[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Isabelle..

I read the high progesterone toxicty thingy.. and I have very few just the acne and chin hair but not bad..but last week I had almost all of them... what is you outlook on that..maybe since I reduced my phyto's it leveled..good readings too helping me understand to pay attention to each cycle...now I am thinking I dont need anything extra just keep my PM at a good cycle..what do you think..

Ok.. last week I did that online test and it is pretty accuret sp?..last week I was up and down with symptoms..I believe at some point I was extremely high in estro which made me def. in progest..then as days went on and after reading toxicty sp? of progest..I think I my hormones where going wacky..now I took it today and since last week I have been lowering PM and BS and I took the test today and I have just about no symptome and out of the ones I do have it says I have excess estro (only had 1 symptom of that) and my cortisol (adrenals) are def..which I have been thinking for a while.. can have a wacky hormonal imbalance put fatique on the adrenals plus I have been stressing a little and not getting good enough sleep..and maca is suppose to help adrenals..so I am thinking since my period is suppose to come in 2 days drop PM and BS (not taking BS now anyway) until my period starts and if it doesnt start by the 5th or 6th start PM back up or wait till it starts and if it doesnt start go by my symptoms to start it again period or not..dont want to loose progress..what do you think..but keep taking maca..wondering if it is balancing me out....

I am so sorry..how have you been...how is your growth coming along..

[Isabelle]

Thanks Susan,

I wasn't feeling much lately. Yesterday, I increased hops, and got some shoots in the right one. Today I increased FG, no effect yet. Again more hops tonight. Wait and see.

I think it's good that you were progesterone dominant in the second half of your cycle (if it becomes too bad, take less BS). It's also good that you were estrogen dominant before that. It just means your cycle is working.

No BS before day 12 now. PM: 1 is OK, 0 is also OK. Increase PM after your period.

In my post from yesterday afternoon, I linked an article that says maca prevented a testosterone excess that they tried to trigger with testosterone anthenate. So there is something true about a balancing effect. I have done some reading on maca, and found that the way Prettymama took it, in 6 week ramps, is probably best. Four week cycles are too short for maca. It builds its effect over a longer period.

[beachbumbythesea]

Thanks Susan,

I wasn't feeling much lately. Yesterday, I increased hops, and got some shoots in the right one. Today I increased FG, no effect yet. Again more hops tonight. Wait and see.

I think it's good that you were progesterone dominant in the second half of your cycle (if it becomes too bad, take less BS). It's also good that you were estrogen dominant before that. It just means your cycle is working.

No BS before day 12 now. PM: 1 is OK, 0 is also OK. Increase PM after your period.

In my post from yesterday afternoon, I linked an article that says maca prevented a testosterone excess that they tried to trigger with testosterone anthenate. So there is something true about a balancing effect. I have done some reading on maca, and found that the way Prettymama took it, in 6 week ramps, is probably best. Four week cycles are too short for maca. It builds its effect over a longer period.

Sounds like hops agrees with you..hey is it close to bedtime for ..what time is there in the NL..

Ok..thank you ...that is good to know that what was going on last few weeks was for the good..the girls feel kind of deflated..the strange thing is each time I take maca I get some tingling but not like when I first started..but still good..and I agree with what your saying about maca ...what I posted in that maca thread in that last paragraph was saying how it helps the adrenals and hypothalamus sp? and something else which controls hormones in some way (signals or something)..I am going to take just maca today..I may even add a 5th pill today and see what happens..just a gut feeling..experimenting experimenting...geeeshh

[Isabelle]

Good morning Susan,

You're doing great. The deflated feeling will continue up to day 5. Then the girls will pick up again.

Your writing doesn't look like you have bad PMS. Maybe maca helps there too. I really wonder if you'll be on time. I know there's also herbs for PMS and herbs for cramps. But I don't know if they're good for NBE.

I also try to adjust daily to how I feel and to the girl talk. The right one said a few shoots after more hops last night. So I'll continue to gently up maca, FG and hops. I still have a feeling my hops stash is moving faster than 2,000 mg a day. I'll just calculate average consumption after I run out. I tried green tea again on the first, but that was only one day.

The girls look the same size as before my break. At one month in, that's not bad. Tape day is Monday. Not measuring or weighing now. Don't want a measuring tape fetish

[Isabelle]

PM starters write they feel "much better". I have been asking around about how exactly they feel. Pansy-Mae and IdreamofD and Susan gave me the level of detail I was looking for. It's all in four posts, and the link in the fourth post:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8982&pid=33042#pid33042

They are enthousiastic about immediate benefits of higher estrogen (skin, hair, nails, lubrication), and about two benefits that are normally associated with higher progesterone: clearer thinking and improved mood.

PM webshops list improved mood among benefits. So I wondered what PM does about mood.

