[lora]

ok, girls i came back with a lot of problems .

first i'm missing my cycle again , it Was supposed to be yesterday and i feel i still in luteal phase as i still feel fullness on my breast due to p may be in this phase, so i stopped vitex today after using it for 14 days in my luteal phase to make the drop important in progesterone to get my period, hopping this help .
i hadn't this problem of missing cycles ever through out my whole life till i used the pm atomizer at the last month during my luteal phase while i didn't know that i'm E dominant . my cycle was very regular before that .
my conclusion now is that i was E dominant with normal estrogen , low progesterone and when i used pm atomizer i became E dominant with higher estrogen , lower progesterone and with this ratio it's very normal and Expected to get this irregularity in my cycle for the second time again .
anyone has another explanation for that ?
btw do you imagine that i used throughout my life to eat broad bean floating in flaxseed oil and Tahini (something made of sesame ) , it's a popular food here in Egypt , it tastes terrific and very high in calories and makes the digestion excellent especially if you eat it floating in falxseed oil like me .
imagine with this food all my life and my cycle was very normal and regular .


second my bad acne came back again after i stopped sp , it was improved pretty well when i used it , but now it return back again .
so i wanna think a little a gain about sp,
well it decreases T which if present it may convert into E and thus increases the E level .
considering prolactin i forget if sp decreases or increases the prolactin ?
and vitex decreases or increase prolactin ?
i got confused when timarie said vitex increases prolactin and this imp. thread mentiond that vitex decrease prolactin
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5135

may be i gonna search the wikipedia for the most right information and i hope i found something about that,
as if sp increases prolactin and vitex decreases it , also sp decreases T which may be its availability in my body isn't good for the production of E .
so if it like this, so sp and vitexs diminishes the effect of each other on prolactin beside sp decreasing effect on T . SO i maybe take them just together in my luteal phase only with lowering the dose of SP as much as possible.


third thing,
i 've a problem in sleep-wake up cycle, i've very bad insomnia and when i fall in sleep i can't wake up easily .
when i was searching E dominance i read something about the hormone responsible for the regulation of this sleep-wake up cycle but unfortunately i don't remember what was this hormone now, as i was concentrating at E and P when searching ,
anyone knows what is that hormone ? it was one rather than E and P , any one have an idea about that hormone ?

[lora]

isopure protein shake .... what about it ? it's 100% isolate i think
http://www.gnc.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2108294&cp=3593187&f=PAD%2FBrands%2FISOPURE&fbc=1&lmdn=Brand&fbn=Brands%7CISOPURE

[lora]

very important information about vitex from wikipedia, it explains why someone thinks it increases prolactin and other think it decreases it .



Mechanism of action[edit]

The mechanism of action is not fully understood[19] but it is assumed that it has dopaminergic effects resulting in changes of prolactin secretion. At low doses, such as might have been used in previous centuries for suppression of sexual desire, it inhibits activation of dopamine 2 receptor by competitive binding, causing a slight increase in release of prolactin. In higher concentrations, as in modern extracts, the binding activity is sufficient to reduce the release of prolactin. A study has found that treatment of 20 healthy men with higher doses of Vitex agnus-castus was associated with a slight reduction of prolactin levels, whereas lower doses caused a slight increase as compared to doses of placebo.[20] A decrease of prolactin will influence levels of Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and estrogen in women; and testosterone in men. Dopaminergic compounds (diterpenes with prolactin-suppressive effects that were almost identical in their prolactin-suppressive properties than dopamine itself) present in Vitex agnus castus seem likely to be the clinically important compounds which improve premenstrual mastodynia and possibly also psycho-somatic symptoms of PMS.[21]

[lora]

Current uses of vitex [edit]

Vitex agnus-castus is used to alleviate symptoms of various gynecological problems. All evidence is limited to standardised controlled extracts such as used in Germany, different extracts or herbal mixes may have significantly different properties and safety issues. Some of the modern uses include premenstrual syndrome, abnormal uterine bleeding disorders and mastodynia.

