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Long time hops & FG user

Hey Isa,

Soy and DHEA.

This link is What foods have DHEA:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/212988...have-dhea/


The one below is another link about soy and DHEA:

Soy Products, Breast Cancer, and Other Diseases
The NBC show, "Dateline" of June 9, reported the overall benefits of consumption of soy products. One of the highlights of the article was the connection of increased soy consumption and protective effects against breast cancer. My work explains these beneficial effects of soy consumption. Soy increases production of the hormone, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA).
I suggest DHEA is necessary for growth and development of all tissues and adult tissues require DHEA for proper maintenance. A subordinate hypothesis of this is that the stability of cells depend upon DHEA. This eventually resulted in my explanation of cancer as a result of reduced DHEA. That is, reduced DHEA may trigger oncogene (genes of cancer) activation. DHEA begins to decline after age 20-25, reaching very low levels in old age. I suggest this is why cancer incidence increases with age. Measurable levels of DHEA are reduced in women with breast cancer, and this reduction occurs as early as nine years prior to diagnosis (Geriatrics 1982; 37: 157). A number of studies demonstrate that treatment with DHEA provides a protective effect against breast cancer. That is, raising DHEA reduces the incidence of breast cancer. One citation that reports this also found beneficial effects of DHEA in other areas important to aging women. "These data show that DHEA exerts a stimulatory effect on bone mass and an inhibitory effect on serum triglycerides, as well as a protective effect on the development of mammary carcinoma induced by DMBA in he rat. Such data suggest that while decreasing the risk of breast cancer, DHEA replacement therapy could also exert beneficial effects on the bond and lipid metabolism in women receiving DHEA replacement therapy." (Endocrinol. 1997; 138: 3387). Therefore, increasing DHEA reduces breast cancer incidence. A connection of soy consumption, reduced breast cancer, and increased levels of DHEA sulfate (the serum precursor of DHEA) was reported in 1995. "There is also evidence that soy products may affect risk factors for cancer, such as endogenous hormone levels. Preliminary data from our group indicate that young Adventist women who are vegetarians with high soy intake and a lower risk of breast cancer may have higher levels of an adrenal androgen, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate." (J. Nutr. 1995; 125(3 Suppl): 709S-712S). It was suggested on "Dateline" that the increase in breast cancer in Japanese women, who move to the U.S., may be a result of reduced soy consumption in this country.
A number of studies have reported general benefits of DHEA treatment in aging men and women. "DHEA in appropriate replacement doses appears to have remedial effects with respect to its ability to induce an anabolic growth factor, increase muscle strength and lean body mass, activate immune function, and enhance quality of life in aging men and women, with no significant adverse effects." (Ann. N. Y. Acad. Sci. 1995; 774: 128) The "Dateline" article included a discussion with an investigator who suggested many beneficial effects of soy consumption in many diseases. I suggest these, and the protective effect of soy on breast cancer, are the results of increases in DHEA. It is the increase in DHEA that may produce the real beneficial effects.


http://www.anagen.net/soy.htm



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(23-09-2011, 19:07)Isabelle Wrote:  Chrissie uses PM without SP, and increases doses if she doesn't feel anything. At high PM doses, I believe SP increases the stalling limit. The brain measures total sex hormones, and signals to stop making them with LH. On SP, you have no DHT, so your estrogens can be higher without stalling.

Thanks Isabelle,
Sorry, I forgot to come back and check for your reply until just nowBlush
Yes, I know that Chrissie doesn't take SP and I believe that sfem didn't take it all the time, that's why I decided to drop it myself, because I had a feeling that it was creating some unwanted side effects.
Well I've been back on SP at 2x610mg twice a day for a few days now and there may be some increase in the growing pains. I've had a few spontaneous stabs, although they didn't last very long each time, but that is certainly a good sign. OTOH, have also seen a return of the suspected side effects which include heartburn in the night and waking up very early ( between 12-30 and 1-30 am) and not being able to drop off again for several hours.
I guess the trick is to try to find the SP level that just gets rid of DHT and hopefully reduces the side effects to an acceptable level, but I need to wait until I'm sure the growth is going again properly before I can drop the SP level.
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On the subject of DHEA, following up what you and Susan were talking about, I came across this:


