[Isabelle]

Hi Chiquitabella,

With goat's rue, you are lucky: it causes swelling, so you should know in 3 or 4 hours if it works. But check the strength of the extract: you really need a lot. I use 4,000 mg dried herb as tea. With only 1,000 mg, I see very little swelling.

I was at http://www.jacob-hooy.nl/
just this afternoon to buy more. I bought
200 g goat's rue for € 6.50
200 g hops for € 7.40

At 4,000 mg daily, 200 g is enough for just 50 days. At those prices, it's affordable to use 4 herbs every day. They are good herbs too: Jacob Hooy has been in business at the Nieuwmarkt ("New Market") in Amsterdam since 1743. They know what they're selling.

In those days, people didn't have family names, only first names and nicknames. His nickname became the family name after 1795: Hooy means hay, which is what he was selling, in the eyes of his fellow market traders.

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

Things that affect progesterone are:
Vitamin E
Diosgenin (in fenugreek and wild yam)
Phyto-progestins: fennel, turmeric, yucca, thyme, oregano (pizza), red clover, licorice root, and more: I use Table 3 in this publication:
http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...tml#table3

[beachbumbythesea]

Thank you Isabelle,

It is very interesting in the chart..table 3 PR that wild yam isnt considered high on the list..so bloodroot..hmmm..well I may try again FG and FN in very small amounts in my 2nd cycle and see what happens..I think I may do teas ..are teas better then taking a pill or eating with food..ok oops I am already in my 2nd cycle..dam that went fast..

[Isabelle]

Well, Susan,

Fenugreek is not high in Table 3 either. Diosgenin is not a phyto-progestin, so the way they measured the bioactivity in that publication doesn't see it. But in research where people's hormones were measured after using fenugreek of wild yam, progesterone was up. Not sure how that works.

I can't really say why, but I use fenugreek in half a glass of cold water, and fennel seed as tea. I used to take fenugreek in food (great in white béchamel sauce over broccoli, cauli flower or any kind of cabbage), and later in half a glass of milk. I didn't really check what works best.

[beachbumbythesea]

Ok good..I just made a cup of fennel tea (seeds) and I just took a FG cap, I do have loose FG but it is powdered so I will use that like you mentioned..Thank you for the tips.. maybe using food too will not make me so tired or insulin sensitive.. as for PM I may alternate that and FG through this cycle..experimenting once again...Thank you again

[chiquitabella]

That's a good question Isabelle, I don't even know how much I am taking now that I look at the bottle. I've been taking 1ml, but no where on the bottle does it say what strength it is, and it says to take 1ml four times a day. I am using Motherlove goat's rue extract (I like extracts the best). I can't find it online either, but I will keep looking, and up my dose in the meantime. Thanks!

[Isabelle]

Aha Chiquitabella,

That gives a clue already. If it doesn't say "standardized extract", they just filled up a drum of fresh, crushed herb with wodka until the herb was completely under the liquid level. My 200 g is 1300 ml. So 4 g, my daily dose, is 26 ml!

If it smells like 35 vol% liquor, you can increase your dose 6 times. If it's more water and less alcohol, they evaporated the alcohol and some of the water, and the dose of 4 ml could be right. If it doesn't smell like alcohol at all, it's some sort of tea, and who knows how strong that is

[Isabelle]

OK, since both chiquitabella and idreamofD use Motherlove goat's rue, the advised dose for which seems much lower than mine, I started an easy experiment. I just finished a mug of tea from 7,500 mg of goat's rue. That brings my total to 10,000 mg. Yesterday, I had none.

The size across my nipples is the usual 109 cm. I'll measure again tomorrow, and see if anything spectacular happened. I just hope the swelling isn't gone by then.

Hyperprolactinemia in men usually goes unnoticed. They walk around for years with impotence and bad sperm count and motility, without knowing. Maybe if someone would ask their wives
http://www.endotext.org/neuroendo/neuroe...endo6.html
The article also mentions that both dopamine and GABA inhibit the secretion of prolactin. PM increases dopamine, and I already wrote that PM suppresses prolactin. But GABA? That's one less on my list to try this winter

[chiquitabella]

Here is what the ingredients say-
(goat’s rue herb, grain alcohol, deionized water)
Now I'm kind of annoyed, it would be nice to have the mg listed, and I can't find it anywhere!
Maybe I should find a different source so I can know how much I am taking. On the other hand, this brand was highly recommended

[Isabelle]

Well, chiquitabella, I'd stick with this, but take more. Because it has grain alcohol (wodka, whisky, gin) in it, it must be a tincture, made as I described above. So it's 200 / 1300 = 150 mg dried herb per ml.

I also finished yesterday's experiment. Well I'd say, give me some more of this!

Woke up before 5 from the pain in my left breast, between the nipple and the armpit. After massaging - it didn't really go away - I measured:

Heiht: 178.5 cm = 5 * 30.48 + 10 * 2.54 = 5' 10"
Weight: 82.0 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 181 lbs
Body Mass Index (BMI): 82.0/1.785/1.785 = 25.7
Breast: 110 cm = 43"
Under: 97 cm = 38"
Waist: 90 cm = 35"
Hip: 99 cm = 39" (actually the widest part around my butt)
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 90/99 = 0.91

Progress:
Day 11/7 26/7 08/8 22/8 05/9 19/9 3/10 7/10 17/10 31/10 3/11 2014 2016
BMI: 26.5 26.4 26.2 25.7 25.3 26.0 25.7 25.3 25.70 25.70 25.7 23.0 23.0
B-U: 8.00 5.00 8.00 8.00 8.00 10.0 10.0 10.0 13.00 11.00 13.00 15.0 20.0
WHR 0.95 .945 0.94 0.92 0.92 0.96 0.93 0.92 0.940 0.910 0.91 0.80 0.70
B-U = Breast - Under in cm

So I gained 1 cm overnight, and the difference between bust and underbust has increased by 2 cm, or 3/4". That's swelling from 10 mg of goat's rue yesterday. Of course, I had 30 g flax seed yesterday and the day before too, but yesterday after the flax and before the goat's rue, my bust measurement was still 109 cm.