Good evidence and safety exists for these uses:[17]
PMS[23][13][14][15]
Cyclical mastalgia[23][16]
Mild hyperprolactinemia[24] did you notice that tim @timarie
Luteal phase defect

No specific clinical studies but use partially supported by clinical evidence on symptoms and mechanism of action:
Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS), improvement of symptoms
Uterine fibroids, control of bleeding symptoms

Emerging uses:
Menopause, mechanism of action completely unclear.[citation needed]
Prostate disorders, Rarely used,[25][26] but given its mode of action theoretically interesting,[27][28]

[timarie]

Hey Lora!

Looks like I have some catching-up to do on this thread. Bear with me!

my bad acne came back again when i stoped sp, what to do now ?
it was too much improved when i used sp .

Testosterone then is likely the cause of your acne, and any antiandrogen would do the job to help clear your skin again. Now of course for your specific case, you will not want SP, which is why the Chinese Skullcap and the Spearmint would be a great thing for you. Have you ordered them yet? Mine came in yesterday and I just started taking them today!

ok first of all girls i don't consider my p level is extremely low, it just below than range by .04 and this is not too bad, second there is noway timarie to increase my p while my E that high, as from articles i read, too much E in the body inhibit the secretion of p and may be other hormones too, this because the body feels that it has a lot of hormones and doesn't think which hormone it has a lot of but simply the body thinks that this level of hormones is enough and it doesn't need anymore so, it shuts the secretion of hormones especially p the most similar in action to E .
this high level of estradiol not only inhibit the secretion of p but also stops the body responding to all estrogen .
so, my high E level is a very important consideration and the detoxification process is highly recommended as tibetan said too .

I want to clarify something. I am no expert on endocrinology or NBE. I never was, and never claimed to be. Hopefully I will be one day, but for now I do research and, for the things that are complicated and are possibly contrasting with a more knowledgeable member's information, I will be skeptical of the sources. In my relatively short time being involved with NBE, I have discovered that many cites and many people on this forum will quote inaccurate information. This is why you need to trust a specific few. Abi and Tibetan are the two who I go to with all of my questions. They are both very experienced (been at this for years!) and they do their own research. I mean, real research. They didn't just get lucky after taking the right stuff at a whim. The only reasons I was here on your threads was because 1) I saw how upset you were and 2) I very much respect the things that Tibetan and Abi say, never tell them that they are wrong, but I will ask them how or why something is the way they say. I was just here to re-iterate what they told you because I knew it was good for you to know what they had to say! I knew what they were saying would help you, and I wanted you to see that. So, if you disagree with any of the things suggested to you in this thread or the other threads, I suggest that you ask them why or how, instead of just telling them that they are wrong. Or, maybe you can read a little more closely what they've already written. Maybe a better understanding can come out of it!

so, my conclusion is there is a difference between the bad type of estrogen (esradiol ) causing the E dominance case and the good type phyto-E, BUT , the phyto E may convert into the bad type in the body espcially a body like me, so i think if anyone gonna use this theory it must be with very high caution. may be using it in very low dose,very weak phytos and in organic form like crushed flax , tibtan and i believe i'm ok with crushed falx but not falx oil but, we don't actually know the difference.

Yeah, Abi and I are also in agreement on this one, just that Abi and I were addressing your original question about other low estrogen-producers and phtyoestrogens while Tibetan was addressing your statement about very weak phytos in food. We all agree on this, though. I hope you know this by now...?

and my cause to choose to switch to whey power plus is that ON company wasn't very honest actually, i researched a lot about all types of protein before buying and found that whey protein is the most suitable for my needs and the isolate is the top of whey, the best and the most expensive, which ON agree with too and mention that on its label, so i was searching for a whey protein isolate and found that ON is the less expensive one, i wondered why but i reviewed the product more than one time and found that they say 100% whey protin isolate , so i bought it .
but when i received it i found this on its back label and i got depressed
it says " whey protein isolates are the purest form of whey protein that currently exist. WPIs are costly to use, but rate among the best proteins that money can buy. that's why they're the first ingredient you read on the main label." but it's just the primary ingredient not the 100% as they said first and the other is whey protein concentrate . this explains why its coast is low.
so i'm on two choices now, whey power plus or GNC , and if you don't prefer whey power plus i'll choose GNC .

