[Isabelle]

Hi,

Just a quick update: I'm OK, just busy working on my house and garden and job hunt and cleaning up old paperwork and other clutter. Losing weight rapidly, and I haven't picked up the tape yet.

A few answers:

rebel.diva69, siriporn ro-bust cream will not interfere with your other herbs, but it won't do much either.

Brilaw,
-Did you grow from BreastGro? Yes, from nothing to B.
-Can BreastGro be used with other herbs (i.e. red clover, fenugreek, wild yam and saw palmetto)? It really misses fenugreek: I took that with it.
-Did you have any unusual side effects? Yes, Sleepiness and depression.
-How long did you take it before you had signs of growth and actual growth? Don't remember exactly, but it was several months at least, if not a year.
-Do you think that BreastGro is worth the money? Right now, yes, but you can still get the dry powdered herbs separately for half the price.

Thank you, Lenneth,

And yes, Alexis, liquid hops extracts in alcohol do not make you as sleepy as the herb itself.

[JustintoMe]

Thanks for coming back Isabelle, I must say I was a little worried.
Congrats on shedding pounds!
I'm thinking about either giving hops or PM a try, not sure yet but I'm leaning towards hops + PM cream/serum - do you think that would be phytoestrogen overload with my current program (FG, GB, RC, minimal SP and WY)?

[karen]

I've always been an experimenter. Trying different Herbs and different amounts. I know that there were times that I had tried really high amounts to see if that made me grow faster. Many times it seemed to have a reverse effect. (just a reminder that I take an artificial Testosterone and I CAN'T stall ... at least not in the usual way because my Testosterone in applied in a gel)

Well I've doing lots of reading lately as well as trying to find a balanced "reasonable" program. I always read about the important of Ramping Up. I've also been reading a bunch of information put together by Wahaika. Here's my latest thoughts ... I'd love to hear other opinions ....

I started to put together a “ramp up” spreadsheet last night. I’m still wondering if maybe there is not only LH/FSH to regulate hormones but also mechanisms that regulate the amount of Aromatase and/or 5 alpha reductase that the body produces. And that as Estrogens or DHT change so does the amount of enzymes that your body produces to try and maintain that “balance”. So if my Estrogen level is high, then my body makes less aromatase which in turn converts less of my Testosterone to Estrogen to compensate. And if I block too much 5 alpha reductase and my DHT Levels go real low then my body makes more to try and increase the DHT in my body. So there may be really several ways to stall and it’s all about finding the “place” where Estrogen is “Higher” but not high enough to reduce the production of aromatase, and DHT is “Lower” but not low enough to increase the production of 5 alpha reductase … and on top of that the TOTAL Hormone Levels need to be “in the zone” where your body produces the maximum amount without hitting the trigger point where your body cuts back on them (LH/FSH).

This may be why so many people try different programs without success. Not because they are using Herbs that are NOT the right ones … but that they haven’t found their zone. When one thinks they a program isn’t working the natural thing to do is to increase the amount of herbs that you take … I know that’s what I think. But maybe we really need to reduce some things … to find that zone. That is what I am trying now. Guess we’ll see.

I don't think Isabelle will mind the "flow of information" while she's fixing up her house ..... hope to see you soon Isabelle

Karen

[lostacres6]

It's just what I need - to find my zone. After 26 mo of experimenting with "everything," I haven't found it yet. Please keep all of us informed.
Thanks

[Coco2772]

Hi Isabelle, earlier you said that if you don't smell like maple then you're not taking enough fenugreek. I'm taking 3000mg/ day along with saw palmetto and wild yam, all at the same amounts. Also drinking fennel tea. Can I up the dose of fenugreek? I have been on this routine for almost a month. I'm 5'4" and 135lbs and I'm a 32C. Also, can I use a tincture (wild yam) on my breasts?

[jesse191]

Hello everyone

I'm a Red Clover user, been taking 2.5mg (promensil) for a month now, seems like i've got a growth of 1cm (not sure if its a good start).

Since I'm thinking to start flaxseed oil and fenugreek, but not sure which to start first, can anyone give me some advice?

Further, I found this article regarding isoflavones and lignans, not sure if it's useful for you all here > http://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/99-02/pdf/nr_ch5.pdf

[Alexis]

I know that there were times that I had tried really high amounts to see if that made me grow faster. Many times it seemed to have a reverse effect.

I can relate to that.

[karen]

I'm on a pretty crazy regime right now but it seems to be working .... remember that I use a Testosterone Gel to replace low T levels ... so things may need to be "massaged" for you ... I like the fact that I can alter any one herb to "tweak" the result.

This is today ....

4:40 AM 4/610 mg Fenugreek
4:40 AM 4/480 mg Fennel
4:40 AM 2/500 mg Red Clover
4:40 AM 2/425 mg Wild Yam 4:40 AM 1/450 mg Licorice
4:40 AM 3/160 mg Standardized Saw Palmetto
5:50 AM 1 ½ Tubes Testim

11:30 AM 4/610 mg Fenugreek
11:30 AM 4/480 mg Fennel
11:30 AM 2/500 mg Red Clover
11:30 AM 2/425 mg Wild Yam
11:30 AM 1/450 mg Licorice
11:30 AM 2/160 mg Standardized Saw Palmetto

5:30 PM 4/610 mg Fenugreek
5:30 PM 4/480 mg Fennel
5:30 PM 2/500 mg Red Clover
5:30 PM 2/425 mg Wild Yam
5:30 PM 1/450 mg Licorice
5:30 PM 1/160 mg Standardized Saw Palmetto

7:30 PM 2/500 mg GABA (1,000 mg)
7:30 PM 1/1300 mg Borage Oil

I used to use Hops Extract but it was real expensive ... so what the heck ... I changed

karen

[Isabelle]

Wow Karen,

That's quite a list. I'm not really changing anything in my program right now, and breast size seems to be going up and down with weight.

Thank you Brilaw,

Hops or PM could add to the RC to cause a stall, so be careful with doses.

Welcome Coco2772,

Technically, you can't stall on fenugreek. I grew well on 5,000 mg for six months.

Hi jesse191,

I'd always start fenugreek first: it's a trouble free herb for most people.

[JustintoMe]

Thanks for the info Isabelle!