20-04-2011, 10:23
Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work?
July 15 2009 at 7:55 AM Gumbyy (Login gumbyy)
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Hi. I'm new to the forum. I'm a man, and I want to devise a NBE program for my girlfriend, who is Asian and doesn't understand English.
She's 34 years old, has had one child 12 years ago, is about 163 cm (5 feet 4 inches) tall and weighs about 50 kg (110 pounds). I'm not sure what her cup size is, probably AA.
She recently started massaging her breasts and they seem to be getting bigger. I've been doing NBE research on the internet and now want to add some herbs to her program.
The problem is, where we live most of the herbs for NBE are not available. Stuff like saw palmetto, borage and evening primrose oil are very difficult or impossible to find here, and if you can find them, they are many times more expensive than they are in, say, the US. There are no health food shops here. I suppose I could have these herbs sent from the US, but it gets pretty expensive with shipping and import taxes.
I DID manage to find fenugreek seeds here at a Chinese medicine shop. I think I can probably also find fennel, which is also used in Chinese medicine.
Using only these two herbs, can I devise a good program for her? What dosages would you recommend? I have searched the forum a bit and see that a lot of people recommend only 1500 mg per day of fenugreek, and to go up in dosage as needed. But it can be difficult to know if an increase is needed when you don't know if the breast growth is attributable to the massage alone or the herbs, or a combination of both.
I've read that other therapeutic uses of Fenugreek recommend much higher doses, like 6 grams a day or more. And I've also read opinions that 1500 mg is too low to have much, if any, BE effect.
Should she start out with only fenugreek, or a combination of fenugreek and fennel? And what would good dosages be in each case?
Since I can only find hard fenugreek seeds here, and not capsules, I was thinking that the best way for her to eat them would be to soak them in water overnight to soften them, then eat them and drink the water, like they do in India. Is that a good idea? I am concerned that if she just swallows whole hard seeds, they will pass through her system undigested, like many seeds do. Crushing the seeds is possible but adds more labor and requires appropriate tools.
I've also shown her info about Noogleberry and similar devices, and she is very interested in that. But I wonder, can Noogleberry do better than massage and herbs? Or can massage and herbs alone be just as effective?
Thanks very much for any help!
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 1:29 PM
Hi Gumbyy,
I am sure your girlfriend appreciates all the research you are doing for her. It is nice that she has such support from you in her quest.
It is possible to grow from just massage. Fenugreek and Fennel have a track record of good results as well.
In the case of all herbs it is a matter of finding the lowest dosage that works. All herbs should be 'ramped up' - in other words, start with a small dosage and increase slowly. When either size increase occurs or there are signs of growth starting such as tingles or pains in the breast then the dosage should be held at that level. Too much of any herb can swamp receptors. Many women have had good results only to have the increases stop because they took too much of something. There results resume after they cut down on the herb and the receptors are able to reset.
As far as Fenugreek - watch out for blood sugar issues at levels above 1500mg. I personally had blood sugar issues at that level (fatigue, dizziness, etc).
Your idea of soaking the seeds sounds fine. The seed needs to be broken down either by chewing or crushing the seed before eating.
I have used the Noogleberry and it is a great device. At first its gains are temporary, but they appear very quickly for many women. This is a device that must be used consistently for a very long time to produce permanent results. (years of daily use) It is easy to use and when done properly, very gentle to the breasts. It would not interfere with the use of herbs and could be used exclusively to create breast growth. It is my primary form of NBE now since herbs negatively effected my health. To find out more about this device check out the Noogleberry forum and definitely research there before you buy it.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Sukidoll
(Login sukidoll)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 7:33 PM
Hey Gumby,
a NBE-er by the name of Fennel Fairy used a combination fenugreek and fennel.