I'm glad that you are looking for an honest company. I will tell you now, though, that although I am no expert on the endocrine system, I do know my shizzle about diet, protein, and weight lifting! So I hope that you can trust me on this one.

Optimum Nutrition is an extremely reliable company (perhaps one of the most reliable), which is why most competitive body builders choose it. These people's diets consist of a lot of protein shakes and you will never meet a person with a more strict diet than a body builder, which means that they pay attention very closely to what they put into their bodies. Given that it is a popular brand to be used by body builders, clearly shows that they are a reliable company. ON was not dishonest in the description of their products. According to what you wrote above, it sounds as though when you were looking around for protein to buy, you read the description for ON's Performance Whey Isolate ( http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-285.html ). This is the one with 100% whey isolate, and the nutrition information DOES match the description. Based on what you read off the back of your protein container when it finally arrived, you purchased the 100% Whey Gold Standard ( http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-201.html ). This description matches the nutrition information on the back that you found to be so disappointing. It is a mixed protein blend, where whey isolate is the top ingredient-- not the ONLY ingredient. Why? Because it is a blend, and it claims to be so.

As for what is the purest protein, technically it is Hydrolyzed Whey. Why? Because it is whey isolate further broken down into even smaller proteins, making it even more bioavalable to the body. This is the hydrolyzed whey by Optimum Nutrition: http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-271.html . Hydrolyzed Whey IS Whey Isolate taken another notch up, basically, so it is a form of Whey Isolate, so technically Hydrolyzed Whey is a purer form of the purest form (between concentrate and isolate), making it a MORE PURE form of Whey Isolate. I know, it's really oddly complicated I use it since it makes digestion easier, which is extremely important for me as I lift weights, but I do not think it is all the important for you. I know you might not want to hear this but, you would probably be fine with a mixed protein blend or even a concentrate. Whey Power Plus, however, does not sell hydrolyzed form of isolate and is claiming to have the most pure form of it which is not true. This means they are either trying to exaggerate to their customers to draw them in for the sake of advertising (because, although isolate is more pure than concentrate, isolate can still be further broken down to be hydrolyzed), or they are so behind on the times that they do not realize that they need to update their information! I would be hesitant to call them trustworthy if either scenario was the case, and it has to be either one or the other, so it is safe to say that I do not trust them. This is NOT to say that they are not selling a good product (I said this twice in my earlier post). I just have been saying that since there are many excellent brands of whey powders in existence, many of which I trust, I will not be going with or advising anyone to go with ones that I do not trust. It is kind of like comparing buying a knock-off "Coach" bag from an illegal street vendor, to buying a real Coach bag. One is not reputable and the other is, but it does not mean that the bag made from the unreliable-maker will be bad. It could function just as well as the Coach bag! But, it is just a gamble, that is all. I hope this makes sense. This is why I was saying that I hoped you had other reasons (other than hearing of the company through Bountiful Breasts) for choosing the product. If you know what you are talking about and have good reasons and it matches what your wants and needs are and are willing to make the gamble, then by all means, give it a shot. All I am saying is that it is a gamble.

And as far as GNC is concerned: big name, a lot of bad rep. I am not sure all of what is involved with their bad reputation, but I do know that they got a lot of bad rep for selling a product that resulted in the deaths of a few people a few years ago. I'm pretty sure it was a pre-workout shake, but cannot say if they got in trouble for any of their other products. Also, my personal experience with them was the worst (although yours may be different). GNC was the first store I went to when I first started my high protein diet about 2 years ago, and they recommended me to take this one shake (I forget what it's called now, but I can find out for you if you want) that they swore was the best of the best of their products and was great for starting out because it does not bother with upsetting any stomachs or whatnot. Anyway, just after two shakes my stomach began to stick out quite dramatically as if I had kwashiorkor. I had severe bloating, more than I have ever had in my life. I gave it a good shot, thought maybe my body was just not accustomed to it and thought I would wait and see, but it never got better. So I returned it and my stomach went back to normal when I switched to another protein powder. So, that is it for my shared experience of GNC. Not a huge fan, here! Again, they may have good products, but it is gamble in my opinion.

