15-02-2016, 14:54
SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009 at 4:31 AM aerie (Login aerie84)
my title is saying that Im gonna get all scientific on everyone and give all a suggestion.
Ive been noticing, what with cheryl, and all these males on here that are trying nbe and developing so quickly...why?? it seems to me that males are getting better results than girls.
what im thinking is that..maybe...we are not putting into our bodies what we need.
what im saying is, the males are putting all this estrogen into their bodies that they never had in such high quantities before, and therefore SHOCKING their body into developing breasts, butt, etc.
Maybe, just maybe, we are putting more of what we ALREADY have into our bodies that just not gonna work...
we need a way to SHOCK our bodies into developing breasts. kind of like exercise, when you keep doing the same routine for a while your body gets used to it and you dont get much of any results with playing the same sport for example. Once you switch it up and try yoga and rock climbing instead of jogging, you start losing weight and your muscles start developing like crazy because you have just shocked your body into using muscles that werent really used before.
heres my theory and id really like it if evryone would comment..
what if women were to take testosterone supplements for a while, like say, a month...and then all of a sudden STOP and start taking ESTROGEN products like pueraria mirifica strong??
do you see where Im getting at??
not sure if it makes sense or if its even healthy but it is a hypothesis that would be interesting to test out.
troubled
(Login Smallsad)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 4:34 AM
It most definitely would be nice to test out and all that, but doesn't testosterone result in hair? ..I mean, well of course..
I don't know
! nice hypothesis though
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 9:48 AM
I think you'd just give yourself a huge hornonal imbalance and ruin your chances even more. If there's a reason why men are growing breasts easier than woman it's much more complex. But we couldn't even say that's true for sure, I don't think there have been enoguh cases to compare.
new
(Login violette7)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 9:50 AM
Do not take testosterone!!! ever! it will grow facial hair bear on you and really it has horribl effect on looks. Just take breaks if you want or take progesterone suplements like vitex or whatever and then start with estrogen again.
I have seen sports women looking exactly like men because of steroids it is not something you want!
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 1:44 PM
Not to mention testosterone would mess big time with the menstrual cycle and fertility.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 2:53 PM
Hi Aerie,
Supplementing testosterone does not shut down estrogen. Your idea is interesting but to do what you are thinking would require the suppression of estrogen.
Women who have been through estrogen positive cancers take drugs that suppress estrogen. This does not raise any hormone in their body, but rather keeps the estrogen receptors from linking to the estrogen molecule.
For someone without the need, to deliberately shut down their estrogen would bring on a series of symptoms. I have outlined all these symptoms in the information for newcomers section on the main page. (estrogen dominance and estrogen deficiency).
In other words you would be creating menopause and all the symptoms that come with it. One of those symptoms can be loss of breast size...
Your proposed restart of then using a potent phytoestrogen to SHOCK the body would probably do that. Yes the breasts would likely increase - to probably where they were before you reduced them by reducing your estrogen. However, there could be some slight increase. Especially if you also used vitex to increase your body's supply of progesterone.
The health implications of what you are pondering (complete estrogen shutdown) are serious. Sometimes the body will never go back to normal when a hormone is reduced or removed for a sufficient period of time. This would likely lead to infertility.
Also - manipulating hormones can cause a roller coaster effect that has hormones too high/low for a very long time.
At least however, in the scenario I outlined you would not be introducing testosterone into your system which would be so much worse.
I am glad you are thinking things over.
You could theoretically reduce your total body estrogen by blocking your estrogen receptors with some low potency phytoestrogen like crushed flaxseed. The lower dosage phytoestrogen in enough quantities would link to your estrogen receptors and prevent them from linking to your body made more potent estrogen.
For those with estrogen dominance this is exactly what we do in order to balance the amount of estrogen to the amount of progesterone available in our body.
You could try this on a very limited and controlled scale by taking crushed flaxseed for a couple of months along with vitex and then use PM externally after that. This should not cause you a total shutdown in estrogen, but might do what you are thinking. MIGHT.
You would be experimenting but if done with an eye for troubling symptoms it should be safe enough.
Best wishes,
waxignmoon
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 4:06 PM
I know someone who tried something similar. It didn't work.
One of the problems with it is that no one is pouring estrogen into their bodies. Herbs are thousands of times weaker than the real thing. They are not even in the same ball park. That is why you see BE or NBE, not BG or NBG. The only way that breast *growth* can occur as opposed to breast enlargement is to get the body to use real estrogen (& etc.) to do it, or to compensate for some blockage in the body not allowing them to grow for those still in the growing years (up to age 26).
It's good that you have those wheels turning! That's how understanding is increased and progress is made.