Side Effects
The side effects of DHEA supplementation appear as an excess of androgens and estrogens, the male and female sex hormones. Men and women may experience acne, hair loss, liver damage and high blood pressure. Women may develop a deeper voice and produce facial hair, while men may have swollen breasts, shrinkage of the genitals and an aggressive temperament. Call your doctor immediately if any of these symptoms occur. Ask your doctor before discontinuing DHEA use as you may develop withdrawal symptoms.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/487817...z1YyfGXz6r


So, just be careful !! I know we would all die for the 'swollen breasts' but I doubt any of us want the other symptoms mentioned!
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Hi Pansy-Mae,

Is that taking the direct supplement of DHEA.. I am using maca to balance my hormones which maca is suppose to help adrenals which I believe in turn adrenals effect DHEA production.. something like that ...I just know maca is suppose to help keep everything in check.. I just started taking 500mg ..I actually took half a cap first.. cause last time I took maca I took it too fast (too much at once) and had not good effects..
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I'm not 100% sure. It appears to be talking about DHEA supplemenst as such, but overall the article is talking about herbals that include or ar alleged to include DHEA.
I guess it doesnt matter where it comes from if there is too much of it. Anyway, I'd suggest clicking that link and making your own mind up
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OK..makes sense thank youBig Grin
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Thank you Susan and Pansy Mae,

The DHEA side effects are effects of too much estrogen or too much DHT. I believe we should tune the balance between estrogens and DHT before starting maca, or anything that ups DHEA.

About SP, I always try to take just enough anti-androgen. Never too much, because it ruins a lot of good things: libido, ability to cope with stress, and mood. I even read somewhere too much anti-androgens can increase the risk of osteoporosis. If true, that is a nasty side effect, because you only know 30 years later if you took too much risk Dodgy
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(25-09-2011, 20:32)Isabelle Wrote:  Thank you Susan and Pansy Mae,

The DHEA side effects are effects of too much estrogen or too much DHT. I believe we should tune the balance between estrogens and DHT before starting maca, or anything that ups DHEA.

About SP, I always try to take just enough anti-androgen. Never too much, because it ruins a lot of good things: libido, ability to cope with stress, and mood. I even read somewhere too much anti-androgens can increase the risk of osteoporosis. If true, that is a nasty side effect, because you only know 30 years later if you took too much risk Dodgy

Hey Isa..

Yes you are right...I just started maca again but it is good and bad.. my energy is better but chin hairs..well not sure if better or worse I did take a borage oil last night.. but I didnt realize too much DHEA can up androgens... I was thinking just take maca every other day 1 500mg and take 1 SP (I think it is 410mg) every other day too on dif days or same.. as of today I am taking 3 PM a day, 3 more days on that dose I did add 1 day to that, yesterday I was suppose to take 2 but took 3.. oh also I think I may need to add progesterone, that could be why my chin hairs are there, my acne is doing ok.. so any input would be great..Thanks
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Hi Susan,

It looks good. Just take the SP on the same day as the maca. That will do more about the chin hair than progesterone.

Good luck!
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Hey Isa..

Ok thank you.. now I am going let this go with this regimen and see how it works.. I am changing to many things to know what is working.. Oh one more question..I forgot does exercise up estrogen or testeserone, or does it raise all hormones.. I thought it was estrogen.Blush Oh rule of thumb or you can say keep a note well for me not to take maca at 8pmDodgy too funny I put it in my mouth looked at the clock and said dam, debated to take it out but didnt want to waste...next I will waste it..didnt get to bed til around 2:30/3:00am work up at 9:30 but wasnt really wipe out feeling actually felt not to bad go figure..Big Grin
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