by the way, whey power plus contains no sugar and very low non-considerable amount of fats and cholesterol compared with the very high amount of sugar , fats and cholesterol in ON

WHEY POWER PLUS :
no sugar at all ( safe for diabetic)
total fats 0.7g
cholesterol 8.5mg
no gluten
no MSG
no artificial sweeteners

ON :
sugar 2 g (very high actually )
fats 1.5 g (very high too )
cholesterol 40mg (very very high )

so, i'm looking for an honest company and very good quality product .

The only reason I brought up about Whey Power Plus's sugar, cholesterol, and fat was not because it is bad (it is actually about right and comparable to ON's Isolate Powder); rather, I brought it up because they advertise that it has no sugar, no fat, and no cholesterol when it in fact, does. They should not be advertizing false information about their nutrition information. And yes, as a matter of fact there is sugar in Whey Power Plus. There is 1.5 grams of sugar per serving. Low, and definitely good, but not "sugar free" as it boasts.

Also, that is hardly fair to break down the nutrition facts of ON's mixed protein powder (you listed the nutrition information to ON's 100% Whey Gold Standard) vs. Whey Power Plus's Isolate. What would be fair would be to compare the nutrition information of ON's Performance Isolate vs. Whey Power Plus's Isolate.

isopure protein shake .... what about it ? it's 100% isolate i think
http://www.gnc.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2108294&cp=3593187&f=PAD%2FBrands%2FISOPURE&fbc=1&lmdn=Brand&fbn=Brands%7CISOPURE

Actually, it is not just 100% Whey Isolate, but more specifically 100% Ion Exchange Whey Protein Isolate. This, like Hydrolyzed Whey, is a form of Isolate, but different in its processing and composition. To read more about the differences of the types of proteins, you can take a look at this article: http://sportsnutritioninsider.insidefitn...drolysates .

i hadn't this problem of missing cycles ever through out my whole life till i used the pm atomizer at the last month during my luteal phase while i didn't know that i'm E dominant . my cycle was very regular before that .
my conclusion now is that i was E dominant with normal estrogen , low progesterone and when i used pm atomizer i became E dominant with higher estrogen , lower progesterone and with this ratio it's very normal and Expected to get this irregularity in my cycle for the second time again.
anyone has another explanation for that ?

I think this sounds right. It will take some time to neutralize the hormones because they all effect each other. I think detoxifying would be great to help this, and once your hormones are back to the way they were before you started taking PM, start with increasing the Progesterone levels.

btw do you imagine that i used throughout my life to eat broad bean floating in flaxseed oil and Tahini (something made of sesame ) , it's a popular food here in Egypt , it tastes terrific and very high in calories and makes the digestion excellent especially if you eat it floating in falxseed oil like me .
imagine with this food all my life and my cycle was very normal and regular .

Interesting! This may have been very good for you...

i 've a problem in sleep-wake up cycle, i've very bad insomnia and when i fall in sleep i can't wake up easily .
when i was searching E dominance i read something about the hormone responsible for the regulation of this sleep-wake up cycle but unfortunately i don't remember what was this hormone now, as i was concentrating at E and P when searching ,
anyone knows what is that hormone ? it was one rather than E and P , any one have an idea about that hormone ?

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, it is L-5-hydroxytryptophan. I actually used to have the same sleep problem! But now I have a different sleep problem, where I fall asleep frequently, hard, and fast. Exercise is what made the change for me. I cannot stay up late even if I wanted to, because my body forces me to shut down so that it can repair my muscles. Yes, I will fall asleep in random places without warning because of this!

Mild hyperprolactinemia[24] did you notice that tim @timarie

That is interesting. Since I will admit that I do not know that much about it myself, I would advise you to ask Tibetan about this, since it was she who said:

Vitex is questionable since its effects are complexed. It may actually help you, but if its raising your prolactin levels, it may compete with progesterone, but that's the thing, we don't know what's causing your Low P levels.