I found only one scientific study: 50 mg PM decreased mood instability in postmenopausal women after 1, 3, 6 months:
http://www.mat.or.th/journal/files/Vol90...0_6365.pdf
http://www.puresterol.com/articles/Phase%20I.pdf
http://www.puresterol.com/articles/2004%...uraria.pdf
The study had no placebo control group. So it's possible that what they saw is just the emotional benefit of doing something about the seven dwarfs of menopause

In searching scientific literature, it's not enough to google "pueraria mirifica". The botanical name of PM is "Pueraria candollei var. mirifica" or "Pueraria candollei var. mirifica A Shaw.". So google "Pueraria" without specifying "mirifica". Then weed out all the hits on kudzu.

Root cultures of P. candollei decrease malondialdehyde:
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhs/...2/_article
That can have an immediate benefit in joints:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malondialdehyde
IdreamofD and Susan enjoyed improvements in joint pains.

In the above study on mood, there was still improvement between 3 and 6 months in on PM. This study suggests you may have to wait five months for the full benefits:
PM increases serum estradiol after five months on a low dose (50-100 mg):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971532

[Isabelle]

I worry about the steady improvement of mood instability in postmenopausal women on PM, after 1, 3, and 6 months. When I combine that with estradiol peaking in the fifth month on PM, it looks like a trap.

I now understand Chrissie's warnings a lot better. A married father with boobie greed gets into a continually better mood on PM. By the time estradiol really kicks in, and he starts seeing what PM is doing to his body and to his life, it's too late. He's already far too enthousiastic about it to really care.

OK is it just paranoid me, or did it happen already

[Isabelle]

I haven't been feeling a lot. A few very little shoots after increasing hops over the last two days. Today I increased it again, to the two tablespoons I used to measure a week ago. What I used during the last week was definitely less.

I also have oily skin for the last three days, and I lose more hair. Those are two more signs that I should increase hops, since my only anti-androgen is in the hops.

I should be able to go up to three tablespoons of dried hops flowers, 3,000 mg, before I stall. But if a few days on two neatly measured tablespoons don't help, I'll drop hops for two days. Susan came up with the idea to trace back my steps to what worked, or else to add something to my program:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8440&pid=33441#pid33441
Skipping hops for two days helped before:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=31096#pid31096

After learning so much about cycling lately, I know I shouldn't be taking the same dose every day. It's time to bump them up and down a little more.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey lady,

Ok according to my cycle I should be low in estrogen and progest..right..well I too had oily skin too the past few days..today is better..but the equates to androgens..estro must be going back up..

I was just thinking the same thing with the cycling too.. In the begining of doing NBE I was like ahhh just take the herbs, change diet, supps.. well find out how important the cycling is..and realized that I changed all three at once and I believe my body was overload ...

Ah...I am afraid to take hops..just something in my gut.. maybe because I associate with beer and beer breaks me out..but beer is fermented and most fermented foods break me out.. so maybe hops wouldnt..Does hops have estrogen or progesterone ..

Tracing back..reason I mentioned that..one first thing that popped in my head and 2 I was thinking back on how when I was taking FG before I got my PM..I was feeling some good tingling..so was thinking of taking that as my second pill according to the chart you made me..if I have to add SP then I will..I will keep maca in the picture too..I like maca for alot of reasons..haha thinking the booty will get kinda big..

So your bottomline is Hops again but more of it..lets see what happens..

[Isabelle]

Hops is only phyto-estrogen and anti-androgen. No phyto-progestins, and it doesn't do anything about prolactin either. I do not use progestins, even leave the thyme and the oregano and the turmeric alone now.

I have the fenugreek as a galactogogue (contains galactomannan, and that's supposed to increase prolactin), and to improve insulin sensitivity and to increase insulin. Is there fenugreek in Breast Success?

[beachbumbythesea]

Hops is only phyto-estrogen and anti-androgen. No phyto-progestins, and it doesn't do anything about prolactin either. I do not use progestins, even leave the thyme and the oregano and the turmeric alone now.

Ok it does have phyto's....question I put turmeric in my chicken broth when I was making it ...didt it much but last week I think I ate about 3 cups worth..can cooking like that make it strong effects of progestins..maybe I should eat the broth only during that part of my cycle if so what part is that ...near the end..

I have the fenugreek as a galactogogue (contains galactomannan, and that's supposed to increase prolactin), and to improve insulin sensitivity and to increase insulin. Is there fenugreek in Breast Success?

Ok it does have prolactin in FG...Yes BS has it:
3 pills equates to this amount..meaning I have to taking 3 pills for this amount of each herb in BS:

FG- 219 mg
SP- 168 mg
Fennel- 162 mg
L-Tyrosine- 135 mg
Mexican Wild Yam- 96 mg
Pacific Kelp- 90 mg
Damiana- 51 mg
Dong Quai- 48 mg
Motherwart- 48 mg
Black Cohosh- 45 mg
Oat grass- 42 mg
Blessed Thisle- 39 mg
Hops- 30 mg

So taking all three pills gives me the above amounts..

Now if I take FG after they run out or in addition..I am thinking that PM and FG have didnt phyto's right..if so then they would fight over each others strength.