to grow breast bigger because the whole area including cancer could grow.

[rubric]

Thanks, OP, for starting this thread.

I'm hoping to begin NBE and the relationship between breast cancer and phytoestrogens is one of my main concerns, especially since both my grandmothers died of breast cancer.

I've read about how phytoestrogens *may* have negative effects on post-menopausal women, but postive effects on pre-menopausal women. Again, research appears to be inconclusive. As I'm most interested in PM at the moment, I tried searching Google Scholar for breast cancer and the two phytoestrogens associated with PM but I do not have a science background and find it almost impossible to understand the papers.

I believe that some forum members should be sufficiently equipped to read scholarly journal articles and interpret the findings. I personally prefer to know the risks involved with pytoestrogens and how to minimise them, rather than having blind faith on some urban myths. For me, while it's good to have bigger boobies--since I'm underdeveloped--it's probably not worth risking breast cancer for that! Hoping to hear from the collective wisdom of ladies on this forum, and here's wishing us all good health and fruitful growing!

[justalittlemore]

Due to my family history of breast cancer, this is an issue that concerns me. Estrogen can be a good thing, especially since it's responsible for the majority of our secondary sex characteristics, including breast growth.

It is true that prolonged exposure to estrogen is a risk factor for breast cancer. That is why overweight women, women who began menstruating early, and those who used HRT with primarily estrogens have an increased risk of breast cancer. Fat cells will churn out more estrogen, increasing exposure. Early menarche brings a greater lifetime exposure to estrogen, as does estrogen-only HRT. This is especially harmful for women who develop estrogen-dependent breast tumors, those which grow in response to higher estrogen levels or greater estrogen exposure.

I think it's crucial to not confuse xenoestrogens with phytoestrogens. The former are man-made compounds that mimic the actions of the natural estrogens in the body, and they are much stronger than phytoestrogens. That is most likely what you saw on your program. Phytoestrogens are natural estrogen-like compounds from plant sources. They tend to fill the estrogen receptors in the body, lengthening cyckles and lowering lifetime exposure to estrogen, and with it the breast cancer risk. I think it's safe to say that we all use phytoestrogens in our programs, not xenoestrogens.