Heres her program page: http://www.network54.com/Forum/482052/th...BE+program
She also posted this:
"I use the actual seeds. I add boiling water to the seeds and let it brew until it has cooled down, then drink the liquid. I use the same lot of herbs twice. I reckon they let out more active ingredients once their shells have been softened up by hot water already once. I put about half a cup of fennel seeds and some fenugreek and cover it in boiling water, then sif it off and use again. I do this twice in the morning and twice in the evening. Then I take a tablespoons worth of fenugreek seeds a day, swallow it down with water."
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...h+on+herbs-
I am sure there were some posts with regards to herb amounts and ramping, but I'm a little tired to try find it now. Best of luck
MrsJimHalpert
(Login MrsJimHalpert) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 7:43 PM
hey there,
how awesome of you to help your girlfriend out and be so supportive. <3
i'm not sure about answering your other questions, but i am now a huge believer in massage.
i was doing this for over 2 years simply taking herbs [fenugreek, saw palmetto, etc] with absolutely no results. the last few weeks, i have switched from internally swallowing the herbs to using liquid extracts and massaging 2x a day [dilligently, i have not missed a massage yet]. i also use vitamin e oil to massage. my boyfriend and i have both noticed results already. the other day he said they looked quite bigger. i am not measuring though, so i dont know for sure.
MrsJimHalpert
(Login MrsJimHalpert) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 7:48 PM
also, i dont think the noogleberry is necessary.
i wonder if there would be a way you could use the fenugreek seeds for massage, like as a breast mask. ive read that putting the herbs directly on the breasts is more effective bc it is absorbed by the skin and goes directly into the bloodstream whereas swallowing the herbs, about 80% gets filtered out by the liver.
to make a breast mask using capsules or powder, you soak the powder in olive oil for a week. maybe grinding the seeds in a coffee grinder can have the same effect? if you have a coffee grinder, that is.
gumbyy
(Login gumbyy) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 16 2009, 7:25 AM
I'm so gratified by all your responses. Thanks so much. Okay, I can start her on 1500 mg of soaked fenugreek seeds a day. That's a really small amount, since 1 teaspoon = 4.5 grams. Would she take this once a day, or divide the dose and take several times a day? And with food, or without?
Mrs. Halpert, I too have read that 80% of fenugreek nutrients are lost when it is processed by the liver. Is this true, in all of your opinions? I think the person saying that advised using a liquid extract instead and applying it directly to the breast during massage.
Since there are no health food shops here with exotic items like liquid fenugreek extract, wild yam cream, borage or evening primrose oils, or even Vitamin E oil, would the following approach work?
Make a tea with the fenugreek seeds and mix the tea with some regular cheap body lotion, and massage into breasts immediately after shower?
My girlfriend doesn't have a coffee grinder, though I would buy her one if it were necessary. Do you think grinding the Fenugreek and soaking the powder in olive oil for massage is more effective than making a tea and mixing it with cheap body lotion? Or how about making a tea and mixing it with olive oil? But water and oil don't mix.
Suppose, for a starter program, she took 1500 mg Fenugreek per day by mouth, and also massaged the Fenugreek tea mixed with body lotion into her breast this way? Does this sound like it might work?
Or...what if she ate the 1500 mg of Fenugreek each day, and made a Fennel tea, and used the Fennel tea, mixed with body lotion, for massage? And then eat the softened fennel seeds left from the tea?
Or, alternatively, should I have her eat the Fennel, and use the Fenugreek for a massage tea? If she ate the Fennel instead of the Fenugreek, how much would she eat per day? Would the fennel seeds also be soaked before eating, like the Fenugreek?
I've already bought a bunch of Fenugreek and Fennel seeds for her, and now am just not sure about how to start her using the stuff.
Any precise suggestions for her beginner's regimen would be great. I realize nobody is really sure, as scientific research hasn't been done on this procedure, but you all know more than I do. Sorry to ask so many questions!
Suki
(Login sukidoll)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 16 2009, 4:04 PM
Hi Gumbyy,
I think it would be better for her to divide her dose. Would she be able to take it 3 times a day - morning, afternoon and evening? As long as she has the herbs in her system every 8 hours.