If you notice, she did say it MAY help you, but since we don't know for sure what is lowering your Progesterone levels, it is best not to take the risk of increasing your prolactin as it may potentially make it worse. This is what I understood from what she wrote. It would be safer at this point to stay away from it, just until you can get your hormones a little more balanced again.

I hope that helps!

[lora]

Hey Lora!

Looks like I have some catching-up to do on this thread. Bear with me!

Testosterone then is likely the cause of your acne, and any antiandrogen would do the job to help clear your skin again. Now of course for your specific case, you will not want SP, which is why the Chinese Skullcap and the Spearmint would be a great thing for you. Have you ordered them yet? Mine came in yesterday and I just started taking them today!


I want to clarify something. I am no expert on endocrinology or NBE. I never was, and never claimed to be. Hopefully I will be one day, but for now I do research and, for the things that are complicated and are possibly contrasting with a more knowledgeable member's information, I will be skeptical of the sources. In my relatively short time being involved with NBE, I have discovered that many cites and many people on this forum will quote inaccurate information. This is why you need to trust a specific few. Abi and Tibetan are the two who I go to with all of my questions. They are both very experienced (been at this for years!) and they do their own research. I mean, real research. They didn't just get lucky after taking the right stuff at a whim. The only reasons I was here on your threads was because 1) I saw how upset you were and 2) I very much respect the things that Tibetan and Abi say, never tell them that they are wrong, but I will ask them how or why something is the way they say. I was just here to re-iterate what they told you because I knew it was good for you to know what they had to say! I knew what they were saying would help you, and I wanted you to see that. So, if you disagree with any of the things suggested to you in this thread or the other threads, I suggest that you ask them why or how, instead of just telling them that they are wrong. Or, maybe you can read a little more closely what they've already written. Maybe a better understanding can come out of it!


Yeah, Abi and I are also in agreement on this one, just that Abi and I were addressing your original question about other low estrogen-producers and phtyoestrogens while Tibetan was addressing your statement about very weak phytos in food. We all agree on this, though. I hope you know this by now...?


I'm glad that you are looking for an honest company. I will tell you now, though, that although I am no expert on the endocrine system, I do know my shizzle about diet, protein, and weight lifting! So I hope that you can trust me on this one.

Optimum Nutrition is an extremely reliable company (perhaps one of the most reliable), which is why most competitive body builders choose it. These people's diets consist of a lot of protein shakes and you will never meet a person with a more strict diet than a body builder, which means that they pay attention very closely to what they put into their bodies. Given that it is a popular brand to be used by body builders, clearly shows that they are a reliable company. ON was not dishonest in the description of their products. According to what you wrote above, it sounds as though when you were looking around for protein to buy, you read the description for ON's Performance Whey Isolate ( http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-285.html ). This is the one with 100% whey isolate, and the nutrition information DOES match the description. Based on what you read off the back of your protein container when it finally arrived, you purchased the 100% Whey Gold Standard ( http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-201.html ). This description matches the nutrition information on the back that you found to be so disappointing. It is a mixed protein blend, where whey isolate is the top ingredient-- not the ONLY ingredient. Why? Because it is a blend, and it claims to be so.

