[Isabelle]

Thank you Karen,

I looked into the probiotics that Metagenics are selling separately, and they are for other bacteria. For me, hops just works, but I still wonder how many of those who don't grow on it would be helped by an Eubacterium Limosum probiotic.

[karen]

Found this article this morning about Eubacterium limosum and Hops

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/7/1310.full

All you need is brain heart infusion broth (Oxoid) at 37 degrees C with 0.5 g/L l-cysteine HCl, 5 g/L yeast extract, and 5 mg/L haemin and you can grow your own .... sounds like a good weekend project

Karen

[Isabelle]

Well Karen,

It looks like I may have to borrow my auntie's 15,000 g centrifuge though

Classes stopped at the end of last week, but there's still a lot to be done about grades and books this week and next week. The beauties have a lot of spare time, but can't go on holiday just yet. And it's summer sales season: they're all over Amsterdam in their fresh haircuts, new shorts and perfect waxes.

So yes, I've had a hard time trying to stay away from cross dressing. Yesterday, I increased hops from six tablespoons (3,000 mg) to seven (3,500 mg). It helps. I'll try eight or even nine tomorrow and over the weekend.

[mochaccino]

Im still interested in menohop because it's standardized for 8-pn. I haven't been able to find any other extracts that are standardized for 8-pn. Theyre usually standardized for their sedative chemicals instead. Do regular hops extracts even contain 8-pn while they are still in the bottle, or is 8-pn purely a product of digestion?

What I really want to know is if menohop is still worth taking if it contains soy isoflavones. Without the probiotic, there's no guarantee that the daidzein in the soy will become equol. What do you think? Should I bother taking menohop or not?

[Isabelle]

Well mochaccino,

The 8-prenylnaringenin content in hops is 10-20 times lower than the xanthohumol content. I suppose that will be the ratio in hops extracts too.

If you do have Eubacterium Limosum in the intestine, you don't care: just any hops extract that has xantohumol or isoxanthohumol in it will do. The bacteria will make 8-PN out of them.

There is a study by the same research group about cosupplementation of hops, soy, and flax. One of the conclusions was that at least part of the intestinal bacteria that are needed to digest the phyto-estrogens are common between hops, soy, and flax. So if you respond to one of them, the chance increases that you respond to the others too.

This is the reason why I decided to cosupplement hops, soy, and flax too, like Eve M. The decision to put both hops and soy in Menohop may have a similar background, but I would have to read the patents in detail to find out. I'll post it here if I find something.

[lostacres6]

Isabelle,
So cosupplementing as Eve did is necessary as you mentioned . What were the necessary supplements? Barley grass?, Alfalfa?, Oat seed? Do these 3 provide the bacteria? With all the talk about the necessary intestinal bacteria in order to digest the hops, I worry that I may be wasting my time taking hops if I don't have it (bacteria).
Thanks & thanks again.

[Isabelle]

Hi lostacres6,

Cosupplementation of hops, soy, and flax only improves the odds that you already have the bacteria for at least one of them. Barley grass, alfalfa, and oat tops are in Eve's program for other reasons.

I looked further into mochaccino's question:

The use of a probiotic to make equol from daidzein was demonstrated by the group who developed Menohop:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/4/946.short

In this patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1869200.html
there is a reference to an older journal publication:
"Decroos et al. (2005) Arch. Microbiol. 183, 45-55, recently isolated a microbial consortium capable of transforming the soy phytoestrogen daidzein into equol"

In that journal publication:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/14arrw81w6ukub7k/
the strain that makes equol from daidzein "was tentatively identified as Veillonella sp strain EP".

Later, other strains were found:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb...9/_article
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb...8/_article
http://www.springerlink.com/content/8181383q7t752515/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...6410000284
but Eubacterium Limosum is not one of them.

Since 2009, there has been a lot of patenting activity in bacteria that produce equol from daidzein. I'm sure a probiotic will be for sale soon.

[Isabelle]

This is the cosupplementation study:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/12/2293.full

Out of 100 participants, 40 responded to at least two of the three supplements: hops, flax, and soy. Unfortunately, there is no information in the text about how many responded to none of the three. So I can't give a number for the chance that someone following Eve M's program would not respond.

[Sophia2012]

Hi Isabelle, I have started a new regimen using your expert opinion...one thing I lack on my program is oil...

quick question....Evening Primrose Oil or Flaxseed oil for NBE?
Im considering EPO because its good for pcos….but can I also take Flaxseed at the same time?

Thanks

[Isabelle]

Yes, Sophia,

You can take both. They are really different.

Evening primrose oil contains γ-linolenic acid (GLA), an ω−6 fatty acid that is also an anti-androgen. About 70 % of the oil is linoleic acid, another ω−6 fatty acid. Borage seed oil contains twice as much GLA as evening primrose oil. A third source of GLA is blackcurrant seed oil.

Flax seed oil is over 50 % α-linolenic acid, which is an ω−3 fatty acid. I use only flax seed in my program, because there are a lot of ω−6 fatty acids in the oils I have in the kitchen. A diet that is consistently high in ω−3 fatty acids keeps the waist slim. Other oils that contain ω−3 fatty acids are fish oil, cod liver oil, and chia seeds. Fish oil has a bad track record in NBE.

An advantage and a disadvantage of flax seed oil is the lignans that are in it. Lignans are phyto-estrogens. So they add to an NBE program, but you can also stall on them. I keep my flax seed dose below 3,000 mg. Since flax seed contain 20 % oil, that's only 600 mg oil. If you want to add more oil to your program, you can buy flax seed oil without lignans, or use evening primrose oil or borage oil.