[karen]

Hi ...

Found this this morning about maca root ... sounded "reasonable" and "seems credible"

http://www.highonhealth.org/what-nobody-...e-effects/

Don't get concerned about the "title" ... it's just mostly about ramping up

Karen

[Isabelle]

Thank you karen,

I had the insomnia too at 6,000 mg with too little fenugreek. Apparently, she's not aware that there is an antidepressant in maca too.

[karen]

The wheels are spinning again ....

Not planning anything soon ... just letting my mind run free ...

I've read many places on how much more potent estradiol is than phyto-estrogens ... and that phyto-estrogens are not converted to estradiol but have a similar effect on the body ... true so-far?

As I've stated many times before I use "prescribed testoterone gel" as part of Testosterone Replacement Therapy. I also am not looking for permanent breasts but I do like to "experiment" to learn what effect different things have.

My prescription is for 2 tubes of Gel per day .... I usually take 1 or less.

Here's my thought .... since I can control the amount of "REAL T/Free T" in my body (I have enough blood test results to know accurately that as I increase the Gel my amount of Total T and Free-T increase proportionately) ... as does the amount of DHT and Estradiol.

So what if I surpress "5 alpha reductase" and enhance "aromatase"? I don't worry about phyto-estrogens .... but I reduce the creation of DHT ... leaving more Free-T to be converted into Estradiol PLUS the enhanced aromatase helps to create more estradiol.

I'm not planning on going nuts ... nor over my prescribed amount of Gel. But I'm wondering, since Estradiol is stronger, would that be enough to "tip" the scales to a point where NBE would occur?

Karen

I'm surfing around a liitle here ... made me think of also lowering SHBG ... which results in more Free T .... and also the question ... IS THERE an herb or product that directly increases aromatase?

I found this along the way

http://fanaticcook.blogspot.com/2007/09/...r-man.html

Interesting section about lower insulin levels appear to reduce production of Estrogens.

[Isabelle]

Hi karen,

More aromatase will only make estradiol faster, not more. Inhibiting 5α-reductase is enough, really. All testosterone will end up as estradiol eventually, since it has nowhere else to go. If you want them, xxd has posted a lot on aromatase boosters.

High estradiol will cause estrogen dominance. So you will need to increase progesterone or add a phyto-estrogen to restore the balance between estradiol and progesterone or progestins.

So enhancing aromatase is not necessary, since the testosterone has nowhere else to go. You will become estrogen dominant, so use a progestogen. Even then, you may develop estrogen excess. Group 1 in dr. Lee's test lists estrogen excess symptoms:
http://www.johnleemd.com/store/resource_...etest.html
A more complete list is here:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5135
You don't want to go there.

The one thing you could win is time. Cell growth and division cycles are a matter of hours in skin cells. An NBE program below the stalling limit takes four months. If your nutrition has been really good, and you have only one or a few days before the party, high estradiol can do a lot. Most of the excess symptoms will only kick in after the party. But even in this situation, I would use a swelling herb too, and collagen, essential fatty acids, and an anti-androgen just in case. And if you have an additional three hours for digestion, hops, flax, or soy will work as well.

Bad choices are hops, vitamin B6, and fenugreek, because you may have low energy. Or fenugreek and fish oil because of the smell. But I'm sure you can put together a ritual, including the right timing.

[Isabelle]

I prefer low insulin. I can always take more phyto-estrogens. But insulin resistance deposits fat inside the abdomen (visceral fat). That is a risk factor for several life-threatening diseases. And it takes ages to remove it. I think my current struggle to lower WHR is still a consequence of supplementing glucosamide for three years. Glucosamide increases insulin resistance.

[karen]

I need to read the links and digest your replies BUT THANKS as always for your help.

My brain keeps spinning .... exploring ideas ... it's great to have someone that has years of experience and has already gone down many of the "rabbit holes".

Karen

[karen]

I prefer low insulin. I can always take more phyto-estrogens. But insulin resistance deposits fat inside the abdomen (visceral fat). That is a risk factor for several life-threatening diseases. And it takes ages to remove it. I think my current struggle to lower WHR is still a consequence of supplementing glucosamide for three years. Glucosamide increases insulin resistance.

I understand ... there are more plus'es to having insulin low as well as reduced insulin sensitivity. I just found it interesting that lower insulin level appears to cause the creation of less estrogens ... another place for a fine line of balance most likley.

This endocrine system is a very Intricate one.

Karen

[Isabelle]

Ha! Tell me about it

I started a new bag of hops today. They are whole strobiles this time, not rubbed into separate leaflets. I like that: the orange lupulin grains are still in the strobiles, instead of at the bottom of the bag.

I used 200 g in 15+31+30+31+2=109 days. That's 1,800 mg a day. Since I decreased the dose from two large tablespoons to two small ones after a month, this dose is on target. The fenugreek dose is smaller now too, to keep it slightly below the hops dose.

[Isabelle]

Woww, did those new hops strobiles give me dreams last night. I woke up three times in three totally weird movies. Any time something changes in one of the herbs, I like to have some confirmation that it works. Dreams are good enough, at least they tell me the hops is not five years old or something.

Tape day is a week from now. I am slowly shedding the pounds from the L-arginine carbs cravings, but I'm losing size too. I'm still not sure that the gains on L-arginine are anything more than the effect of the weight gain.

I did rule out that the fast growth in the first two weeks of April were from black seed. I found an intermediate tape day in my paper journal, March 27, after almost two weeks on black seed. In those two weeks, I had lost five pounds and 6 cm. Two months later, the pounds and the centimeters were back, only one cm more. I hope that's real growth.

[Isabelle]

I want to experiment with a program that costs under € 2 a month. It would be based on foods, rather than herbs or supplements. I have already proven that fenugreek swells as well as goat's rue, and I want to check swelling from black seed too, so I have two ways to increase prolactin. Both fenugreek and black seed are also waist slimmers. Fenugreek would still be the only herb that increases progesterone. If I ditch the hops, I don't need the maca to improve my mood either. OK, I'll miss the butt herb, but I still have soy and flax left as phyto-estrogens.

There is also an anti-androgen in flax, secoisolariciresinol diglycoside (SDG). If that's not enough, I can add azelaic acid from rye bread or other whole grain cereals. Or spearmint tea. My current teas are teabags, but I'm sure I can get a bag of dried spearmint leaves for less at www.amazingoriental.com

Flax increases Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG). Age too. The trick is to use more oats than flax. Oats decreases SHBG. Oats is also a source of zinc and vitamin B6, so I can stop the multivitamin as long as I eat meat for vitamin B12, or drink fortified soy milk, and veggies for folic acid: spinach, broccoli, lettuce, garden beans, rucola. Postmenopausal women wo are educated in health foods eat all of this. There's probably a lot to learn from their web sites and magazines.

Another advantage of a foods based program is that I wouldn't have any suspicious looking herbs in the kitchen. Only the jars for fenugreek and black seed would be a bit big.

Doses: price: g: cost per month in €
07400 09.75 300 07.32 Goat's rue
03400 15.25 300 05.26 Maca
01800 07.40 200 02.03 Hops
01500 01.29 030 01.96 Licorice mint tea bags
02000 01.29 040 01.96 Licorice tea bags
03600 01.98 400 00.54 Flax
02400 01.75 250 00.51 Black seed www.amazingoriental.com
02500 00.95 250 00.29 Fenugreek
08400 00.38 500 00.19 Oats
01000 01.50 500 00.09 Soy

Dose: price: caps cost per month in €
00001 09.49 120 02.41 Multivitamin