As for what is the purest protein, technically it is Hydrolyzed Whey. Why? Because it is whey isolate further broken down into even smaller proteins, making it even more bioavalable to the body. This is the hydrolyzed whey by Optimum Nutrition: http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-271.html . Hydrolyzed Whey IS Whey Isolate taken another notch up, basically, so it is a form of Whey Isolate, so technically Hydrolyzed Whey is a purer form of the purest form (between concentrate and isolate), making it a MORE PURE form of Whey Isolate. I know, it's really oddly complicated I use it since it makes digestion easier, which is extremely important for me as I lift weights, but I do not think it is all the important for you. I know you might not want to hear this but, you would probably be fine with a mixed protein blend or even a concentrate. Whey Power Plus, however, does not sell hydrolyzed form of isolate and is claiming to have the most pure form of it which is not true. This means they are either trying to exaggerate to their customers to draw them in for the sake of advertising (because, although isolate is more pure than concentrate, isolate can still be further broken down to be hydrolyzed), or they are so behind on the times that they do not realize that they need to update their information! I would be hesitant to call them trustworthy if either scenario was the case, and it has to be either one or the other, so it is safe to say that I do not trust them. This is NOT to say that they are not selling a good product (I said this twice in my earlier post). I just have been saying that since there are many excellent brands of whey powders in existence, many of which I trust, I will not be going with or advising anyone to go with ones that I do not trust. It is kind of like comparing buying a knock-off "Coach" bag from an illegal street vendor, to buying a real Coach bag. One is not reputable and the other is, but it does not mean that the bag made from the unreliable-maker will be bad. It could function just as well as the Coach bag! But, it is just a gamble, that is all. I hope this makes sense. This is why I was saying that I hoped you had other reasons (other than hearing of the company through Bountiful Breasts) for choosing the product. If you know what you are talking about and have good reasons and it matches what your wants and needs are and are willing to make the gamble, then by all means, give it a shot. All I am saying is that it is a gamble.

And as far as GNC is concerned: big name, a lot of bad rep. I am not sure all of what is involved with their bad reputation, but I do know that they got a lot of bad rep for selling a product that resulted in the deaths of a few people a few years ago. I'm pretty sure it was a pre-workout shake, but cannot say if they got in trouble for any of their other products. Also, my personal experience with them was the worst (although yours may be different). GNC was the first store I went to when I first started my high protein diet about 2 years ago, and they recommended me to take this one shake (I forget what it's called now, but I can find out for you if you want) that they swore was the best of the best of their products and was great for starting out because it does not bother with upsetting any stomachs or whatnot. Anyway, just after two shakes my stomach began to stick out quite dramatically as if I had kwashiorkor. I had severe bloating, more than I have ever had in my life. I gave it a good shot, thought maybe my body was just not accustomed to it and thought I would wait and see, but it never got better. So I returned it and my stomach went back to normal when I switched to another protein powder. So, that is it for my shared experience of GNC. Not a huge fan, here! Again, they may have good products, but it is gamble in my opinion.


The only reason I brought up about Whey Power Plus's sugar, cholesterol, and fat was not because it is bad (it is actually about right and comparable to ON's Isolate Powder); rather, I brought it up because they advertise that it has no sugar, no fat, and no cholesterol when it in fact, does. They should not be advertizing false information about their nutrition information. And yes, as a matter of fact there is sugar in Whey Power Plus. There is 1.5 grams of sugar per serving. Low, and definitely good, but not "sugar free" as it boasts.

Also, that is hardly fair to break down the nutrition facts of ON's mixed protein powder (you listed the nutrition information to ON's 100% Whey Gold Standard) vs. Whey Power Plus's Isolate. What would be fair would be to compare the nutrition information of ON's Performance Isolate vs. Whey Power Plus's Isolate.

isopure protein shake .... what about it ? it's 100% isolate i think
http://www.gnc.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2108294&cp=3593187&f=PAD%2FBrands%2FISOPURE&fbc=1&lmdn=Brand&fbn=Brands%7CISOPURE

Actually, it is not just 100% Whey Isolate, but more specifically 100% Ion Exchange Whey Protein Isolate. This, like Hydrolyzed Whey, is a form of Isolate, but different in its processing and composition. To read more about the differences of the types of proteins, you can take a look at this article: http://sportsnutritioninsider.insidefitn...drolysates .


I think this sounds right. It will take some time to neutralize the hormones because they all effect each other. I think detoxifying would be great to help this, and once your hormones are back to the way they were before you started taking PM, start with increasing the Progesterone levels.


Interesting! This may have been very good for you...


If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, it is L-5-hydroxytryptophan. I actually used to have the same sleep problem! But now I have a different sleep problem, where I fall asleep frequently, hard, and fast. Exercise is what made the change for me. I cannot stay up late even if I wanted to, because my body forces me to shut down so that it can repair my muscles. Yes, I will fall asleep in random places without warning because of this!

