[shortcake]

These are the herbs I'm considering:

Fenugreek
Fennel
Hops
Barley
Goat's Rue (?)

Along with these supplements:

Borage Oil
Flaxseed Oil
NeoCell Super Collagen Plus C - Type I and III

What I'm wondering is this: would it be possible (or effective) to replace fenugreek with goat's rue? I'm wary of taking fenugreek because it has messed with my blood sugar levels in the past and caused some yucky side effects. I saw on the old forum that there were people who were switching FG for GR due to FG's syrupy smell and because of the blood sugar problem. Unfortunately I couldn't really find any posts stating whether or not the switch was successful. If I could get around taking it, I would really like to try. Would goat's rue be a good substitute? If not, should I maybe replace something else in my program with goat's rue? Barley, for example? I'm not sure which is the "better" out of the two. I suppose I could just add GR to all of it but I'm trying to take as little as possible.

Also, I'd like to take something for circulation. I tend to have cold hands and feet and generally get cold very easily so I thought a circulation booster might be a good idea. I've tried gingko biloba in the past but it caused headaches. I've seen that some people use cayenne, but after researching it I have to admit I'm a little scared to try it! My system is fairly sensitive to pretty much anything.

One last question - since it's easy for me to become estrogen dominant and I want to take as small of dosages as possible, what would be good amounts for me to start out taking during the ramping up process? And what are the "minimum" amounts of these herbs that can stimulate growth? (I know that varies, but I'm just talking guidelines here.) Basically I don't want to waste time or product by taking way too little of these herbs, yet I want to be careful and not take too much. I'm also not sure how much collagen to take. I will look back on my previous programs and take that amount of borage oil and flaxseed oil, because I knew it worked for me back then.

Thanks!

[Isabelle]

Hi shortcake,

FG and GR both stimulate prolactin, and both lower blood sugar. Only, FG increases insulin, and GR increases insulin sensitivity. GR may be the better waist slimmer.

I follow Eve M's program for dosages. It's important not to take more than 400 mg FN with 1800 mg hops and FG or GR. FN is a phyto-progestin and increases prolactin, but is not really estrogenic.

[shortcake]

Thanks again, Isabelle! You've been a huge help. I've decided I might as well start with Fenugreek, considering they both lower insulin levels. The "waist slimming" properties of GR are definitely very appealing as I'm really wanting to keep my waist narrow during my journey, but I guess since FG is so much easier to find (and quite a bit cheaper!) I will begin with that. If I'm having significant problems with it I will for sure give GR a shot. Also, thank you for giving me the guidelines on amounts to take. After reviewing that, I think that even though I was taking small amounts of FG last time, I was taking way too much of the other herbs which I'm sure didn't help my ED at all.

I went to the health food store again now that I have a more defined shopping list and was surprised to find that they don't have fennel in any of the brands they carry! Even Nature's Way. It kind of seems like I remember having to order fennel the first time around too so they must not have had it back then either. I looked on the GNC website and they have it listed there, so I'm going to go in and see if they've got it in-store as well. The only problem I see with it is that the Nature's Way fennel contains 480mg and you said I should keep my fennel at 400mg. Should I not buy that brand and find something lower instead?

I was surprised to find that they now carry barley grass tablets this time around! They're a little more expensive than the Nature's Way ones on vitacost.com but I'm pretty sure it comes with more tablets. I also double checked the NeoCell collagen and they had the right kind! So I went ahead and bought that. I plan on starting the borage oil, flaxseed oil, and collagen before I start the herbs so they can get a headstart. If GNC has fennel, I won't have to order anything for my NBE program! That would be great!

[Isabelle]

Hi shortcake,

If you have grown enough already, and want a rounder shape, you can take more fennel. You can also take more than 1800 mg hops and fenugreek with it. But Wahaika sets the limit at 3000 mg for everybody. You can also cycle it: don't use it from day 1 to 11.

[Isabelle]

Good choice to start with fenugreek. It also increases insulin sensitivity, just like goat's rue (p. 414):
http://books.google.nl/books?hl=nl&lr=&id=hV2_TdmoDo8C&oi=fnd&pg=PR19&dq=maca+fenugreek&ots=U-O9I18Qg0&sig=2e1XLukI_ubJ3cXmZzLbJQdhG1E#v=onepage&q=maca%20fenugreek&f=false

[gogirlanime]

So I looked into goats rue some more and it sounds like something I really want to try, would goats rue be a replacement for fenugreek? Please and thank you, Isabelle I think you will know, I love you girl and all your help with me

[Isabelle]

Thank you, Go,

and yes: goat's rue is a good alternative for fenugreek. Nigella sativa too.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=32542&highlight=goat%27s+rue#pid32542

[gogirlanime]

Thank you, Go,

and yes: goat's rue is a good alternative for fenugreek. Nigella sativa too.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=32542&highlight=goat%27s+rue#pid32542

One more question, so what would you suggest for a dosage? I am planning on taking goats rue in place of Fenugreek when I am done with my Fenugreek bottle (I just bought it and can't return it now so I might as well use it up) I take Fenugreek on my cycle days 21-28 would that work for goats rue too? I couldn't find anything on that, thank you Isabelle

[Isabelle]

Yes, Go,

Take it just as you would take FG on days 21-28. GorgeousBlonde has posted her program: she takes 3000 mg GR a day.

You can start before day 21 if you ovulate earlier, and if you start your phyto-estrogen during your period.

[gogirlanime]

Yes, Go,

Take it just as you would take FG on days 21-28. GorgeousBlonde has posted her program: she takes 3000 mg GR a day.

You can start before day 21 if you ovulate earlier, and if you start your phyto-estrogen during your period.

Thank you so much for your help, I hope someday I can give you some advice, but from the looks of it so far, whatever I figure out or learn you seem to know already haha