The reality in this subject is that males don't grow breasts, they encourage a physical disorder called gynecomastia. The growing and enlarging of breasts on women is a far different subject.
Aerie
(Login aerie84)
Estrogen
August 30 2009, 12:30 AM
Wahaika,
what is it that can reproduce the strong estrogen in our bodies?? Is this maybe birth control? Aren't there estrogen pills??
hematin
(Login hematin)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 2:32 AM
bad idea, i say.
I am a health care professional but i dont post as much even though this forum as helped enormously.
The one thing that "I think" is helping me the most is the CFS ! It is also making me somewhat fat. I dont know for sure if that is doing it or my attempt to eat more carbs. something is going on and I have more boobs and thight+ass ?
Aerie
(Login aerie84)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 6:20 AM
Thanks for the input but I don't understand. Aren't we trying to grow boobs??? Not fat or pooches?? I mean am I the only one who can get bigger boobs by gaining weigt? Sure if I pig out on carbs and meat n everything my boobs get bigger too. Without herbs. Doesn't everbodys? If I lose weight they get smaller, isn't this normal? I thought the point of nbe was to enlarge breasts. Didn't know it included everything else cuz I don't need herbs for that lol. Sorry just really confused and rather dissapointed.
milani
(Login millanii)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 11:46 AM
Dont be disappointed!! It is possible to grow boobs without gaining fat everywhere else! Most women wouldnt bother if that was the case. I have grown boobs without gaining weight, some women are just unfortunate that they gain weight from some of the herbs or foods they eat and so need to be careful what they take (on the other hand some are trying to gain weight).
wannabecee
(Login wannabecee)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 2:46 PM
I'm feeling the same way as you, Aerie. I've put on more on my thighs and butt than my breasts and it is harder than ever to lose weight. i truly am trying - uh, cantaloupe half for lunch and all that...
I'm going to try the noogleberry and see how that works. IT's boobs I'm after - not plumpness all over. It is a bit disappointing...
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 5:58 PM
Aerie,
The real (strong) estrogen is produced in the ovaries. BC is usually not a pure estrogen, for those that use estrogen, they always have an "ethyl" or a "methyl" or something else bound to them so that they can be patentable. But this also makes them unnatural and conducive to side effects and cancer.
Pure estrodiol is probably available out there somewhere by prescription, but it would be a big mistake to self administer something like that.
Wahaika
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 6:01 PM
Hematin,
My brain is a little slow this morning. I keep thinking CFS stands for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
CFS?
Thanks,
Wahaika
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 6:50 PM
Supplying estrogen that is body strength without a balance of progesterone is a recipe for uterine cancer. They discovered this when they first started using birth control pills. They only prescribe estrogen only pills for women who do not have a uterus.
Men can use estrogen only at high potency because they do not have a uterus.
Most phytoestrogens are not nearly as strong as our body's own estrogen which makes them relatively safe to use and in some studies they have been shown to provide a protective effect.
Artificial estrogens and a very few potent phytoestrogens are likely to be harmful when used without an adequate supply of progesterone.
By the way Wahaika, CFS stands for Chicken Feet Soup. I was like you the first time I ran across that abbreviation... ?? she used chronic fatigue syndrome?? ... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Melonita
(Login melonita)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 7:16 PM
I love thinking of different ways to achieve breast growth too - not that I would ever try anything like the above;-)
But what I was thinking recently, how about using phyto-estrogens the first half of your cycle, when estrogen is naturally low. Then the second half of the cycle using natural Progesterone cream. Or would there be nog effect at all this way (both types cancelling each other??) I also read that a combi of (chemical) estrogen and progesterone could cause cancer, would that be the same with a combi of the natural hormones?
But I was just wondering if this would do the trick in the boob department;-) I mean, wouldn't more hormones in general (in the right balance) be good for NBE? Or at least help when you have both estrogen and progesterone deficiency?
Ah, it's just my mind spinning to find THE answer lol
wannabecee
(Login wannabecee)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
September 1 2009, 12:39 PM
It's not exactly shocking the breasts to develop, but cycling herbs can help. that would be missing doses here and there and also skipping a massage at times. it keeps the body "guessing" and helps avoid stall. I recommend reading what Wahaika wrote on this topic (and pretty much all that he's written - it's quite brilliant)
xx
wannabecee
chocogirl
(Login chocogirl)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
September 1 2009, 6:30 PM
What I think is that even though we have estrogen in our bodies it does not activate the breast receptors.So massage in order to activate those receptors would work..Massage and soy milk has worked for me so far but I want more growth and I have stalled.
