[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

How are you today.. Yesterday I was on the skin site most of the day reading.. I also havent been up to posting on either one just reading.. anyway.. How is that new dose going for you.. So far I feel tired and my sleep is sucko.. I upped my maca yesterday to 2 and I felt more tired so today I think I am going to drop maca. I have been shedding more hair dont like this.. I think I may as I have been thinking from the begining of NBE my testoserone is high so my point is I think I want to try a new approch to my other problems instead of focousing on NBE and see what happens.. I my need more progesterone so I think today I will take just PM, small amount of spearmint, FG, GR tea and add another anti-androgen. I feel taking these now will not interfer with ovulation.. I am also going to eat flaxseed meal been forgetting to eat this lately which I believe will help the adrogens get eaten up as for soy think it isnt a good choice.. not sure about taking SP..stuck on this one still...k talk later going to do more reading on SP..

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

I'm fine, thank you. I know the lower flax and oats doses slowed my growth, because I measured that on the latest tape day. The lower GR and FG give me less swelling now. But I feel I need to do this if I want to continue doing useful experiments. If I'm on high doses and add another herb, I may stall, and conclude the herb is useless, while in fact it may be great

Maca is a stimulant, so it's bad for sleep. I always take it in the morning.

Sorry to read you're sheddng more hair. Do you have any borage oil capsules left? Secoisolariciresinol diglycoside (SDG), the main lignan in flax, is an anti-androgen too.

I think it's a very good idea to focus on the other problems first. When they're gone, it means you have all the hormones trimmed. Good growth should be resulting, then.

Good luck, and best wishes for 2012

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Isabelle,

Yes I agree you should lower your dose as well.. I was taking maca first thing in the morning.. my sleep problem is weird.. I feel tired but feel I dont get a restful sleep and feel more tired in the morning..my dam dreams are so active I wonder if they make you more tired Well no maca and took my PM about a half hour ago and for some reason my titas are getting alot of action I am also drinking my protein shake with flaxseed meal and wheat germ not oil the stuff from the jar.. I started back on my multi vit. and omegas I took a combo flax, borage, and fish.. oh been reading the hairloss site for women and finding that alot has to do with vitamins and androgens and reading some either lossing more from too much of A or not enough of D too..balance is so important...Happy New Year if I dont hear from you later...ah I will wish it again tomorrow

[Isabelle]

Boobie wishes, Susan, and everyone,

Do you have a hair skin nails multi? Or horse tail? I have noticed on the label of my new multi that the balance has improved a lot since the new regulations in Europe, and megadose vitamin supplements are forbidden now. Check the percentage of Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) on the label, and if it's 200 % for most B vitamins, take one every two days.

[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

Tita wishes to you too

I was thinking about the hair thing.. not sure if it was hairloss or just normal shedding..I usually dont shed alot.. It might have been extra do to change in herbs hence change in hormone balance so on.. anyway if it was because of vitamins it was from not taking them..just started back taking..and yes I only take less cause it is too high in some stuff.. also I have read that too much vit A isnt good either and can cause hairloss...like I said balance...well unless you are very very low in somethings then take more till your balanced

[Isabelle]

Thank you, Susan,

I'm shedding hair too, and I just checked my old multivitamins: they have no vitamin D and one of them has 200 % of the RDA of vitamin A

Fortunately, they're almost empty: one pill left in the hair-skin-nails and 17 in the "super hair formula". My new one is a 50+, with 100 % of A and 200 % of D. Can't wait to start it

[ssag124]

Hello isabelle, beachbumbythesea, and everyone...

Greetings! I am a new member of the forum but i've been an avid reader of this forum on and off for the past year (although I've been consistent within the past three weeks..yay me!! ) I've read countless threads on the forum (im on page 36 in this thread and Im determined to read the rest!) First off, i would just like to tell you guys how inspired and grateful I am for your determination and willingness to share knowledge on your NBE journey...especially isabelle and beachbumbythesea. You guys have inspired me to get back in NBE!

A little bit about myself, I am a 21 year old female who loves learning and studying herbs..especially for my own quest in NBE.Ive been never been pregnant, and when I was young (and naive) I began researching NBE which led me to take FG, WY, SP. Currently, I am a 32C/D (im not sure if I grew a decent size because of puberty or the herbs...I was around 13 at the time smh). I am content with the size I have now but i definitely wouldn't mind reaching 32DD wink wink. More important, one of my main goals is to gain weight.. and this time around for my NBE journey while I would like bigger boobies and i am concerned with taking NBE herbs to
encourage fat distribution in my lower body (butt and hips) while I am gaining weight.Even though I have learning a lot through personal research, I am NO WHERE near as smart as you guys so if you would mind assisting me..it would be such a blessing.