Mild hyperprolactinemia[24] did you notice that tim @timarie

That is interesting. Since I will admit that I do not know that much about it myself, I would advise you to ask Tibetan about this, since it was she who said:

Vitex is questionable since its effects are complexed. It may actually help you, but if its raising your prolactin levels, it may compete with progesterone, but that's the thing, we don't know what's causing your Low P levels.

If you notice, she did say it MAY help you, but since we don't know for sure what is lowering your Progesterone levels, it is best not to take the risk of increasing your prolactin as it may potentially make it worse. This is what I understood from what she wrote. It would be safer at this point to stay away from it, just until you can get your hormones a little more balanced again.

I hope that helps!

oh tim , you did a lot of work for me thanks a lot for your time, information and every thing .
you clarified many things for me especially about protein shakes, actually i don't believe you consumed all of that time to tell me all your experience with it ,
and you know tim I'm trying to get use of every thing available, it means i'm searching a lot a trusted referenced information and when i found an information that not trusted or an opinion that I've a doubt about i make a thread here and ask about it . i don't think that i'm smart or my research is enough for me and you know something i'm a pharmacist but i didn't study from along time so i just need a refreshment information but, i know where to get the reliable information Whether from references or an informed person like tibetan, gbabe and you in protein shakes and nutrition of course
but i don't like people to just tell me i'm wrong or we did advice you with the counter once before, when i'm asking about something that is different from old information , you know theories changes over the time or maybe we think in one direction all the time and this bad we must have open minds that Accommodates for the Opposite theories even, if we want to get use of every thing rightly .

With regard to the Egyptian recipe with flaxseed oil, sadly i prefer to stay away from a little while now

about the hormone controlling my sleep cycle i think it's exactly what you mentioned

anyway thanks a lot i'll absolutely stick to ON and i did my order but i didn't receive it yet .

[timarie]

oh tim , you did a lot of work for me thanks a lot for your time, information and every thing .
you clarified many things for me especially about protein shakes, actually i don't believe you consumed all of that time to tell me all your experience with it ,

It was no problem at all really, didn't take me that long to write

and you know tim I'm trying to get use of every thing available, it means i'm searching a lot a trusted referenced information and when i found an information that not trusted or an opinion that I've a doubt about i make a thread here and ask about it . i don't think that i'm smart or my research is enough for me and you know something i'm a pharmacist but i didn't study from along time so i just need a refreshment information but, i know where to get the reliable information Whether from references or an informed person like tibetan, gbabe and you in protein shakes and nutrition of course
but i don't like people to just tell me i'm wrong or we did advice you with the counter once before, when i'm asking about something that is different from old information , you know theories changes over the time or maybe we think in one direction all the time and this bad we must have open minds that Accommodates for the Opposite theories even, if we want to get use of every thing rightly .

Ah, I understand now... see, Abi means well. She wants to help, but she has absolutely NO social etiquette and comes off as rude sometimes, but she really does not mean it. And I am not sure if I am included in that but, if I am, I apologize if I came off that way as I was only trying to clarify things for you, as I have said in my most recent posts.

As for people saying that "we did advise you with that before" when you ask the same thing again but in different ways-- I completely understand your evolving knowledge changing the possibility of something working or not. I am currently doing the same with trying to find the best herb for raising prolactin for me, to go along with my BO and antiandrogens. I have been told a couple things, but need to evaluate all the information that is presented to me, so I know exactly what you mean. I am asking these more experienced people why they say what they have to say about it, and try to make the most sense of it for myself. As for the phytoestrogens, we all were on different pages with understanding where you were going with that: Tibetan saw you going away from the original estrogen increasing or phtyoestrogenic herbs and thought you were just talking about the very weak phytos in food, but I personally saw you mention the other stronger herbs again, so I thought you were hoping your new theories applied to them too. I think there was a lot of misunderstanding going on...! No one was underestimating you. Actually I was glad to see you doing your own research as you were! Just know, we were all just trying to help

anyway thanks a lot i'll absolutely stick to ON and i did my order but i didn't receive it yet .