August 28 2009 at 4:31 AM aerie (Login aerie84)
my title is saying that Im gonna get all scientific on everyone and give all a suggestion.
Ive been noticing, what with cheryl, and all these males on here that are trying nbe and developing so quickly...why?? it seems to me that males are getting better results than girls.
what im thinking is that..maybe...we are not putting into our bodies what we need.
what im saying is, the males are putting all this estrogen into their bodies that they never had in such high quantities before, and therefore SHOCKING their body into developing breasts, butt, etc.
Maybe, just maybe, we are putting more of what we ALREADY have into our bodies that just not gonna work...
we need a way to SHOCK our bodies into developing breasts. kind of like exercise, when you keep doing the same routine for a while your body gets used to it and you dont get much of any results with playing the same sport for example. Once you switch it up and try yoga and rock climbing instead of jogging, you start losing weight and your muscles start developing like crazy because you have just shocked your body into using muscles that werent really used before.
heres my theory and id really like it if evryone would comment..
what if women were to take testosterone supplements for a while, like say, a month...and then all of a sudden STOP and start taking ESTROGEN products like pueraria mirifica strong??
do you see where Im getting at??
not sure if it makes sense or if its even healthy but it is a hypothesis that would be interesting to test out.
troubled
(Login Smallsad)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 4:34 AM
It most definitely would be nice to test out and all that, but doesn't testosterone result in hair? ..I mean, well of course..
I don't know
! nice hypothesis thoughMoon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 9:48 AM
I think you'd just give yourself a huge hornonal imbalance and ruin your chances even more. If there's a reason why men are growing breasts easier than woman it's much more complex. But we couldn't even say that's true for sure, I don't think there have been enoguh cases to compare.
new
(Login violette7)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 9:50 AM
Do not take testosterone!!! ever! it will grow facial hair bear on you and really it has horribl effect on looks. Just take breaks if you want or take progesterone suplements like vitex or whatever and then start with estrogen again.
I have seen sports women looking exactly like men because of steroids it is not something you want!
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 1:44 PM
Not to mention testosterone would mess big time with the menstrual cycle and fertility.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 2:53 PM
Hi Aerie,
Supplementing testosterone does not shut down estrogen. Your idea is interesting but to do what you are thinking would require the suppression of estrogen.
Women who have been through estrogen positive cancers take drugs that suppress estrogen. This does not raise any hormone in their body, but rather keeps the estrogen receptors from linking to the estrogen molecule.
For someone without the need, to deliberately shut down their estrogen would bring on a series of symptoms. I have outlined all these symptoms in the information for newcomers section on the main page. (estrogen dominance and estrogen deficiency).
In other words you would be creating menopause and all the symptoms that come with it. One of those symptoms can be loss of breast size...
Your proposed restart of then using a potent phytoestrogen to SHOCK the body would probably do that. Yes the breasts would likely increase - to probably where they were before you reduced them by reducing your estrogen. However, there could be some slight increase. Especially if you also used vitex to increase your body's supply of progesterone.
The health implications of what you are pondering (complete estrogen shutdown) are serious. Sometimes the body will never go back to normal when a hormone is reduced or removed for a sufficient period of time. This would likely lead to infertility.
Also - manipulating hormones can cause a roller coaster effect that has hormones too high/low for a very long time.
At least however, in the scenario I outlined you would not be introducing testosterone into your system which would be so much worse.
I am glad you are thinking things over.
You could theoretically reduce your total body estrogen by blocking your estrogen receptors with some low potency phytoestrogen like crushed flaxseed. The lower dosage phytoestrogen in enough quantities would link to your estrogen receptors and prevent them from linking to your body made more potent estrogen.
For those with estrogen dominance this is exactly what we do in order to balance the amount of estrogen to the amount of progesterone available in our body.
You could try this on a very limited and controlled scale by taking crushed flaxseed for a couple of months along with vitex and then use PM externally after that. This should not cause you a total shutdown in estrogen, but might do what you are thinking. MIGHT.
You would be experimenting but if done with an eye for troubling symptoms it should be safe enough.
Best wishes,
waxignmoon
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 28 2009, 4:06 PM
I know someone who tried something similar. It didn't work.
One of the problems with it is that no one is pouring estrogen into their bodies. Herbs are thousands of times weaker than the real thing. They are not even in the same ball park. That is why you see BE or NBE, not BG or NBG. The only way that breast *growth* can occur as opposed to breast enlargement is to get the body to use real estrogen (& etc.) to do it, or to compensate for some blockage in the body not allowing them to grow for those still in the growing years (up to age 26).
It's good that you have those wheels turning! That's how understanding is increased and progress is made.
