[Sophia2012]

I am already shy about asking you

Since the liver is the most important
organ for estrogen removal and hormone regulation, liver health is
important for fertility and nbe.

Is this why nbers take Milk Thistle?

I am planning to add Gingko
I have seen and read from other nbe forums that we should also take an element that helps the herbs circulate properly on the blood

For Blood Circulation (choose only one):

1: Gingko Biloba 2: Cayenne Fruit 3: L-Arginine

I am overwhelmed by the number of herbs taken....

[Isabelle]

Hi ssag124,

You sure are motivated

I mix most of my herbs together too, with four exceptions:
1) hops at night because it makes me sleepy. This is not really an exception, because I take the whole mix at night.
2) fenugreek 20 minutes before a meal with carbs, because it's hypoglycemic.
3) maca in the morning because I hope it will help me wake up.
4) goat's rue throughout the day, because the swelling is gone after two hours.

Hops becomes a phyto-estrogen when it's digested, yes, if you have Eubacterium Limosum in your intestine. I just mix it into my evening porridge, and Eve took it in yogurt or with a mashed potato, so I think you can mix it into whatever you are eating, yes. Be nice to the Eubacterium Limosum, though, so nothing really spicy or lots of alcohol.

A couple of women with PCOS have reported success with red clover lately. PCOS shows as estrogen dominance and androgen excess, so I think your idea to use it to prevent estrogen dominance will work. There is a disadvantage, though: the deal in a female cycle is maximum estrogens for two weeks, and then maximum progesterone for two weeks. If you use a 50/50 mix, you will stall on a lower level of estrogens. So on days 9-11, use the minimum level of red clover that stops the estrogen dominance symptoms, and top up estrogens as high as possible with the hops and the dandelion.

[Isabelle]

Hi Sophia

Liver health is why forum members use milk thistle on a break, yes. It's also a waist slimmer (improves insulin sensitivity) and a phyto-estrogen. Liver health is fine if you use fenugreek.

At the moment, give me L-arginine any time. I have no experience with cayenne except for cooking. I stopped ginkgo biloba not too long after I joined this forum, because it's also an anti-androgen and a memory booster, which implies it does something to the hippocampus and maybe even to the hypothalamus. Since the hypothalamus steers the anterior pituitary gland to control the levels of sex hormones, I had a feeling ginkgo complicates things. If you're not after understanding how it all works, I guess it's OK to take it.

I stopped L-arginine because it costs four times what the rest of my program costs, and I don't really understand what it does. I really hope Anastasia comes up with an NBE veteran's opinion. I grew really well during the two weeks ramp up. I kept it at a constant level for two months and nothing happened. After stopping cold turkey, I lost the growth. You tell me

[Isabelle]

Today is tape day. Weight is up to 84.5 kg, from 83.0 kg two weeks ago. Body Mass Index (BMI) has increased to 26.5, which is more overweight than ever (25<BMI<30).

I finally broke the 116 cm barrier! That's 46 ". Band size is the same, at 90 cm, or 35 ". I'm a US 40 E (or F) now, or in EU sizes, 90 G/H, just on the edge.

Waist to Hip Ratio (WHR) is down from 0.83 to 0.82, because I finally managed to direct the weight gain to my butt.

So I picked up the trend again. No changes to the program for now. I'm actually very pleased with how this is going

Height: 178.5 cm = 5 * 30.48 + 10 * 2.54 = 5' 10"
Weight: 84.5 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 186 lbs
Body Mass Index (BMI): 84.5/1.785/1.785 = 26.5
Breast: 116 cm = 46"
Under: 90 cm = 35" Difference Breast - Under = 116 - 90 = 26 cm = 10 ", US bra size 40 E (or F), EU 90 G/H
Waist: 84 cm = 33"
Butt: 102 cm = 40"
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 84/102 = 0.82

Progress in 2011:
Day 11/7 26/7 08/8 22/8 05/9 19/9 3/10 17/10 31/10 14/11 28/11 12/12 27/12
BMI: 26.5 26.4 26.2 25.7 25.3 26.0 25.70 25.70 25.70 25.60 26.00 25.90 25.90
B-U: 8.00 5.00 8.00 8.00 8.00 10.0 10.00 13.00 11.00 14.00 15.00 16.00 16.00
Size 42AAA AAAA AAA AAA AAA AA 42AAA 42. A 42. A 42. A 42. B 42. B 42. B
WHR 0.95 .945 0.94 0.92 0.92 0.96 0.930 0.940 0.910 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.870

Progress in 2012:
Day 09/1 23/1 06/2 20/2 05/3 19/3 02/4 16/4 30/4 14/5 28/5 11/6 25/6 09/7
BMI: 25.7 26.7 26.4 25.9 25.7 25.3 25.7 25.0 25.1 25.6 25.9 25.4 26.0 26.5
B-U: 17.0 18.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 18.0 18.0 25.0 26.0 26.0 27.0 25.0 25.0 26.0
Size 42 B 42 C 42 C 42 C 42 D 40 C 40D 38F 38F 40DD 40DD 40DD 40DD 40 F
WHR 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.84 0.83 0.81 0.80 0.79 0.82 0.81 0.83 0.82
B-U = Breast - Under in cm

[JustintoMe]

Congrats on your continued growth Isabelle!!

After reading what you think about ginkgo biloba, I have a question about, I recently increased my dosage to 240mg (just yesterday), but I am now having second thoughts about using it. Do you know of any herbs/supplements that promote blood circulation?