Take the herbs on an empty stomach - half an hour before eating or 2 hours after eating.
Try to avoid caffeine, but if its a must then take it a couple of hours before or after taking herbs.
Since you don't have a coffee grinder, maybe try the following:
Chew on the seeds, I think it tastes bitter though. Or she can swallow them whole and drink something citric like orange juice.
I think the idea you had about soaking them in water to soften them is fine too.
Fennel - I am not sure about the dosage, but looking at the seed it looks like it would be difficult to swallow so making fennel tea may be a better option.
For the massage, here is what someone had in their routine:
"For massage part one: The gel that fenugreek and fennel produces when left to cool in a cup of boiling water 24 hours. Sif off the water and massage with the jellied seeds. Wipe off and "seal" with part two.
Massage part two: Fennel and fenugreek left to soak in olive oil for at least 3 days. Sif off oil to use for finishing part of massage to seal the contents of the gel massage in and stop it from evaporating."
Heres a link to a thread you may be interested in reading
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...+same+time---
I hope this is enough information to get you started. Best of luck.
gumbyy
(Login gumbyy) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 19 2009, 8:55 AM
Thanks Suki and others. We are experimenting now with the Fenugreek, along the lines of your suggestions. It occurs to me that Aloe Vera stems are available here fresh, and very cheap, and I know that when you cut them open they exude a slippery gel. Would this gel be a nice carrier to mix with the Fenugreek tea and use to massage the breasts? It would be so much more natural than using some chemical-laden cream.
Also, I'm still a bit confused about Massage technique, and haven't yet found the answer on the forum or elsewhere. But I've seen suggestions that you should only massage from the outside of the breast near the arm toward the center of the chest, and from the underside of the breast upward, but never from the center of the chest, where the breasts meet, outward toward the arms, or from the top of the breast downward. Is that correct? That would mean you are only massaging 180 degrees of the circumference of the breast, and not massaging the other 180 degrees. Does that make sense?
July 15 2009 at 7:55 AM Gumbyy (Login gumbyy)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi. I'm new to the forum. I'm a man, and I want to devise a NBE program for my girlfriend, who is Asian and doesn't understand English.
She's 34 years old, has had one child 12 years ago, is about 163 cm (5 feet 4 inches) tall and weighs about 50 kg (110 pounds). I'm not sure what her cup size is, probably AA.
She recently started massaging her breasts and they seem to be getting bigger. I've been doing NBE research on the internet and now want to add some herbs to her program.
The problem is, where we live most of the herbs for NBE are not available. Stuff like saw palmetto, borage and evening primrose oil are very difficult or impossible to find here, and if you can find them, they are many times more expensive than they are in, say, the US. There are no health food shops here. I suppose I could have these herbs sent from the US, but it gets pretty expensive with shipping and import taxes.
I DID manage to find fenugreek seeds here at a Chinese medicine shop. I think I can probably also find fennel, which is also used in Chinese medicine.
Using only these two herbs, can I devise a good program for her? What dosages would you recommend? I have searched the forum a bit and see that a lot of people recommend only 1500 mg per day of fenugreek, and to go up in dosage as needed. But it can be difficult to know if an increase is needed when you don't know if the breast growth is attributable to the massage alone or the herbs, or a combination of both.
I've read that other therapeutic uses of Fenugreek recommend much higher doses, like 6 grams a day or more. And I've also read opinions that 1500 mg is too low to have much, if any, BE effect.
Should she start out with only fenugreek, or a combination of fenugreek and fennel? And what would good dosages be in each case?
Since I can only find hard fenugreek seeds here, and not capsules, I was thinking that the best way for her to eat them would be to soak them in water overnight to soften them, then eat them and drink the water, like they do in India. Is that a good idea? I am concerned that if she just swallows whole hard seeds, they will pass through her system undigested, like many seeds do. Crushing the seeds is possible but adds more labor and requires appropriate tools.
