(06-12-2020, 23:55)supacutiemelonpan Wrote: Hi all! I have plans to start a new program but I'm questioning the efficacy because I'm not including P.M. or B.O. (I experienced negative side effects on both) here's my plan so far:
For starters, I have a hormonal IUD, and I'm taking Spironolactone for hormonal acne and unwanted hair growth.
Morning
-Collagen + Vitamin C
-15 mg soy isolate protein shake (protein powder+whole lactose-free milk)
-690mg Omega-3 Fish Oil
-2000mg MSM
-8oz Spearmint tea
I take 50mg Spironolactone around 11am. I work a standard shift 9-5 and then workout when I come home
After workout:
-Another 15mg protein shake
-8oz spearmint tea
Before bed:
-30 to 45 minutes of massage with jojoba oil (once a week dermarolling beforehand)
Obviously I will need to try it for a few months to see. I used to just do spearmint tea + massage (before I got on Spiro) and while my breasts were more full and plump, they would deflate back to their original size once my period started. Anybody have any other advice?
Birth control and spironolactone are very strong antiandrogens, so you probably do not need another antiandrogen like spearmint in your program, but it probably won’t hurt you to finish up your current supply of tea if you want to. And if you are taking soy for the phytoestrogens, rather than just for protein, you need “full fat soy flour”, not defatted soy flour, or soy protein. Soy protein shake powder doesn’t have anywhere near as much phytoestrogens as full fat soy flour. A few people have grown by using soy as their primary source of phytoestrogens, but not many, because the phytoestrogens in soy are very weak. It seems like you may be avoiding strong phytoestrogens due to side effects, but the real animal estrogens in BO, and the very strong phytoestrogens in PM are not really comparable to the phytoestrogens found in most other NBE herbs. The strong phytoestrogens found in hops, red clover, and alfalfa are much stronger than the phytoestrogens in soy, but they’re still nowhere near as estrogenic as PM or BO. You could probably use any of those three herbs without suffering any of the estrogenic side effects that you got from PM and BO. It’s probably also worth pointing out that the vast majority of successful herbal programs on this forum have included large doses of fenugreek. Fenugreek contains a large amount of steroidal saponins, and its not at all clear how saponins increase breast growth, but they do seem to be doing something very important for NBE, even if we don’t know exactly what or how. Many people claim that fenugreek increases prolactin, but that hasn’t been proven, and it may or may not work by some other mechanism. All I know is that even though fenugreek seems to have a more impressive track record than any other supplement on this forum, it rarely works on its own. It seems to need to be combined with a stronger source of phytoestrogens, or frequent heavy massage, or both in order to work. If you choose to use soy flour as your main source of phytoestrogens, I would still include plenty of fenugreek. Fenugreek really does make you smell like maple syrup, and some people hate that, but I personally didn’t mind the scent at all. If you want a similar supplement that wont make you smell like a pancake, you could try shatavari because its also very high in steroidal saponins, but it doesn’t have the strong track record that fenugreek has.