Also, I'm interested in knowing what you think about my program and if you have any suggestions.
I am currently taking the following:
Wild Yam - 1000 mg
Saw Palmetto - 1.2 g
Flaxseed oil - 2000 mg
Fenugreek extract - 1000 mg
Ginkgo biloba - 120 − 240mg

I have experienced some growing signs (i.e. dull pain, shoots, swelling) and massage w/ either fenugreek/borage oil/safflower oil or red clover/ginkgo biloba/safflower oil.

I plan to ramp up to 1500 − 2000mg per herb, but I am not sure if my program has everything it needs to be successful. I am particularly worried about not having enough phytoestrogen for some reason..

[Isabelle]

Thank you Brilaw,

For blood circulation, why not try cinnamon?

Wild Yam - 1000 mg: ramp up to 2,000 mg.
Saw Palmetto - 1.2 g: 640 mg of extract, or 3,000 mg of dried berry capsules.
Flaxseed oil - 2000 mg: OK if it's without lignans
Fenugreek extract - 1000 mg: ramp up to 2,000 mg
Ginkgo biloba - 120 − 240mg: those are the doses for memory. I'm not sure about what these doses will do in NBE.

Your phyto-estrogens intake depends on the kind of flax seed oil you use. Some flax seed oils contain lignans, others don't. The main lignan in flax seed is secoisolariciresinol diglycoside (SDG). If you've got the right intestinal bacteria, SDG digests to two other lignans, enterolactone and enterodiol, that are estrogenic. The shoots tell me that you've got the right bacteria and that your dose is somehow right.

My current dose is 3,600 mg broken flax seed. The seeds are 20 % oil, so I get 720 mg oil, with lignans. I'm not stalled, so 720 mg is not too much. Of course I take hops and soy too, so I can't really say 720 mg is enough. If your 2,000 mg is with lignans, it's on the high side, probably close to a stalling dose.

As a total intake of ω−3 fatty acids, my 720 mg is too little, and your 2,000 mg is about right. I have cans of pink salmon for my afternoon snack, to get enough ω−3 fatty acids, even though I know fish oil has a bad track record in NBE. Maybe I should try chia seeds.

Both Ginie and I have experienced growth on flax alone, so as long as you have sensations, why not keep it up for three or four months to see if it becomes growth?

For women who breast fed, wild yam programs work without addition of a phyto-estrogen. OK, you didn't, but since flax also has a reputation of working well on it's own, I think it's worth a try. If you do want to try other phyto-estrogens, it's good to know that getting shoots from flax increases the chance that soy and hops work for you too. Again, take a close look at the doses. 2,000 of each is enough.

[karen]

I'm actually very pleased with how this is going

Now don't be like someone that saves and saves and FINALLY gets that convertible sports car THEN keeps it parked in the garage and looks at it everyday ..... put the damn top down, get it out of the garage onto the highway and lets see you slam through them 6 gears ....

YA GET THE MESSAGE????

Karen

[JustintoMe]

Thank you for your response Isabelle.
I bought my flaxseed oil from Trader Joe's and it doesn't say whether it has lignans. I got the shoots more frequently when I first started, but ever since I ramped the herbs (i.e. WY, SP, FG) up I've feel mostly a dull throbbing pain in my breasts (Never at the same time though).. I think I'll skip a day on everything tomorrow and decrease my flaxseed to only 1000mg. Thanks for the info on flaxseed oil lignans, I had read it was less than ideal for NBE when taken in large amounts but never knew what was too much. Oh, in response to your question, I just weight out 1.2 grams of saw palmetto berry powder from mountain rose herbs..

So guess I'll be picking up Flaxseed oil w/o lignans and cinnamon soon, thanks.. O BTW what would be a good # of mgs to use of cinnamon to increase circulation for NBE? One more thing, I was thinking of adding aguaje to my program, any thoughts?

[ssag124]

...Waist to Hip Ratio (WHR) is down from 0.83 to 0.82, because I finally managed to direct the weight gain to my butt.

You know I had to ask Isabelle , what have you been doing specifically (feel free to share all the details you wish lol) to direct the weight gain to your butt? Was it intentional, or just a change you noticed over time? Based on my current program, would it assist in directing the weight gain to my butt?

Also, in terms of the hops - any kind of porridge is okay right? I usually make corn meal porridge, so I wasn't sure if it had to be a specific kind of porridge that had the bacterium in it or if there was a commonality between all grains and/or starch that consist of the bacterium. Side note - would taking acidophilus with bifidum be of any help with regards this issue of hops? (already have acidophilus at home, not trying to buy anymore products if I don't have to lol)

[karen]

Hi Isabelle,

I finally broke down and ordered Whole Hops Strobiles from the Oregon organic farmer. I "HAVE" to compare potency/effect to my Liquid Extract Hops.

https://www.oregonswildharvest.com/owh/b...iles_whole

So when it comes in what do I do to prepare it? It's gonna be whole strobiles ... do I powder them and then add the powder to something like oatmeal? (I'm kinda liking the fact that oatmeal will lower SHBG freeing up more T to convert to Estradiol) What's the easiest way to powder them? I'm guessing it makes sense to leave them whole until I am ready to use them (or maybe make a weeks worth or so at a time)

Also ... on another note ... do you have any idea which has a higher binding affinity? Naturally converted Estradiol OR 8-pn from hops?

GET THAT SPORTS CAR OUT THERE

Karen