I've also shown her info about Noogleberry and similar devices, and she is very interested in that. But I wonder, can Noogleberry do better than massage and herbs? Or can massage and herbs alone be just as effective?
Thanks very much for any help!
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 1:29 PM
Hi Gumbyy,
I am sure your girlfriend appreciates all the research you are doing for her. It is nice that she has such support from you in her quest.
It is possible to grow from just massage. Fenugreek and Fennel have a track record of good results as well.
In the case of all herbs it is a matter of finding the lowest dosage that works. All herbs should be 'ramped up' - in other words, start with a small dosage and increase slowly. When either size increase occurs or there are signs of growth starting such as tingles or pains in the breast then the dosage should be held at that level. Too much of any herb can swamp receptors. Many women have had good results only to have the increases stop because they took too much of something. There results resume after they cut down on the herb and the receptors are able to reset.
As far as Fenugreek - watch out for blood sugar issues at levels above 1500mg. I personally had blood sugar issues at that level (fatigue, dizziness, etc).
Your idea of soaking the seeds sounds fine. The seed needs to be broken down either by chewing or crushing the seed before eating.
I have used the Noogleberry and it is a great device. At first its gains are temporary, but they appear very quickly for many women. This is a device that must be used consistently for a very long time to produce permanent results. (years of daily use) It is easy to use and when done properly, very gentle to the breasts. It would not interfere with the use of herbs and could be used exclusively to create breast growth. It is my primary form of NBE now since herbs negatively effected my health. To find out more about this device check out the Noogleberry forum and definitely research there before you buy it.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Sukidoll
(Login sukidoll)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 7:33 PM
Hey Gumby,
a NBE-er by the name of Fennel Fairy used a combination fenugreek and fennel.
Heres her program page: http://www.network54.com/Forum/482052/th...BE+program
She also posted this:
"I use the actual seeds. I add boiling water to the seeds and let it brew until it has cooled down, then drink the liquid. I use the same lot of herbs twice. I reckon they let out more active ingredients once their shells have been softened up by hot water already once. I put about half a cup of fennel seeds and some fenugreek and cover it in boiling water, then sif it off and use again. I do this twice in the morning and twice in the evening. Then I take a tablespoons worth of fenugreek seeds a day, swallow it down with water."
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...h+on+herbs-
I am sure there were some posts with regards to herb amounts and ramping, but I'm a little tired to try find it now. Best of luck
MrsJimHalpert
(Login MrsJimHalpert) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 7:43 PM
hey there,
how awesome of you to help your girlfriend out and be so supportive. <3
i'm not sure about answering your other questions, but i am now a huge believer in massage.
i was doing this for over 2 years simply taking herbs [fenugreek, saw palmetto, etc] with absolutely no results. the last few weeks, i have switched from internally swallowing the herbs to using liquid extracts and massaging 2x a day [dilligently, i have not missed a massage yet]. i also use vitamin e oil to massage. my boyfriend and i have both noticed results already. the other day he said they looked quite bigger. i am not measuring though, so i dont know for sure.
MrsJimHalpert
(Login MrsJimHalpert) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 15 2009, 7:48 PM
also, i dont think the noogleberry is necessary.
i wonder if there would be a way you could use the fenugreek seeds for massage, like as a breast mask. ive read that putting the herbs directly on the breasts is more effective bc it is absorbed by the skin and goes directly into the bloodstream whereas swallowing the herbs, about 80% gets filtered out by the liver.
to make a breast mask using capsules or powder, you soak the powder in olive oil for a week. maybe grinding the seeds in a coffee grinder can have the same effect? if you have a coffee grinder, that is.
gumbyy
(Login gumbyy) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 16 2009, 7:25 AM
I'm so gratified by all your responses. Thanks so much. Okay, I can start her on 1500 mg of soaked fenugreek seeds a day. That's a really small amount, since 1 teaspoon = 4.5 grams. Would she take this once a day, or divide the dose and take several times a day? And with food, or without?