Ok! Which protein powder by ON did you go with? Good luck with everything!

[lora]

no problem tim, you were always kind and helpful .
i chose whey gold standard as whey isolate isn't available now but there is something i still don't like about the three types from ON , it contains sucrose and i don't prefer artificial sweeteners , i don't think it's suitable for my E dominance case to use artificial things .

[timarie]

no problem tim, you were always kind and helpful .
i chose whey gold standard as whey isolate isn't available now but there is something i still don't like about the three types from ON , it contains sucrose and i don't prefer artificial sweeteners , i don't think it's suitable for my E dominance case to use artificial things .

Oh duh, I forgot that it does say that they are currently out of stock of the 100% Whey Isolate... sorry about that!

Well, if having a protein powder without artificial sweeteners is a priority concern for you, Optimum Nutrition has a "Naturals" protein powder line. Check out the following:
• Natural 100% Whey Gold Standard http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-202.html
• 100% Oats & Whey http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-265.html
• Natural Pro Complex http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-268.html (I'd recommend taking one leveled scoop if you choose to go with this protein powder, as a whole serving [which is two rounded scoops] has more than double the amount of protein you would be able to digest in 2 hours time... so you could get 55+ servings out of one container of this protein powder).

The Natural 100% Whey Gold Standard is the most affordable option of the three whey powders. I also think it is pretty cool because, in addition to Isolates being the first ingredient on the whey blend ingredient list, hydrolyzed whey (listed as "whey peptides") is in the blend! 100% Oats & Whey is cool because it has oats in it which is a great source of fiber (although I have seen oats listed as a raiser of prolactin-- I do not think that oats raise prolactin that much to be too concerning, but you may still want to look into it a bit more). And Natural Pro Complex is awesome because it has a LOT of everything that you need, but honestly considering what I know to be your needs and concerns, it is probably a bit unnecessary for you (this is probably too much for me, too! probably meant for competitive body and figure builders) and certainly shows in the price . So, given what I understand to be what you need, I think the Natural 100% Whey Gold Standard would be the best choice for you if you want to stay with Optimum Nutrition

Hope that helps!

[lora]

no problem tim, you were always kind and helpful .
i chose whey gold standard as whey isolate isn't available now but there is something i still don't like about the three types from ON , it contains sucrose and i don't prefer artificial sweeteners , i don't think it's suitable for my E dominance case to use artificial things .

Oh duh, I forgot that it does say that they are currently out of stock of the 100% Whey Isolate... sorry about that!

Well, if having a protein powder without artificial sweeteners is a priority concern for you, Optimum Nutrition has a "Naturals" protein powder line. Check out the following:
• Natural 100% Whey Gold Standard http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-202.html
• 100% Oats & Whey http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-265.html
• Natural Pro Complex http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products...p-268.html (I'd recommend taking one leveled scoop if you choose to go with this protein powder, as a whole serving [which is two rounded scoops] has more than double the amount of protein you would be able to digest in 2 hours time... so you could get 55+ servings out of one container of this protein powder).

The Natural 100% Whey Gold Standard is the most affordable option of the three whey powders. I also think it is pretty cool because, in addition to Isolates being the first ingredient on the whey blend ingredient list, hydrolyzed whey (listed as "whey peptides") is in the blend! 100% Oats & Whey is cool because it has oats in it which is a great source of fiber (although I have seen oats listed as a raiser of prolactin-- I do not think that oats raise prolactin that much to be too concerning, but you may still want to look into it a bit more). And Natural Pro Complex is awesome because it has a LOT of everything that you need, but honestly considering what I know to be your needs and concerns, it is probably a bit unnecessary for you (this is probably too much for me, too! probably meant for competitive body and figure builders) and certainly shows in the price . So, given what I understand to be what you need, I think the Natural 100% Whey Gold Standard would be the best choice for you if you want to stay with Optimum Nutrition

Hope that helps!

It helps a lot actually , thanks so much ,
i'm gonna check those and choose one of them .
you are all what i need in protein powder