For my program, I wanted to add a few herbs to my program and I wanted to get you guys advice. I wanted to take PM or hops(since its a phytoestrogen) SP (anti-androgen), FG or GR (insulin sensitivity and prolactin...which one do you guys think is better?) maca ( increased DHEA and booty of course) borage oil (aromatase) ginko bibola (circulation). Besides the herbs themselves im still confused about cycling, ramping up, and the best way and time to get some of the herbs. Besides herbs i plan on getting the NB and doing externals with massage for the boobs AND butt (i ask wahaika about this on another forum and we thought it may work. I also intend on working out to build muscle for a bigger bum and legs (hopefully my intake of herbs doesn't prevent muscle growth..will it??)

BTW Isabelle..i apologize in advance for posting here and I hope I am not being rude as this as your program thread. Ive been reading this thread for the past 2 weeks everyday and ive learn so much knowledge from it that I wrote this message here. But if you feel I am being intrusive, PLEASE let me know and I will definitely move this message somewhere else.

If you guys wouldn't mind assisting me with this journey, i would be extremely grateful. But i would also like to be an asset to you all as much as you guys have been as asset to me..so if I can contribute in any way I can id be happy to! : )
Thanks in advanced and Happy New Year!!

[Isabelle]

Happy New Year too, ssag124,

I don't mind your introducing yourself here, but I really need to think about what you wrote. Susan and I believe in simple programs. Your plans are full of enthousiasm, but there is a lot of duplication too. That doesn't mean it won't work, but in a minimal program, it's much easier to pinpoint the cause if something goes wrong.

You write you want to add herbs. Does that mean you want to continue FG, WY, and SP? SP is an herb for the emergency kit. Are you sure you break out, lose hair, or grow facial or body hair if you stop it? I would try that out before starting maca. Then you can add SP back in if maca does cause break outs. At your age, it shouldn't. Ginkgo biloba is a mild anti-androgen:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=30411#pid30411
and borage oil is an anti-androgen too, so I doubt you need the SP.

If WY works, why add hops or PM? The risks - depression from hops or messed up cycles from PM - outweigh the benefits, in my opinion.

I use both FG and GR. I take just enough FG to stay away from estrogen dominance, and then add GR for the amount of swelling I want. Your program will be more complicated, because WY contains diosgenin too, like fenugreek, so it will add to progesterone and prolactin.

Read up on cycling before you consider PM. The women who are happy with it, are on bc. Some keep a natural cycle running for two months on Bella's schedule (starting after the period for two weeks), but then the periods get heavier and the cycles irregular, just like in Susan's schedule.

Ramping up is a question of collecting lists of symptoms of hormone dominances, excesses, and deficiencies, and then keeping a journal of your symptoms. Most herbs start working at 1,500 mg, and cause stalling or other problems above 3,000 mg.

Make sure you drink a gallon of water a day if you plan on pumping both your breasts and your behind. You may need it. Don't work out. Just walk, swim, cycle, do house and yard work, but avoid strength training on your arms and shoulders. Muscle growth reacts to testosterone directly, not to DHT. Two or three years on maca and you'll have all the muscle you ever wanted.

Thank you for wanting to contribute. What worked for me is a minimal, simple program for three months until growth starts, and then do one experiment and measure every two weeks. Susan moves much faster to balance all the symptoms immediately.

[ssag124]

thanks soo much Isabelle for responding ,

i apologize for the confusion and complexity..sometimes I get really excited and do too much and I definately need to work on my knowledge about cycling!
The thing is, when i used the fg, wy, and sp combo in the past I didn't know much about NBE at the time, so i was pretty inconsistent with it...nor did i remember much about the ways in which i took them. This time around...i was interested in making PM my main herb since its a phytoestrogen and to supplement it with an anti-androgen, maca for dhea, the ginko for circulation and fg or gr for prolactin. So would wy be nessacery at all? ( i was thinking of using pm for the first part of my cycle then use hops for the second part, along with wy for the days that progestorone is high) or should i ditch pm and hops altogether? the only reason why i've considered/used SP is because i do have an issue with body hair and breakouts..this is a legitimate reason to continue with it or should I not bother?

should I avoid working out the arms and shoulders for fear of building TOO much muscle in those areas?

also, how soon do the herbs affect fat distribution? I wanted to focus on finding the proper balance of my hormones for growth in those areas first..then i was going to up my caloric intake to gain weight (with healthy NBE foods of course )

Thank you again for your help, you are so gracious!

[Isabelle]

Hi ssag124,

If you use PM/maca/ginkgo/fg/GR/hops, neither WY nor SP will add much. You can keep SP in the emergency kit in case the hops, PM, and ginkgo are not enough to stop break outs.

Yes, if you exercise your arms and shoulders on a working NBE program, certainly with maca, you will put on too much muscle, too fast.

How fast your program redistributes fat depends on how closely and where you look, and on what you start first. I started hops first, then FG, then maca, then GR, flax, and oats, each with at least two weeks in between. My waist slimmed quite a bit in the first month, but I only measured the first breast growth at the end of month three. If you start with something that swells, like FG or certainly GR, you will notice the swelling within hours, but that's mostly water, not fat.