Mrs. Halpert, I too have read that 80% of fenugreek nutrients are lost when it is processed by the liver. Is this true, in all of your opinions? I think the person saying that advised using a liquid extract instead and applying it directly to the breast during massage.
Since there are no health food shops here with exotic items like liquid fenugreek extract, wild yam cream, borage or evening primrose oils, or even Vitamin E oil, would the following approach work?
Make a tea with the fenugreek seeds and mix the tea with some regular cheap body lotion, and massage into breasts immediately after shower?
My girlfriend doesn't have a coffee grinder, though I would buy her one if it were necessary. Do you think grinding the Fenugreek and soaking the powder in olive oil for massage is more effective than making a tea and mixing it with cheap body lotion? Or how about making a tea and mixing it with olive oil? But water and oil don't mix.
Suppose, for a starter program, she took 1500 mg Fenugreek per day by mouth, and also massaged the Fenugreek tea mixed with body lotion into her breast this way? Does this sound like it might work?
Or...what if she ate the 1500 mg of Fenugreek each day, and made a Fennel tea, and used the Fennel tea, mixed with body lotion, for massage? And then eat the softened fennel seeds left from the tea?
Or, alternatively, should I have her eat the Fennel, and use the Fenugreek for a massage tea? If she ate the Fennel instead of the Fenugreek, how much would she eat per day? Would the fennel seeds also be soaked before eating, like the Fenugreek?
I've already bought a bunch of Fenugreek and Fennel seeds for her, and now am just not sure about how to start her using the stuff.
Any precise suggestions for her beginner's regimen would be great. I realize nobody is really sure, as scientific research hasn't been done on this procedure, but you all know more than I do. Sorry to ask so many questions!
Suki
(Login sukidoll)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 16 2009, 4:04 PM
Hi Gumbyy,
I think it would be better for her to divide her dose. Would she be able to take it 3 times a day - morning, afternoon and evening? As long as she has the herbs in her system every 8 hours.
Take the herbs on an empty stomach - half an hour before eating or 2 hours after eating.
Try to avoid caffeine, but if its a must then take it a couple of hours before or after taking herbs.
Since you don't have a coffee grinder, maybe try the following:
Chew on the seeds, I think it tastes bitter though. Or she can swallow them whole and drink something citric like orange juice.
I think the idea you had about soaking them in water to soften them is fine too.
Fennel - I am not sure about the dosage, but looking at the seed it looks like it would be difficult to swallow so making fennel tea may be a better option.
For the massage, here is what someone had in their routine:
"For massage part one: The gel that fenugreek and fennel produces when left to cool in a cup of boiling water 24 hours. Sif off the water and massage with the jellied seeds. Wipe off and "seal" with part two.
Massage part two: Fennel and fenugreek left to soak in olive oil for at least 3 days. Sif off oil to use for finishing part of massage to seal the contents of the gel massage in and stop it from evaporating."
Heres a link to a thread you may be interested in reading
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...+same+time---
I hope this is enough information to get you started. Best of luck.
gumbyy
(Login gumbyy) Re: Fenugreek and Fennel plus massage only -- can this work? July 19 2009, 8:55 AM
Thanks Suki and others. We are experimenting now with the Fenugreek, along the lines of your suggestions. It occurs to me that Aloe Vera stems are available here fresh, and very cheap, and I know that when you cut them open they exude a slippery gel. Would this gel be a nice carrier to mix with the Fenugreek tea and use to massage the breasts? It would be so much more natural than using some chemical-laden cream.
Also, I'm still a bit confused about Massage technique, and haven't yet found the answer on the forum or elsewhere. But I've seen suggestions that you should only massage from the outside of the breast near the arm toward the center of the chest, and from the underside of the breast upward, but never from the center of the chest, where the breasts meet, outward toward the arms, or from the top of the breast downward. Is that correct? That would mean you are only massaging 180 degrees of the circumference of the breast, and not massaging the other 180 degrees. Does that make sense?