The reality in this subject is that males don't grow breasts, they encourage a physical disorder called gynecomastia. The growing and enlarging of breasts on women is a far different subject.
Aerie
(Login aerie84)
Estrogen
August 30 2009, 12:30 AM
Wahaika,
what is it that can reproduce the strong estrogen in our bodies?? Is this maybe birth control? Aren't there estrogen pills??
hematin
(Login hematin)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 2:32 AM
bad idea, i say.
I am a health care professional but i dont post as much even though this forum as helped enormously.
The one thing that "I think" is helping me the most is the CFS ! It is also making me somewhat fat. I dont know for sure if that is doing it or my attempt to eat more carbs. something is going on and I have more boobs and thight+ass ?
Aerie
(Login aerie84)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 6:20 AM
Thanks for the input but I don't understand. Aren't we trying to grow boobs??? Not fat or pooches?? I mean am I the only one who can get bigger boobs by gaining weigt? Sure if I pig out on carbs and meat n everything my boobs get bigger too. Without herbs. Doesn't everbodys? If I lose weight they get smaller, isn't this normal? I thought the point of nbe was to enlarge breasts. Didn't know it included everything else cuz I don't need herbs for that lol. Sorry just really confused and rather dissapointed.
milani
(Login millanii)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 11:46 AM
Dont be disappointed!! It is possible to grow boobs without gaining fat everywhere else! Most women wouldnt bother if that was the case. I have grown boobs without gaining weight, some women are just unfortunate that they gain weight from some of the herbs or foods they eat and so need to be careful what they take (on the other hand some are trying to gain weight).
wannabecee
(Login wannabecee)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 2:46 PM
I'm feeling the same way as you, Aerie. I've put on more on my thighs and butt than my breasts and it is harder than ever to lose weight. i truly am trying - uh, cantaloupe half for lunch and all that...
I'm going to try the noogleberry and see how that works. IT's boobs I'm after - not plumpness all over. It is a bit disappointing...
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 5:58 PM
Aerie,
The real (strong) estrogen is produced in the ovaries. BC is usually not a pure estrogen, for those that use estrogen, they always have an "ethyl" or a "methyl" or something else bound to them so that they can be patentable. But this also makes them unnatural and conducive to side effects and cancer.
Pure estrodiol is probably available out there somewhere by prescription, but it would be a big mistake to self administer something like that.
Wahaika
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 6:01 PM
Hematin,
My brain is a little slow this morning. I keep thinking CFS stands for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
CFS?
Thanks,
Wahaika
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 6:50 PM
Supplying estrogen that is body strength without a balance of progesterone is a recipe for uterine cancer. They discovered this when they first started using birth control pills. They only prescribe estrogen only pills for women who do not have a uterus.
Men can use estrogen only at high potency because they do not have a uterus.
Most phytoestrogens are not nearly as strong as our body's own estrogen which makes them relatively safe to use and in some studies they have been shown to provide a protective effect.
Artificial estrogens and a very few potent phytoestrogens are likely to be harmful when used without an adequate supply of progesterone.
By the way Wahaika, CFS stands for Chicken Feet Soup. I was like you the first time I ran across that abbreviation... ?? she used chronic fatigue syndrome?? ... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Melonita
(Login melonita)
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
August 30 2009, 7:16 PM
I love thinking of different ways to achieve breast growth too - not that I would ever try anything like the above;-)
But what I was thinking recently, how about using phyto-estrogens the first half of your cycle, when estrogen is naturally low. Then the second half of the cycle using natural Progesterone cream. Or would there be nog effect at all this way (both types cancelling each other??) I also read that a combi of (chemical) estrogen and progesterone could cause cancer, would that be the same with a combi of the natural hormones?
But I was just wondering if this would do the trick in the boob department;-) I mean, wouldn't more hormones in general (in the right balance) be good for NBE? Or at least help when you have both estrogen and progesterone deficiency?
Ah, it's just my mind spinning to find THE answer lol
wannabecee
(Login wannabecee)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
September 1 2009, 12:39 PM
It's not exactly shocking the breasts to develop, but cycling herbs can help. that would be missing doses here and there and also skipping a massage at times. it keeps the body "guessing" and helps avoid stall. I recommend reading what Wahaika wrote on this topic (and pretty much all that he's written - it's quite brilliant)
xx
wannabecee
chocogirl
(Login chocogirl)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: SCIENCE and Shocking the Body into developing breasts
September 1 2009, 6:30 PM
What I think is that even though we have estrogen in our bodies it does not activate the breast receptors.So massage in order to activate those receptors would work..Massage and soy milk has worked for me so far but I want more growth and I have stalled.